ATT: LOVIE NUTHUGGERS - please return to reality

[RacerX]

This thread is tired. Where did Lovie not get the most of the continually subpar talent he was given?

Trestman has dominant talent and gives poor results. Lovie had top ten DVOA defense for all but one year of his tenure. Lot of bums were out there playing their bum hearts out for Lovie. I can't remember a year where anybody expected them to win more than they delivered.

Lovie was like a good jockey riding nags. Nobody is saying he was a great coach, a great coach would have taken more control on offense but he was good and far from the problem on the team.

What makes you so sure those guys were playing for Lovie, as opposed to money and pride?

And, BTW, the current team easily has less talent than the Lovie era teams.

Lovie sucked, and so far so do Tres.

 

[RacerX]

I'm talking about the whole team. The offensive talent was poor at best for most of his run.

Ogun and A.Brown were solid players.
The others were special but not all at once. There is no coach winning without good players but the idea that he was coaching a defensive all star team is a joke. Go through the rosters of those top 10 DVOA defenses. Major Wright, Conte, DJ Moore, Hunter, Bowman, Toeina, Chris Harris, Mark Anderson, and on and on...

Guy is a good coach. He coached execution and discipline and violence of action. It isn't about fooling anybody, the good teams don't trick you,they outplay you.

Completely disagree. Lovie innovated.....nothing at all. Zero involvement in the O and SP, and on D he knows only one scheme which he did not originate. He coached it well, like the good DC that he is, but otherwise I've seen nothing from him that I would expect in a quality HC.

His lining up the same game plan with no changes pre-game and no changes intra-game, is a product of his absolute inability to strategize and to adapt. His BS of getting off the bus running, LOLOLOLOLOLOL, especially when Ced was at 3.2 YPC which was lowest for any NFL starter and our Forrest Gump of a HC was blathering on about running. Embarrassing.

Contrast his full-Special person approach with that of Bellichick, he has repeatedly stated (should be obvious) that they tweak their game-plan and tactics each week in an effort to take advantage of the opposing team's apparent weaknesses. Brilliant, right? Or, would you prefer no adaptation and more Lovie dogma?

BTW, Tres is also crap it seems, the negative feelings about these two coaches are not mutually exclusive.

 

[SlickWilly]

You don't seem very knowledgable or experienced with these type of statistics. There is a huge difference in a winning of .604 versus .500, especially over a long period of time. For example, in baseball and .604 percentage is phenomenal and .500 is average. Of course, your answer to this will be this isn't baseball, lol.

You might want to spend a bit more time learning about this stuff. Look at the history of the NFL, and they very few coaches with a winning percentage of over .600 and their HOF names. You might be surprised as well to see some of the greatest coaches ever between .500 and .600. Think before you post.

You used to be a good poster. Now you're just a crybaby, whiney dick. With the some of the things you've said in these posts regarding Lovie, you sure as hell shouldn't be telling anyone to think before they post.

 

[JDB_219]

Completely disagree. Lovie innovated.....nothing at all. Zero involvement in the O and SP, and on D he knows only one scheme which he did not originate. He coached it well, like the good DC that he is, but otherwise I've seen nothing from him that I would expect in a quality HC.


BTW, Tres is also crap it seems, the negative feelings about these two coaches are not mutually exclusive.

I agree that one can and should evaluate the two coaches only on their own merit and not in comparison.

The innovation stuff is silly and meaningless. What was innovative about the Giants teams that took out the Pats twice? They put guys out on the field and physically whipped the Pats upfront.

You know Lovie a played different schemes when needed, It is just lazy and uninformed to say otherwise. I think you know better but are playing a role.

 

[Tjodalv]

You know Lovie a played different schemes when needed, It is just lazy and uninformed to say otherwise. I think you know better but are playing a role.

Running different plays is not the same thing as running different schemes, talk about uninformed. Lovie ran nothing other than a 1-gap 4-3, if you have some evidence of him straying from that I'm sure we'd all love to see it.

 

[JDB_219]

Running different plays is not the same thing as running different schemes, talk about uninformed. Lovie ran nothing other than a 1-gap 4-3, if you have some evidence of him straying from that I'm sure we'd all love to see it.

I was referring to coverage schemes. Most complaints seem to be about coverage, hardly anyone was complaining about the 4-3 under Lovie anytime after Peppers arrived. Do you have a problem with the 4-3 one gap?

 

[Tjodalv]

I was referring to coverage schemes. Most complaints seem to be about coverage, hardly anyone was complaining about the 4-3 under Lovie anytime after Peppers arrived. Do you have a problem with the 4-3 one gap?

No, but running different coverages does not conflate to running different schemes. Those are two completely separate things; no one says that a D coordinator runs X-scheme and is talking about coverage since every coverage is played in every scheme to varying degrees.

 

[FatBabiesHaveNoPride]

Strategically leaving out the season that he went 10-6 and did not make the playoffs. Any other year, your numbers would then be 4 out of 9 playoffs, which is great.

The more I re-read this post, the more I giggle.

I didn't 'strategically' leave anything out. Kinda-sortas-shouldas don't count. The reality is the 2012 team started 7-1 and shit the bed afterwards - including the defense getting embarrassed in SF and the Seattle game (read option Russell Wilson coming out party). 'Almost made' doesn't count. 'Any other year' doesn't count.

The REALITY is that Lovie made the playoffs 3 times in 9 season. He made the playoffs once in the final 6 years of his tenure. His teams finished 3rd or 4th in the division (in a division that featured the Detroit Lions) 5 of the 9 seasons he coached.

That sucks. Sucks badly.

As for 'great' - the Packers have made the playoffs 6 of the last 7 seasons - soon to be 7 of 8. They've won the NFC North 4 of those seasons, including 3 in a row - soon to be 4 in a row.

THAT is great.

What Lovie accomplished was coaching a partial football team to nothing.

And for those 'he brought us to the only SB we got to in a millennium' - that's something to get excited about? I'd prefer to look at the 6 seasons in which he did NOT get the Bears to post season.

 

[DaaBears]

The more I re-read this post, the more I giggle.

I didn't 'strategically' leave anything out. Kinda-sortas-shouldas don't count. The reality is the 2012 team started 7-1 and shit the bed afterwards - including the defense getting embarrassed in SF and the Seattle game (read option Russell Wilson coming out party). 'Almost made' doesn't count. 'Any other year' doesn't count.

The REALITY is that Lovie made the playoffs 3 times in 9 season. He made the playoffs once in the final 6 years of his tenure. His teams finished 3rd or 4th in the division (in a division that featured the Detroit Lions) 5 of the 9 seasons he coached.

That sucks. Sucks badly.

As for 'great' - the Packers have made the playoffs 6 of the last 7 seasons - soon to be 7 of 8. They've won the NFC North 4 of those seasons, including 3 in a row - soon to be 4 in a row.

THAT is great.

What Lovie accomplished was coaching a partial football team to nothing.

And for those 'he brought us to the only SB we got to in a millennium' - that's something to get excited about? I'd prefer to look at the 6 seasons in which he did NOT get the Bears to post season.

Glad to make you giggle.

 

[FatBabiesHaveNoPride]

Glad to make you giggle.

Of course. Starting the morning with a healthy dump, a strong cup of joe and a giggle is good for the soul.

But just like Lovie in 2012 almost making the playoffs. I almost had breakfast - does that still count?

 

[JDB_219]

Calling an overtime loss to an 11 win team embarrassing seems like a stretch to this observer.

If Cutler is far and away the best QB he ever coached, how can you kill the HC for not making more playoffs?

Name all the playoff teams with worse QB play?

 

[FatBabiesHaveNoPride]

Calling an overtime loss to an 11 win team embarrassing seems like a stretch to this observer.

If Cutler is far and away the best QB he ever coached, how can you kill the HC for not making more playoffs?

Name all the playoff teams with worse QB play?

Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer both won SuperBowls in the 'new-Era'

Starting a season 7-1 and NOT making the playoffs IS embarrassing. Especially when two of the critical loss happened precisely because of the vaunted defense (SF, SEA).

 

[Broc]

Calling an overtime loss to an 11 win team embarrassing seems like a stretch to this observer.

If Cutler is far and away the best QB he ever coached, how can you kill the HC for not making more playoffs?

Hello! McFly! Did you actually watch that game?!? The defense had absolutely no answer for Wilson and Seattle's offense. Cutler throws a hail mary bomb to Marshall to tie the game up and force OT then we all get to watch Russell march it right back down the defenses throat with ease on the first possession of OT for the TD game winner.

It goes right back to what I was saying yesterday: the 2012 D while good was not elite as they were completely dependent on turnovers. That game made it painfully OBVIOUS to anyone with a functioning pair of eyes that the glory days of Lovie's D were over. They were too old and too slow to keep up with Wilson. It was hard to watch Urlacher and Briggs look that slow. The 2005 Urlacher and Briggs don't get embarrassed like that. Those guys would of had no problems tracking Wilson sideline to sideline.

That's why Lovie got the axe, it wasn't due to Cutler. I don't know how many times it needs to be repeated before you people accept it: His defense requires studs at the 3DT, MLB, S, and (WLB too since everything is setup for to them in his system to rack up tackles). By 2012 No Mike Brown, Urlacher and Briggs are old and slow, and Melton while decent was no 2005 Tommie Harris. And due to Jerry's abysmal drafting there simply weren't enough role players around them or good young players in the pipeline to make up for it. It was simply time to move in a different directly completely at the GM and HC level after that.

 

[DaaBears]

I see the nuts are out in full force already this morning. :nervous:

 

[Broc]

I see the nuts are out in full force already this morning. :nervous:

Funny how all you have is ad hominem attacks because you can't refute a single point I've made about Lovie, his system, or players.

 

[DaaBears]

Funny how all you have is ad hominem attacks because you can't refute a single point I've made about Lovie, his system, or players.

LOL, congratulations on stepping forward and including yourself in the category of "nuts".

 

[Broc]

LOL, congratulations on stepping forward and including yourself in the category of "nuts".

Congrats on proving you have absolutely zero to bring to this discussion except for your emotional attachment to Lovie Smith.

Carry on with your ad hominem attacks like it somehow refutes any of the valid points that have been discussed here...

 

[JDB_219]

I actually watched the Seattle game and saw the offense fail to score when given chances. I saw Earl drop a sure TD. I saw Major Wright drop an easy interception that would have ended the game at 14-10.

I also saw all the games where Cutler came up small to keep them from getting win # 11. Green Bay 2, his total QBR was 7.8, after he put up a 19.5 at MN and don't forget GB1 where he put up a 4.1 rating. Jay was clearly terrible in 4 close losses but I blame the defense too.

Losing 13-6 to a hot Texans team, collapse, 13-21 to GB, and 14-21 to MN with a pick six, Lovie's fault.

 

[Bearshomer]

How is allowing 17 points in four quarters "no answer" to an offense? Allowing 17 PPG gives you a top five defense every year.

 

[Broc]

How is allowing 17 points in four quarters "no answer" to an offense? Allowing 17 PPG gives you a top five defense every year.

Sorry I should of been more specific. When I say no answer I'm referring to the 97 yard drive Wilson led to take the lead in the 4th and the 80 yard drive he led in OT to win it and how those relate to the points I've been making about the 2012 D being turnover dependent and not an outright dominate unit like the 2005 D.

The 2005 D wasn't nearly as reliant on turnovers and could make a stop when needed. Conversely if the 2012 D didn't force a turnover they weren't that special and could be easily beaten as clearly evidenced by Wilson that game and Kap 2 weeks prior. Urlacher was so old and broken down by that Seattle game Wilson effectively ended his career.

No Mike Brown, a lame banged up and old Urlacher, an old and slow Briggs, Melton goes down the next week againt Minny. By the end of the season the 2012 D couldn't hold a candle to 2005.

Sure Cutler deserves his share of the blame for the offensive failures during his time here but if you want to blame someone for Lovie's failures here blame Jerry and Lovie for their abysmal drafting and handling of the roster.

IMO if you believe Trestman should be fired now, then Lovie should of been fired after 2004 because that was just as bad of a clusterfuck. Terry Shea fell on the sword for Lovie then just like Tucker should rightfully fall on the sword for Trestman now. IMO Lovie and JA's handling of the offense and QB position during the Grossman era doomed Lovie far more than Cutler did. Any competent HC would not have gone into the 2004 season with Jonathan Quinn and Craig Krenzel as the backup QBs. Any competent HC and GM would of moved on from Grossman after it was apparent he was made of balsa wood and a mental midget and not wasted the 2005 and 2006 defenses. JA and Lovie have no one to blame but themselves for how things turned out here.