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You also don't apparently win them with Jay Cutler and a dominant defense so...well...what's the point of keeping Cutler again?
Teddy KGB
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To see if you can win one with Jay Cutler and a dominant offense? Ya know, because he's actually a Quarterback and not a linebacker?
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We've already seen that. It doesn't work.
In fact, with Jay Cutler and a dominant near record scoring defense you missed the playoffs.
My mistake. Misread.What makes you think the offense will be dominant? What gives you any idea Cutler can lead a dominant offense?
Last time Cutler lead a good offense his team missed the playoffs and didn't even finish over .500
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*Insert nebulous talent argument here*
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TeddyKGB said:
Along with what Rory said, isn't that pretty much what Cutler is at this point in his career? A one year wonder off a 2008 PB birth? So Teddy KGB has beef with Cutler supporters too?
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Bottom of the top 3rd at worst? that is fairly delusional if you really look at it. I would say bottom of the top 3rd at best.
Keep in mind, your qualifier is "at worst"..... even if you consider the past 4 years worst case, you can put him solidly behind Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Ryan, Manning2, Schaub, Romo, Rivers, Roethlisberger.... Those are all guys who have outperformed Cutler every year for the most part. There is really no arguing that point.
A heavy case can be made for Flacco being better, and he will seperate himself from the middle of the pack this year.
Then you have Luck, Wilson, RG3, and Kaepernick that may very well continue to be just as good as they were last year.
Stafford with a year closer to 2011 than 2012 would be a shoe in as the better player as well... apples to apples I currently give stafford the edge for 2 reasons- stafford with 4 years in the league had a season far and away better than Cutlers best and he followed it up with a lesser season that was on par with Cutlers best.
That is a list of 16 guys that have been undoubtedly better than Cutler the last few years, so i believe that Cutler as it stands is treading water in the newton, fitzpatrick, Bradford, Freeman, Smith, Ponder group. At worst he falls behind those guys.
It is hard to hear that as a bears fan but all excuses aside and just looking at a production standpiont, that is where he is. at the end of the day, we are talking about a 7 year vet that has never hit the 2-1 int to td ratio, has never had a 30 plus td season (nor has he ever been on pace to) and additionally, he has not shown that he can go in to game manager mode to minimize the turnovers and keep a lead safe.
As for franchising him, based on the situation of this team, I go the exact opposite way. Had lovie and Co. been extended (tice doesn't factor in- take or leave him given the bears OC hiring history) i could see an argument for keeping Cutler around a year when drafting a rookie. Lovie does tend to be able to get the most out of the D, so there was always hope for a defensive season like last year or 2010.
The Reality of the Bears situation is this- The Packers have a stranglehold on the division, the best passer in the league, and a penchant for being able to fill the voids of FA losses. There is the very real nightmare scenario that they actually find a running back that is functional.... and if the find one that is actually decent the Packers are going to be unstoppable.
The Vikings are up and comers, if ponder improves (which I actually believe he will this year) they become a scary team. If ponder hits mediocre, the Vikings will be very hard to beat.
The lions are..... the lions. as always, awesome on paper but I have no faith in them.
So in my opinion, I would rather see the this entire new FO take 2013 to evaluate the team and be decisive. If Cutler stinks up the field or continues to produce at the level he has been producing at, fuck the franchise tag- launch him and show the team and the city that you are commited to building a team that will take control of the division. Commit to a new vision and build it.
If he has a good year and you think he can keep it up and finally capitalize on his potential, lock his ass up for 5 years and build around him.
I don't buy the wishy washy "lets keep him here as a safety blanket so we can maybe possibly sneak in to the playoffs" bullshit.
Lovie and Angelo were fired for a reason- their vision did not work and it was time to move the fuck on. since 2006, the Bears have conservatively tweaked the same vision hoping to catch another lucky year but never really making bold moves (sorry- trading for Cutler was not a bold move when it was orton and grossman you were replacing. they could have traded them for a new gatorade bucket and it would have been an improvement).
The LAST thing i want to see is an entire new front office with fresh ideas piss away the opportunity to build a modern NFL team and continue to tweak the lovie-angelo vision in hopes of a wildcard berth.
In 2014, Trestman will have a year of evaluation for what he has got to work with under his belt- at that point I want to see him commit to building his vision for better or worse. Sign Cutler long term or ship him off. period. Anything else is spineless and shows a severe lack of belief in your abilities to assess talent and build a team.
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I'd put Cam Newton ahead of Cutler pretty easily.
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Thats where a person would point to his 4th quarter QBR, which would say there is a chance he could have won the game. I'm not saying that he would have, but during that game I felt that if he was still in we could have won it.
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I don't understand why people think Newton had a down year. He had a year almost as comparable to his rookie year the only stat that had remotely close to a significant drop was his rushing TD's. As far as his passing goes he had a better rating than his rookie year, his TD/Int ratio went up. All in all I think he had almost as good of a year as his rookie season.
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After 14 pages nothing in the Cutler debate changes. Haters gonna hate and Cutler fans are going to continue their posting. It doesn't matter this situation is just about perfect for the Bears. Cutler tears it up, gets along with Trestman & Co., and he's getting a big, long term deal. If he is the QB that the haters think he is its just a matter of time until the Bears have a new QB. Its pretty cut and dried whether or not you are a Cutler fan or not.
As a Bears fan I certainly hope he blows up this year and gets a deal-that most likely means "we're" winning. But also, as a Bears fan, if he languishes then I'm fine with drafting someone or giving a couple of FAs a shot. That said, anyone want Josh Freeman or Mark Sanchez?
As a Bears fan I certainly hope he blows up this year and gets a deal-that most likely means "we're" winning. But also, as a Bears fan, if he languishes then I'm fine with drafting someone or giving a couple of FAs a shot. That said, anyone want Josh Freeman or Mark Sanchez?
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See that at least gives you a leg to stand on, and gives merit to saying if he were in you feel we could have won. My point was Cutler wasn't having a good game, the weather was a near monsoon so that wasn't helping, and Tice wasn't calling a very good game. As for your 4th quarter QBR, is there anyone who knows or could find out what his 4th quarter QBR is vs teams with a record above .500...or even what his 4th quarter QBr is against defenses ranked in the top 3rd of the league?
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Freeman would be worth a really long look depending on the price tag.
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I could also point you to Aaron Rodgers stellar 4 Qtr passer rating/stat line yet he's seen as a guy that can't close games around here.
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Well to be fair most of the argument has been mainly about whether Cutler should be signed to a long term deal not so much as to whether he is elite or not....or how he compares to Rodgers or any other QB in the league. So this thread at least hasn't been through the ringer like the other topics have.
If Cutler isn't here next year I would take a flyer on Freeman...Sanchez not so much
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What if you could have Cutler or Freeman for about the same price and a relatively short deal?
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What do their 2013's look like?
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This
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I ask because I never watch the Bucs. I've seen some stuff from when he was in the top 100 but that's it. Is he, like Cutler, talented but lacking in decision making and fundamentals?
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Per an NFL Scout in 2011
Big arm. Accuracy can get erratic at times. Turned himself into a really good leader. Works hard. His biggest issue seems to be accuracy.
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Sanchez- no.
Freeman- quite possibly yes.
His 2010 and 2012 are very promising. 52 tds and 23 ints in the 2 years combined, with a 25-6 td-int season in 2010. That is what I want with a passer- low turnovers.
His "down year" in 2012 with 27 tds and 17 ints is better than Cutlers best season of 25 and 18. Cutler has never even gotten close to the 25-6 season Freeman had in 2010.
Keep an eye on Freeman this year... He targeted Jackson too often in 2012 and his completion percentage suffered as a result. With a year of work with Jackson under his belt he will get back to his 2010 form.