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You said it.
You said it.
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Yeah that's what happens when your QB has down syndrome. An offense is only going to be as good as the QB that's running it. When Emery brings in a better QB you'll see Trestman's offense run at it's full potential.
Defense doesn't have that problem which is why even with mental midgets like Conte and Wright manning the secondary Lovie's defense was still able to perform decently in 2011 and 2012. It wasn't elite like it was in 05 and 06 when Mike Brown was back there but it was still solid.
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Too bad his winning % is now .535, 69th all time.
Now if you want to start comparing coaches winning % with just one team they coached, Lovie would fare much worse, but who cares about actual facts.
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What's your point? Has someone argued Trestman is beter than Lovie?
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I'm talking about the whole team. The offensive talent was poor at best for most of his run.
Ogun and A.Brown were solid players.
The others were special but not all at once. There is no coach winning without good players but the idea that he was coaching a defensive all star team is a joke. Go through the rosters of those top 10 DVOA defenses. Major Wright, Conte, DJ Moore, Hunter, Bowman, Toeina, Chris Harris, Mark Anderson, and on and on...
Guy is a good coach. He coached execution and discipline and violence of action. It isn't about fooling anybody, the good teams don't trick you,they outplay you.
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How were 2011 and 2012 not elite? If you watched the games you saw them bail out a terrible offense time after time and force a ridiculous number of turnovers and punts.
ZOMBIE@CTESPN
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I would never want lovie back
But he is a way better hc then trestman. His players respected him and never quit on him. They didn't do side circus shows because lovie had control of the locker room.
But he just couldn't bring it a complete team together cause he has a one track mind which is similar to trestman just ones defense other offense.
Actually one thing bothered me about lovie even defense didn't do shit without a bad ass dc. Under babich and lovie calling defense it stunk. When Rivera and marinelli took control it was something to watch
But he is a way better hc then trestman. His players respected him and never quit on him. They didn't do side circus shows because lovie had control of the locker room.
But he just couldn't bring it a complete team together cause he has a one track mind which is similar to trestman just ones defense other offense.
Actually one thing bothered me about lovie even defense didn't do shit without a bad ass dc. Under babich and lovie calling defense it stunk. When Rivera and marinelli took control it was something to watch
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80% of this message board argued that Trestman was better than Lovie until about 3-4 weeks ago.
Memories around here are very short.
FatBabiesHaveNoPride
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Two facts matter:
- Lovie made the playoffs 3 times in 9 seasons
- Lovie finished in 3rd or 4th place in 5 of his 9 seasons.
Enough said
- Lovie made the playoffs 3 times in 9 seasons
- Lovie finished in 3rd or 4th place in 5 of his 9 seasons.
Enough said
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Strategically leaving out the season that he went 10-6 and did not make the playoffs. Any other year, your numbers would then be 4 out of 9 playoffs, which is great.
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No team has all pros everywhere. Lovie had the benefit of a decade long HOF defensive captain, prototype, Cover 2 MLB and a key to the Cover 2 as well, in T Harris and Melton probowlers at the 3 technique.
The lack of that player is showing in Tampa.
Dick LeBeau begs to differ.
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But this isn't the Trestman>> Lovie thread. And while it looks bleak to most, I imagine Trestman is going to get a chance to prove himself next year, albeit with 2of 3 new coordinators.
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It's funny the way Conte and Major Wright are considered total trash, supposedly Urlacher was useless his last year, and Peppers didn't do jack shit, and McClellin played a lot. That's 5 out of the 11 players on the field in 2012, that many say are total trash or were in 2012. Yet, we had arguably the best defense in the NFL in 2012, ranked 1st thru 5th in any stat you can find.
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No offense but you sound like some of the kids here that only started watching the Bears during the 06 Superbowl run.
2011: Allowed 341 points (21.3/g), 14th.
2012: Allowed 277 points (17.3/g), 3rd.
Good but not elite.
To put that in perspective let's look at arguably the 2 best defenses of all time.
The 1985 Bears D allowed 198 points (12.4/g), 1st.
The 2000 Ravens D allowed 165 points (10.3/g), 1st.
The 2005 Bears D allowed 202 points (12.6/g), 1st. Right in line with the best D's of all time. Hence: ELITE.
Sorry but if you actually watched the 2005 defense there is no comparison. Urlacher, Briggs, Tillman, Mike Brown all in their prime and healthy. Tommie Harris young and healthy and beasting like he's Warren Sapp. That defense rallied to the ball, gang tackled, and PUNISHED people like the 85 D.
The 2012 D was older, slower, and reliant on turnovers to make up for it (Tillman had 10 forced fumbles that year himself!!).. If they didn't force a fumble or get an INT they were very susceptible to get carved up in the air without a playmaker like Mike Brown in the secondary who was always around the ball and in the right spot at the right time.
Sorry but there's no comparison really to anyone who actually watched the 2 defenses play. The 2012 D was good but the 05 D played at an elite level.
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DVOA 2004 - 9th
DVOA 2005 - 1st
DVOA 2006 - 2nd
DVOA 2007 - 10th
DVOA 2008 - 7th
DVOA 2009 - 21st
DVOA 2010 - 4th
DVOA 2011 - 4th
DVOA 2012 - 1st
DVOA adjusts for a team's schedule. So basically the one metric out there that adjusts for strength of schedule has Lovie finishing in the top on defense in every year except for 2009 when his team was gutted by injuries. I get bashing Lovie for his offense but trying to shit on his D is amusing. Especially when you consider that Lovie was spitting out top 10 D's with an offense that typically put his D in terrible positions.
DVOA 2005 - 1st
DVOA 2006 - 2nd
DVOA 2007 - 10th
DVOA 2008 - 7th
DVOA 2009 - 21st
DVOA 2010 - 4th
DVOA 2011 - 4th
DVOA 2012 - 1st
DVOA adjusts for a team's schedule. So basically the one metric out there that adjusts for strength of schedule has Lovie finishing in the top on defense in every year except for 2009 when his team was gutted by injuries. I get bashing Lovie for his offense but trying to shit on his D is amusing. Especially when you consider that Lovie was spitting out top 10 D's with an offense that typically put his D in terrible positions.
Bearshomer
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Look how many Lovie teams finished around the same ranking in points scored as points allowed. 06-09 and 11 off top of my head finished that way. I don't see anyone arguing those offenses were solid, like Broc is doing with those defenses, because it was obvious to anyone who has eyes that a disproportionate number of points the defense allowed were because the offense screwed up, and conversely a large part of the points scored was because of the defense. Odds are a 24-21 win under Lovie Smith was not a normal offensive game, but instead a large number of both teams points came from defenses making huge turnovers.
When you consistently get turnovers and turn the ball over it tends to be a high scoring game, dramatically inflate your points scored and allowed beyond the offenses and defenses actual performances.
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Dick's D has had just as many good players as Lovie has had and more Pro-bowlers .http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/all-pros.htm Troy Polumalo, James Harrison, Casey Hampton, Joey Porter, James Farrior, Lamar Woodley, etc.. are all Pro-Bowl players during the 2004-2012
Mike Brown is my favorite Bear but the guy couldn't stay on the field for Lovie. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BrowMi99.htm
Compare the Pitt Pro-Bowl list to the Chicago list. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi/all-pros.htm
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Sounds like you actually watched the games. A lot of people seem to have foggy memories or never actually saw them to begin with.
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Thanks Broc, all you did was remind me that this team has a long way to go to even get to the level they were at under Lovie.......So depressing.....
FatBabiesHaveNoPride
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Ifs, ands or butts. You can't change history.
The Bears made the playoffs 3 times out of 9 under Lovie. Once in his final 6 years. Finished 3rd or 4th in the division in 5 of his 9 years
These are stats that you like?