Boozer for KG

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Circumstance where I'd do the KG-Boozer trade:

KG would need to agree to about Rip Hamilton type of money for about 2-3 years at about maybe $5M per-season. Korver would also need to be included in the deal to unload his contract.

Circumstance I would highly consider a Deng-Pierce trade:

Deng has season-ending surgery and Ainge calls and offers Pierce and multiple draft picks for Deng. Korver would also need to be included in the deal and the Celtics would need to give up a Brandon Bass type of player as well.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

he would average less numbers wise

deng's better at the rim...longer...better defensively...younger...

the biggest thing is long term...you dont trade away deng for pierce who will be on this team for a much shorter time than deng would in the same situation



the celtics wouldnt do the trade...especially since deng is hurt(ya i know long term impact..yada...yada) but they wouldnt do it...

I don't think I would have the stomach to trade Deng for Pierce either even if he was going to be out for the season just because of the long-term implications. But it would be something to at least consider if the Celtics would make an offer like the one I previously described.

The Boozer for KG one seems pretty straight forward to me.

ok cool...boozer>KG offensively

I honestly think you're wrong about this. KG demands about as much attention when he is down-low as Boozer when he is there. And Boozer probably looks for his shot down-low less often than Boozer. And when you consider Garnett's superior passing and shooting... it seems that Boozer just isn't as good at that end. Unless you are factoring in offensive rebounding. Then, it gets pretty interchangeable between the two.

 

[97Bulls]

Why are so many bulls fans so down on boozer? He's played every game so far (knock on wood), and he's been a very strong post player and rebounder. I still wish thibs would make a better effort to get him more touches, his defense gets better when he's seeing the ball

We don't need garnett. The team is fine without him.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Why are so many bulls fans so down on boozer? He's played every game so far (knock on wood), and he's been a very strong post player and rebounder. I still wish thibs would make a better effort to get him more touches, his defense gets better when he's seeing the ball

We don't need garnett. The team is fine without him.

If it wasn't for his contract, I'd be fine with having Boozer on the team long-term. Sadly, his contract is going to keep the team from being able to improve through free-agency going forward. So if you can get an expiring contract for him as good as K.G., you do it.

Boozer is a very good player but so is K.G.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

KG also gives you a third player who can play the 5.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I don't think I would have the stomach to trade Deng for Pierce either even if he was going to be out for the season just because of the long-term implications. But it would be something to at least consider if the Celtics would make an offer like the one I previously described.

considerable and actually a good trade are two different things though

KG demands about as much attention when he is down-low as Boozer when he is there.

ok? what does this actually mean though?

And Boozer probably looks for his shot down-low less often than Boozer.

lolwut

And when you consider Garnett's superior passing and shooting... it seems that Boozer just isn't as good at that end. Unless you are factoring in offensive rebounding. Then, it gets pretty interchangeable between the two.

boozer is definitely a better interior rebounder and arguably interior scorer..which makes boozer actually relatively efficient

boozer is not a bad passer either...

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

considerable and actually a good trade are two different things though

It depends how you define "good trade." If the Bulls make that trade (because Deng can't play), win the title this season because of that trade, and then Pierce completely falls apart next season and ends up retiring and we lose him for nothing more than the cap-space we inherit, would that be a good trade? I think a case could be made for that.

ok? what does this actually mean though?

It means that Boozer and K.G. right now demand just about as many double-teams down-low when they possess the ball down there.

lolwut

I meant "Boozer probably looks for his shot down low less than K.G. does." It's interchangeable at best.

boozer is definitely a better interior rebounder and arguably interior scorer..which makes boozer actually relatively efficient

The rebounding advantage for Boozer is undeniable over K.G. But I value what K.G. does defensively moreso than I value Boozer's rebounding advantage. K.G.'s great defense can allow him to play the C spot too which is invaluable against a team like Miami. Boozer+Gibson just doesn't work defensively.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

It depends how you define "good trade." If the Bulls make that trade (because Deng can't play), win the title this season because of that trade, and then Pierce completely falls apart next season and ends up retiring and we lose him for nothing more than the cap-space we inherit, would that be a good trade? I think a case could be made for that.

you're making a huge grasp here...

It means that Boozer and K.G. right now demand just about as many double-teams down-low when they possess the ball down there.

doesnt mean that boozer isnt better offensively

I meant "Boozer probably looks for his shot down low less than K.G. does." It's interchangeable at best.

boozer is able to use his err..umm center of gravity..and converts more from inside..thus he is more efficient

The rebounding advantage for Boozer is undeniable over K.G. But I value what K.G. does defensively moreso than I value Boozer's rebounding advantage. K.G.'s great defense can allow him to play the C spot too which is invaluable against a team like Miami. Boozer+Gibson just doesn't work defensively.

why would you play boozer+gibson in the post? why not rotate omer or noah in?

KG is still good defensively and arguably still the anchor..but he's lost alot of lateral ability he isnt the DPOY anymore or anything like that

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

you're making a huge grasp here...

It's not a huge grasp at all. If Deng is out for the year, the Bulls do not win the title this year if no moves are made. It's really as simple as that and no explanation should be necessary. Pierce would give them a chance in Deng's place.

doesnt mean that boozer isnt better offensively

What exactly does Boozer do better than Garnett offensively? The only thing is honestly backing people down and he often goes entire games without even trying to do that. We know what Garnett does better than Boozer- passing and shooting.

boozer is able to use his err..umm center of gravity..and converts more from inside..thus he is more efficient

That is what the Bulls payed for but it isn't what they are getting Boozer has become a pure jump-shooter. Over 95% of the time, when he has his back to the basket, he just ends up turning around and taking a face-up jump-shot. I'll grant you that there is not much of a difference between Boozer and K.G. offensively. But when Boozer is hurting, he is a straight-up liability on offense and is a turnover machine.

When it comes to efficiency, they are shooting very similar percentages and scoring similar number of points.

why would you play boozer+gibson in the post? why not rotate omer or noah in?

Because K.G. is a much better offensive player than Noah or Asik. You give up a lot of rebounding with them both out, but you gain a lot of offense. The reason Thibs elects to go with Boozer+Gibson at times is because both of them are better/more dependable offensive options than Noah or Asik.

KG is still good defensively and arguably still the anchor..but he's lost alot of lateral ability he isnt the DPOY anymore or anything like that

For the sake of argument, let's say that Boozer and K.G. are nearly equal offensively. Boozer is obviously a better rebounder. I say that the upgrade that starting unit undergoes defensively would help more than the rebounding edge Boozer has over K.G.

K.G. is no DPOY anymore but he is not a lousy defender as Boozer is.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

It's not a huge grasp at all. If Deng is out for the year, the Bulls do not win the title this year if no moves are made. It's really as simple as that and no explanation should be necessary. Pierce would give them a chance in Deng's place..

thats not what i was referring to

What exactly does Boozer do better than Garnett offensively? The only thing is honestly backing people down and he often goes entire games without even trying to do that. We know what Garnett does better than Boozer- passing and shooting.

you're arguing more that garnett is more diverse.not better offensively

boozer is averaging more 2 more PPG than garnett..in less minutes and sharing the ball with deng and rose among others(not to say garnett isnt sharing the ball either)

That is what the Bulls payed for but it isn't what they are getting Boozer has become a pure jump-shooter. Over 95% of the time, when he has his back to the basket, he just ends up turning around and taking a face-up jump-shot. I'll grant you that there is not much of a difference between Boozer and K.G. offensively. But when Boozer is hurting, he is a straight-up liability on offense and is a turnover machine.

i never said boozer was a prolific inside threat..i think he's atleast better and more able in that regard than garnett at this piont

btw garnett is averaging more turnovers per game than boozer by a decent margin(i know you said when he's hurt)

When it comes to efficiency, they are shooting very similar percentages and scoring similar number of points.

no

Because K.G. is a much better offensive player than Noah or Asik. You give up a lot of rebounding with them both out, but you gain a lot of offense. The reason Thibs elects to go with Boozer+Gibson at times is because both of them are better/more dependable offensive options than Noah or Asik.

thats not what i was referring to...

the bolded is the only part i was interested in...its a dumb lineup unless you want boozer to stretch

For the sake of argument, let's say that Boozer and K.G. are nearly equal offensively. Boozer is obviously a better rebounder. I say that the upgrade that starting unit undergoes defensively would help more than the rebounding edge Boozer has over K.G.

K.G. is no DPOY anymore but he is not a lousy defender as Boozer is.[/QUOTE]

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I think we are largely misunderstanding each other or I am you? I don't know.

But you say K.G. and Boozer are not averaging nearly the same amount of points and shooting similarly?

(nearly identical minutes)

Boozer averages 2 more points.

Boozer is shooting 4% better from the field.

Garnett attempts 2 less FG's per-game.

Garnett is shooting over 10% better from the FT line.

Garnett is shooting 1 more FT per-game.

Seems pretty similar production and efficiency scoring-wise to me...

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I think we are largely misunderstanding each other or I am you? I don't know.

But you say K.G. and Boozer are not averaging nearly the same amount of points and shooting similarly?

(nearly identical minutes)

Boozer averages 2 more points.

Boozer is shooting 4% better from the field.

Garnett attempts 2 less FG's per-game.

Garnett is shooting over 10% better from the FT line.

Garnett is shooting 1 more FT per-game.

Seems pretty similar production and efficiency scoring-wise to me...

the biggest two things

i never said boozer was way better on offense either

i think he's better though....that's the only reason he isnt completely riding the pine

i still think kg>boozer...but i think boozer is better offensively again

anyway i have already explained why i dont like the trade..which was the original topic here

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

the biggest two things

i never said boozer was way better on offense either

i think he's better though....that's the only reason he isnt completely riding the pine

i still think kg>boozer...but i think boozer is better offensively again

anyway i have already explained why i dont like the trade..which was the original topic here

Do you at least see how that trade could help the Bulls from a financial stand-point?

 

[clonetrooper264]

Do you at least see how that trade could help the Bulls from a financial stand-point?

The financial thing is the only real reason I can see us making this trade. But who are we going to go after anyway? It seems like no big FA wants to come here for some reason...

 

[Anytime23]

The financial thing is the only real reason I can see us making this trade. But who are we going to go after anyway? It seems like no big FA wants to come here for some reason...

Thats the only reason id do it. Would be one hell of a bloated contract off the books. For some crazy reason, im holding out faith that he'll show up these playoffs. I really hope at least.

Maybe we can trade him for Andrea Bargnani, i love that guy...dreams

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Do you at least see how that trade could help the Bulls from a financial stand-point?

perhaps depending on the specifics of the trade...again KG's contract is 21 mil....a midseason trade wouldnt help contract wise depending on what other assets you throw

 

[Uman85]

Thats the only reason id do it. Would be one hell of a bloated contract off the books. For some crazy reason, im holding out faith that he'll show up these playoffs. I really hope at least.

Maybe we can trade him for Andrea Bargnani, i love that guy...dreams

Bargnani is sick. Love the way he plays.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Bargnani is sick. Love the way he plays.

i used to be against him on the bulls..but my opinion has changed on this...

 

[BNB]

The financial thing is the only real reason I can see us making this trade. But who are we going to go after anyway? It seems like no big FA wants to come here for some reason...

we would clear a lot of cap space.. but we'd still be over the Cap. Noah's getting 11+ Million, Deng's gonna get 13+, Rose's new contract will kick in and we'd still have Korver, Watson, Butler, Asik, Gibson + whoever we take in the draft.

But IF we somehow were under the cap, it wouldn't be enough to sign anyone really good anyway.

plus next years FA class is pretty weak. NBA free agents in 2011 and 2012 - ESPN

There's some solid role players we could potentially get though for the MLE

 

[Anytime23]

Bargnani and Wesley Matthews are my two favorite non-Bulls.