Bill Walton: Don't Trade Noah For Anthony

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Great, another bumbling idiot to deal with, I can't wait.

It must be lonely being such a genius in a pack of nothing but idiots, ain't it?

 

[Lefty]

It must be lonely being such a genius in a pack of nothing but idiots, ain't it?

Actually, yes, sometimes. Thank you for recognizing my plight.

 

[BigP50]

People look I love Noah(I have the guy's autograph) but I'm really sick of having Rose have to break his neck out there to score for this team. Rose needs another scorer and I don't see the problem with having a top 10 scorer in the NBA by his side. You can find another Noah but finding another top 10 player in the league isn't easy and usually includes losing a lot in order to get a high draft pick not getting lucky in the lotto again

Joakim has 33 points and 36 rebounds combined in the first 2 games, your not gonna find that to easily.

 

[Diddy1122]

That means absolutely nothing about his abilities as a basketball player.



That says even less.



I'd rather have the guy that gives me the numbers rather than the one that tries really hard when he doesn't. But hey, that's just me.



Please tell me you're not raining accolades down on Noah after one fucking game this season. Please. You Kool-Aid drinkers are getting fucking ridiculous.

And if you meant last season, then fine, but while he was good last year, he was hardly the "best offensive rebounder in the league", finishing 4th in ORB% and 8th on ORBPG. Get a fucking clue and stop talking out of your ass.



I can guarantee you that you are unable to do that, or at the very least to do that correctly.



Wrong. Noah for Melo makes the team markedly better in the most important phase of basketball (scoring). What's more, the difference in interior D before and after the trade for Melo--Melo is a comparable defender to Deng (who is still overrated), not perfect, but comparable, and finding other sources of D in the NBA isn't that hard, at least with respect to scoring--wouldn't be nearly as large as you want to believe, or at least not large enough to preclude the Bulls being markedly fucking better in the most important phase of the motherfucking game from overcoming it. That's big picture thinking, what you're doing is just talking out of your fucking ass, there's a pretty big difference.



That's because you can't comprehend it all, and should thus not run your mouth like you know a goddamned thing about anything of consequence, much like Rami.



See? That's just fucking stupid. Go away and huff Kool-Aid fumes with Rami in the corner and leave the understanding and discussing of basketball to the intelligent folks.



From what, one fucking game? Please. Jesus fucking Christ am I sick of all you meatball Kool-Aiders on this board. I think it's approaching the hour when all you meatball moron motherfuckers need to admit that you are wholly undervaluing Carmelo motherfucking Anthony just because you don't want to see a loud, obnoxious, try-hardy guy that the team drafted dealt to get him.

I love Kool-Aid. It's refreshing. I love meatballs as well. Very filling.

Oh what a tough job it must be to sit on your fat ass in your mother's basement, covered in crushed doritos, hammering away at your keyboard with your hotdog sized digits, bemoaning the idiocy of the world you're afraid to step out into. I truly pity you. Internet nazis are a sad & lonely bunch. I hope that one day you can have the flagpole removed from your ass so you can actually have a rational conversation, you know, like humans do.

 

[WearShades]

Joakim has 33 points and 36 rebounds combined in the first 2 games, your not gonna find that to easily.

That's not the same. Joakim doesn't create his own shot which is why Rose is overburdened with the scoring load. Noah scores mostly on put backs.

Once Boozer comes back there will be another player that can make his own shots, and seeing as Denver has no real incentive to trade Melo before the deadline anyway we have time to wait and find out what the team is like as is.

 

[Diddy1122]

Why does a person have to be a Noah hater because they prefer Carmelo? That makes no sense...

that said, which player is the hardest to get? Which is the most rare? How many 30ppg guys are there in the league right now. That is what you, and Bill Walton has to think about...

By the way...Carmelo played one year of college ball and practically won the title by himself...he's not a winner???

And why does anyone who supports Noah or thinks he's a good player is drinking Kool-Aid, which honestly guys, is the worst kind of cliched attack anyone could think of.

We have a guy who can score 30ppg. And believe me, a player like Noah is rare, especially in this star oriented, selfish league. I said it the day he was drafted & I'll repeat it over & over again. Noah will be a mutiple all-star. And I'll even add to that. He'll be a multiple rebounding title champ.

So Hou, do you think quick, athletic, smart 7-footer centers grow on trees?

You can't just say scoring will save us, when its been painfully obvious for YEARS that interior D was one of our greatest weaknesses. Hell, we were one of the best scoring teams 2 yrs ago when your favorite whipping boy was our leading scorer.

 

[houheffna]

I love Kool-Aid. It's refreshing. I love meatballs as well. Very filling.

Oh what a tough job it must be to sit on your fat ass in your mother's basement, covered in crushed doritos, hammering away at your keyboard with your hotdog sized digits, bemoaning the idiocy of the world you're afraid to step out into. I truly pity you. Internet nazis are a sad & lonely bunch. I hope that one day you can have the flagpole removed from your ass so you can actually have a rational conversation, you know, like humans do.

hotdog sized digits??? LOL!!! WTF!!!

Hey man...lay off fat people though...I get out now, they widened the doors...

 

[houheffna]

And why does anyone who supports Noah or thinks he's a good player is drinking Kool-Aid, which honestly guys, is the worst kind of cliched attack anyone could think of.

We have a guy who can score 30ppg. And believe me, a player like Noah is rare, especially in this star oriented, selfish league. I said it the day he was drafted & I'll repeat it over & over again. Noah will be a mutiple all-star. And I'll even add to that. He'll be a multiple rebounding title champ.

So Hou, do you think quick, athletic, smart 7-footer centers grow on trees?

You can't just say scoring will save us, when its been painfully obvious for YEARS that interior D was one of our greatest weaknesses. Hell, we were one of the best scoring teams 2 yrs ago when your favorite whipping boy was our leading scorer.

You are comparing Ben Gordon to Carmelo Anthony...that is just senseless. You can do better than that my friend...

Noah WILL be a multiple allstar, says Diddy and his basketball sized crystal ball...I have news for you...Carmelo IS, i say IS a multiple allstar.

Speaking of kool aid...after 2 games you are calling Rose a 30ppg guy? Are you serious? And calm down with that "selfish" talk. There are not many selfish players in the league, that is overblown. Next thing you will get back in your rocking chair reminiscing about the good old days of 1996. No thank you...

I would rather have Carmelo and Noah. That is my stance, but between the two? Give me Carmelo...why?

He is a top 10 guy and can score better than anyone else in the league when it comes to variety. He has no weaknesses in his game when it comes to scoring, you can't say that about any of the top players except for maybe Kobe.

 

[Lefty]

I love Kool-Aid. It's refreshing. I love meatballs as well. Very filling.

Oh what a tough job it must be to sit on your fat ass in your mother's basement, covered in crushed doritos, hammering away at your keyboard with your hotdog sized digits, bemoaning the idiocy of the world you're afraid to step out into. I truly pity you. Internet nazis are a sad & lonely bunch. I hope that one day you can have the flagpole removed from your ass so you can actually have a rational conversation, you know, like humans do.

I think it really says a lot about the overall intelligence of this board when seemingly everyone eventually regresses into this kind of pitiful, tired argument. I have no need for your pity, at times I pity myself, because I know my life would be a whole lot easier if I was just another moron that couldn't think his way out of a wet paper bag.

So, the next time you want to fire back at me out of an unwillingness to face the truth that perhaps you are wrong and not as intelligent as you wish yourself to be, please, come up with something fresh, this kind of "lolololol mom's basement nerd i bet u nvr evn kissd a gurl" bullshit is just really, really stupid, and really doesn't say a whole lot of good things about the board as a whole when you are incapable of forming an equally-intelligent and poignant response (either because you don't know how to or just can't admit that your points have been bested) and must resort to such overplayed responses. Better luck next time.

 

[Lefty]

You can't just say scoring will save us, when its been painfully obvious for YEARS that interior D was one of our greatest weaknesses. Hell, we were one of the best scoring teams 2 yrs ago when your favorite whipping boy was our leading scorer.

The numbers show that scoring has more to do with winning than any other facet of the game. Therefore, scoring will save us, not that hard of a concept to grasp, chief (well, I mean for people who aren't Special person, but maybe you'll get it someday).

Also, WTF are you talking about when you say the Bulls were "one of the best scoring teams"? In recent history they've never been very good in that regard, usually settling for middle-of-the-pack Offensive Ratings or worse. This would be a whole lot easier if you didn't make stuff up, much less completely fucking stupid shit.

 

[Lefty]

Also, a note on hot dog-sized digits: what if I just have really big hands? :dunno:

 

[Shakes]

The problem isn't how highly we rate Noah, the problem is how you rate Carmelo.

I think you're vastly over rating Carmelo based on his PPG. He scores a lot of points without being much more efficient than average. Sure, the Bulls have a bad offensive group that can't even be average, so that will help some, but you put him on the Bulls and while his 28 points a game will look impressive it wont translate to a heap more wins. He's not a great passer or three point shooter so he's not really someone who opens the game up for other players either.

The key to winning games isn't scoring, it's scoring more efficiently than your opponents. You add Carmelo and you help a little on our scoring efficiency. You take away Noah and you hurt us in holding the opponents efficiency down. The net result is about the same win total, plus or minus a few games. Certainly not championship contention.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

The problem isn't how highly we rate Noah, the problem is how you rate Carmelo.

I think you're vastly over rating Carmelo based on his PPG. He scores a lot of points without being much more efficient than average. Sure, the Bulls have a bad offensive group that can't even be average, so that will help some, but you put him on the Bulls and while his 28 points a game will look impressive it wont translate to a heap more wins. He's not a great passer or three point shooter so he's not really someone who opens the game up for other players either.

The key to winning games isn't scoring, it's scoring more efficiently than your opponents. You add Carmelo and you help a little on our scoring efficiency. You take away Noah and you hurt us in holding the opponents efficiency down. The net result is about the same win total, plus or minus a few games. Certainly not championship contention.

Disagree with that portion.

 

[Diddy1122]

You are comparing Ben Gordon to Carmelo Anthony...that is just senseless. You can do better than that my friend...

Noah WILL be a multiple allstar, says Diddy and his basketball sized crystal ball...I have news for you...Carmelo IS, i say IS a multiple allstar.

Speaking of kool aid...after 2 games you are calling Rose a 30ppg guy? Are you serious? And calm down with that "selfish" talk. There are not many selfish players in the league, that is overblown. Next thing you will get back in your rocking chair reminiscing about the good old days of 1996. No thank you...

I would rather have Carmelo and Noah. That is my stance, but between the two? Give me Carmelo...why?

He is a top 10 guy and can score better than anyone else in the league when it comes to variety. He has no weaknesses in his game when it comes to scoring, you can't say that about any of the top players except for maybe Kobe.

I'm betting I will be in a rocking chair reminiscing about the glory days of the 90's but not for atleast another 40yrs. And I agree with your assessment of Melo. I just disagree about the trade. But thank you for stating your reasons in a coherent, respectful manner, rather than foaming at the mouth & bashing away on your keyboard like some people on here.

But Hou, enough with twisting my words to bolster your own argument. Did I say BG was better than Melo? I don't think so. I was talking in terms of the team scoring, which Bulls were in the top 10 in the league without a Top 10 guy. And the team was still wildly mediocre. Why? Defense & rebounding were atrocious. So fast forward to the following season, #1 in rebs, #2 in blks, & #11 in defensive pct, but #24 in offense. This is what I'm talking about. Melo's scoring would be great to have but it's not like getting Melo & subtracting all that Noah does, which alot doesn't end up on the stat sheets, will somehow vault us into championship contention. It won't. It will put us back in a similar situation we had been mired in for years which doesn't necessarily equal championship.

But hey, agree to disagree at this point cuz I think we're both pretty dead set in our ways.

 

[pinkizdead]

I love Kool-Aid. It's refreshing. I love meatballs as well. Very filling.

Oh what a tough job it must be to sit on your fat ass in your mother's basement, covered in crushed doritos, hammering away at your keyboard with your hotdog sized digits, bemoaning the idiocy of the world you're afraid to step out into. I truly pity you. Internet nazis are a sad & lonely bunch. I hope that one day you can have the flagpole removed from your ass so you can actually have a rational conversation, you know, like humans do.

i dont think i can give enough thanks for this.

 

[pinkizdead]

really if you look at it,

rose MAY become as good as wade in a couple years.

boozer is a stronger more physical player than bosh, but is he significantly better better? I'm not sure that he is. he has problems finishing against length, and has a detailed injury history.

melo is not better than lebron in any shape or form.

We're always going to be the second best team in the east.

Any argument that you could replace noah quicker than you can find a melo fails to understand the fact that we don't have many tradeable assets left, and that FA will always prefer the warm TAX FREE enviroments than will chicago. Especially once our salary includes melo, boozer, and rose.

I think if this team beats miami, it's going to have to be on teh defensive end of things. lord knows it wont be the offensive end, and noah is going to be a vital aspect of our defensive plans.

With all that said, i;m not certain i wouldn't do the melo trade. Noah's play of late has made me recant my original stance on the situation.

 

[houheffna]

I'm betting I will be in a rocking chair reminiscing about the glory days of the 90's but not for atleast another 40yrs. And I agree with your assessment of Melo. I just disagree about the trade. But thank you for stating your reasons in a coherent, respectful manner, rather than foaming at the mouth & bashing away on your keyboard like some people on here.

But Hou, enough with twisting my words to bolster your own argument. Did I say BG was better than Melo? I don't think so. I was talking in terms of the team scoring, which Bulls were in the top 10 in the league without a Top 10 guy. And the team was still wildly mediocre. Why? Defense & rebounding were atrocious. So fast forward to the following season, #1 in rebs, #2 in blks, & #11 in defensive pct, but #24 in offense. This is what I'm talking about. Melo's scoring would be great to have but it's not like getting Melo & subtracting all that Noah does, which alot doesn't end up on the stat sheets, will somehow vault us into championship contention. It won't. It will put us back in a similar situation we had been mired in for years which doesn't necessarily equal championship.

But hey, agree to disagree at this point cuz I think we're both pretty dead set in our ways.

Well that is what I am about...truthfully, that is why I loved Shakes' posts. I disagreed with him at times but he always presented his arguments well...with a bit of sarcasm mixed in. While I find certain statements "basketball Special person", a term I borrowed from one of my all time fav sports journalists, Terry Boers, I continue to refrain from belittling people for their opinions.

What would this forum be like if we all agreed? Think about it! Thats called church. A concept that makes me sick to my stomach these days. Again, lets have good, decent conversation and agree and disagree...respectfully. That doesn't mean you have to be polite to the point of boredom, I like to get digs in when I see something stupid written, but you debase your own argument when you have to resort to putdowns when people disagree with you...just my beliefs.

 

[Lefty]

The problem isn't how highly we rate Noah, the problem is how you rate Carmelo.

I think you're vastly over rating Carmelo based on his PPG. He scores a lot of points without being much more efficient than average. Sure, the Bulls have a bad offensive group that can't even be average, so that will help some, but you put him on the Bulls and while his 28 points a game will look impressive it wont translate to a heap more wins. He's not a great passer or three point shooter so he's not really someone who opens the game up for other players either.

The key to winning games isn't scoring, it's scoring more efficiently than your opponents. You add Carmelo and you help a little on our scoring efficiency. You take away Noah and you hurt us in holding the opponents efficiency down. The net result is about the same win total, plus or minus a few games. Certainly not championship contention.

This is true, however it has been demonstrated that when players are asked to do more for the team (in terms of accounting for more of the offense), we see diminishing returns as far as scoring and winning goes, because the player becomes less efficient. Therefore, it follows that if you ask a player to do less, one can expect an increase in efficiency.

Melo has been asked to do a whole lot in Denver, and has never really been given someone else to help shoulder the load (unless you want to count Earl Boykins and an aged Marcus Camby). Perhaps you can throw Billups and that one good year of Iverson in there as guys that were meant to help, but Iverson was horribly inefficient given his minutes, and Billups was already 33 when they brought him in.

If you add Melo to the Bulls, with both Rose and Boozer as real, viable scoring options, we will see that efficiency increase along with a drop in his usage rate, all on top of his already-spectacular PP36 numbers.

 

[Lefty]

But thank you for stating your reasons in a coherent, respectful manner, rather than foaming at the mouth & bashing away on your keyboard like some people on here.

Hey, it's not my fault you're Special person and say Special person things.

 

[pinkizdead]

you know, i didn't realize it until right now, BUT, a team of rose, melo, and boozer is going to be a pretty bad defensive team on it's face. even if you add some defensive players in on the guard position, the majority of minutes will be played by some mediocre defensive/less than mediocre definsive players.