Astros To The AL West

[brett05]

Phone is dying. Will have to continue this tomorrow

 

[Rice Cube]

Last year Thome put up

256 BA 15 HR 50 RBI .361 OBP in the AL.

Its not like he was some washed up guy.

He's not, he's a Hall of Famer. But if nobody wants to pay him, he can't play. The Phillies got very lucky with that one, and Thome is the exception to the crappy NL bench player rule.

To be fair, most NL bench players have some value, but there's a reason they are on the bench instead of in the regular lineup. Most NL teams cannot afford to blow $8-10MM on a DH-y type guy to just sit on the bench until his one at-bat comes up.

 

[Jntg4]

Phone is dying. Will have to continue this tomorrow

You have dial-up? That sucks, sorry bro.

 

[Rice Cube]

Phone is dying. Will have to continue this tomorrow

Plug it in :lol:

 

[dabynsky]

I never said there is an advantage over the AL DH. That is something you've pushed incorrectly

fixed!

Fielders don't pitch why should pitchers bat?

Pitchers terrible batting isn't exactly a weakness. They don't practice it nor should they.
They need to pitch period. It's time NL pitchers pitch to a 9 man lineup not a 6.5 lineup.

AL teams need to stop being severely penalized when playing in an NL park and the advantage an NL team gets when coming to an AL park needs to be removed

That is the quote I was referring to. I don't know how else I am suppose to interpret the statement "the advantage an NL team gets when coming to an AL park" besides meaning that the NL gets an advantage by playing in the AL park.

 

[brett05]

You have dial-up? That sucks, sorry bro.

Plug it in :lol:

You two are hilarious.

 

[brett05]

That is the quote I was referring to. I don't know how else I am suppose to interpret the statement "the advantage an NL team gets when coming to an AL park" besides meaning that the NL gets an advantage by playing in the AL park.

Here is the advantage that the NL team gets. They replace their pitcher with an actual hitter. They get something. Regardless of how small they get something. And no team should ever get something that both teams don't get.

I realized this after my phone died last night and I think this will finally clear it all up for you all. Yes the AL has a DH that makes 10-20% of the team's overall payroll. Almost certainly not the best move for the NL to keep a guy like that on the bench. Totally agree with you. But let's keep following this. Now the team salaries on average are basically the same. So my rhetorical question to you is "Show me the money!" What the NL has that the AL can't is spend that money on pitching. So that 10-20% that the NL has is never given up, where an AL team does give it up when they hit an NL park. Like I said, the NL gets an advantage by being better then their everyday lineup when they hit an AL park. The AL never gets an advantage versus the norm and only lose when they hit an NL park.

Let's just be fair as I suggested several posts earlier.

 

[Rice Cube]

Here is the advantage that the NL team gets. They replace their pitcher with an actual hitter. They get something. Regardless of how small they get something. And no team should ever get something that both teams don't get.

I realized this after my phone died last night and I think this will finally clear it all up for you all. Yes the AL has a DH that makes 10-20% of the team's overall payroll. Almost certainly not the best move for the NL to keep a guy like that on the bench. Totally agree with you. But let's keep following this. Now the team salaries on average are basically the same. So my rhetorical question to you is "Show me the money!" What the NL has that the AL can't is spend that money on pitching. So that 10-20% that the NL has is never given up, where an AL team does give it up when they hit an NL park. Like I said, the NL gets an advantage by being better then their everyday lineup when they hit an AL park. The AL never gets an advantage versus the norm and only lose when they hit an NL park.

Let's just be fair as I suggested several posts earlier.

I think the salary is spent towards relievers and better bench guys rather than just a guy who can hit, but I don't really know. DH with a Victor Martinez or a David Ortiz is probably giving the AL a bit of an advantage over DHing with a Ryan Spilborghs or whatever random scrub the Cubs want to play that day though

 

[brett05]

And a Roy Halladay is better than a Mark Buerhle

 

[Rice Cube]

And a Roy Halladay is better than a Mark Buerhle

Guess who has the home run though :lol:

I am not saying you guys are wrong, but if all things were equal, this is a minor issue and probably even more so than before. In the World Series, the NL teams have to figure out who their DH is because he's likely going to suck compared to the AL option. The AL teams have to figure out how to hide their DH in the field. It's all a matter of who is the most creative. It's been discussed to death but I don't think the "no DH" thing should be used as a crutch for AL teams.

 

[dabynsky]

Here is the advantage that the NL team gets. They replace their pitcher with an actual hitter. They get something. Regardless of how small they get something. And no team should ever get something that both teams don't get.

I realized this after my phone died last night and I think this will finally clear it all up for you all. Yes the AL has a DH that makes 10-20% of the team's overall payroll. Almost certainly not the best move for the NL to keep a guy like that on the bench. Totally agree with you. But let's keep following this. Now the team salaries on average are basically the same. So my rhetorical question to you is "Show me the money!" What the NL has that the AL can't is spend that money on pitching. So that 10-20% that the NL has is never given up, where an AL team does give it up when they hit an NL park. Like I said, the NL gets an advantage by being better then their everyday lineup when they hit an AL park. The AL never gets an advantage versus the norm and only lose when they hit an NL park.

Let's just be fair as I suggested several posts earlier.

The NL may gain something small in comparison to their lineup in an NL park, but that comparison doesn't matter in practice because both teams play by the same rules during the game. So yes in theory the NL "gains" something, but in practice what the NL gains is a disadvantage between the player they get to add to their lineup compared to the player the AL team carries for the season (in most case).

 

[brett05]

The NL may gain something small in comparison to their lineup in an NL park, but that comparison doesn't matter in practice because both teams play by the same rules during the game. So yes in theory the NL "gains" something, but in practice what the NL gains is a disadvantage between the player they get to add to their lineup compared to the player the AL team carries for the season (in most case).

And the AL teams gets a disadvantage by facing better pitching

 

[brett05]

I think the salary is spent towards relievers and better bench guys rather than just a guy who can hit, but I don't really know. DH with a Victor Martinez or a David Ortiz is probably giving the AL a bit of an advantage over DHing with a Ryan Spilborghs or whatever random scrub the Cubs want to play that day though

Wait. The talk here has been bench guys aren't much better than pitchers bat wise. You can't have it both ways

 

[dabynsky]

Wait. The talk here has been bench guys aren't much better than pitchers bat wise. You can't have it both ways

The talk was that bench guys aren't as good as hitters as full time AL DHs.

 

[Rice Cube]

And the AL teams gets a disadvantage by facing better pitching

For the most part this is not true. Even if you're an AL team having to face the Phillies, that's just one series and the rest of the interleague slate you get to face off against anemic offenses and not-better-than-their-AL-counterparts pitching.

I am arguing from the standpoint of assuming that all teams being equal. I think you guys had complained because we weren't, but now it seems the argument has shifted due to your concession that some things really aren't equal.

 

[brett05]

The talk was that bench guys aren't as good as hitters as full time AL DHs.

That is what you've wanted it to be but that was never the conversation. It's a no brainer statement

 

[nickofypres]

This is still going on?

 

[brett05]

For the most part this is not true. Even if you're an AL team having to face the Phillies, that's just one series and the rest of the interleague slate you get to face off against anemic offenses and not-better-than-their-AL-counterparts pitching.

I am arguing from the standpoint of assuming that all teams being equal. I think you guys had complained because we weren't, but now it seems the argument has shifted due to your concession that some things really aren't equal.

you never Lose 10-20% of your salary in a game. We do. You miss that point

 

[Rice Cube]

That is what you've wanted it to be but that was never the conversation. It's a no brainer statement

It's also one of the reasons why the perceived AL advantage isn't as big as it seems. So that's why it entered the conversation and must be an integral part of said conversation.

 

[brett05]

This is still going on?

Phone charged!