Bring your Wentz questions

Pegger

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I appreciate this info,

but with all due respect, sounds kind of bullshit

I don't see anything in your list that other QBs haven't dealt with

I don't see enough to explain the drop. Somethin in that kid broke and to me, this list doesn't seem to illuminate that at all
It's just my opinion and do take it with a grain of salt. Ultimately what we are talking about will have no influence on what ends up happening, so it's all just gain some perspective.

If you have any follow up questions I'd try to sort though them. I'm not sure you'll like/believe my response, but I'll commit to being as objective as I can in my response.
 

Pegger

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what I DO know tho, is the NFL will never run out of coaches that think they can be the one to fix a busted ass QB
Or put a slightly different way any coach that feels their teaching has made players better also feels they can make other players better.

If you think about it a coaches job is to make players better and put them in a position to succeed. That's what coaching is. So when you ask them 'do you think you can make that player better and put them in a position to succeed?' they typically reply 'that's what I'm here for'.

If you ask a mail man if he can deliver mail his response is 'yes' even when your 'mail' is a 300lb paper bag of dog shit.
 

NCIggles

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As many know I'm an Eagle fan and follow them pretty closely.

With that being said, I'm pretty hung over and will answer any and all Wentz questions you may have.

Let's try to strike that perfect balance of information gathering and pure stupidity.

giphy.gif

Oh so you're an Eagles fan? Answer me this then, who was the 2nd string RB behind Keith Byars in 1986 then?
 

Pegger

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Oh so you're an Eagles fan? Answer me this then, who was the 2nd string RB behind Keith Byars in 1986 then?
The internet told me it was Anthony Toney, but in Tecmo I used him because he was a little bit faster. I think he was a 50?

Seriously though, hop in and add some commentary. You know the Eagles as well, so can probably add some perspective.
 

NCIggles

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The internet told me it was Anthony Toney, but in Tecmo I used him because he was a little bit faster. I think he was a 50?

Seriously though, hop in and add some commentary. You know the Eagles as well, so can probably add some perspective.

Ha! Technically Andrew Toney and Michael Haddix were listed as FBs and Junior Tautalatasi was the back up to Byars as RB. The point is when I became an Eagles fans my favorite player in the video game was the red dash. Red dash was awesome.
 

NCIggles

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I guess ill ask a real question or questions @Pegger .If the bears do trade for Wentz as an Eagles fan would rather have

The Bears 2021 First and 2022 first

Or

The Bears 2021 First, Foles and and offense player ( If this one, who would you like?)

Also if Wentz reverts back to 2019 firm would you consider it a steal fir the bears regardless of what they give up?

From my point of view, the biggest problem with the Eagles has been roster management. This is on Roseman. So if a 2022 pick has the possibility of being under a different GM, then that's a far better pick for the Eagles. He has managed the team in a way that has exacerbated their needs. The team has missed on far too many picks in the draft since 2017. It's exemplified by picks like taking Sidney Jones in the 2nd round in 2017. His failure to develop led to the need to trading multiple picks for Slay. They have also failed miserably to surround Wentz with adequate weapons. Roseman hit on Torrey Smith, sort of, in 2017 and then had this repeated pattern of trying to add cheap veterans as a deep threats rather than looking for speed at the WR position in the draft. He agreed to an inexplicable contract extension for Alshon and then drafted a receiver who's only possible role on the team was as an Alshon replacement. Oh and we picked him instead of DK Metcalf who was apparently higher on their scouts draft board. I could go on but yes a 2022 pick.

I am resigned to the fact that the Eagles put themselves in a situation where they had to trade Wentz. I hope he reverts to 2017 form as it will focus my hatred for Roseman.
 

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saw this on an eagles forum but do you see this as realistic


Latest rumor:
Eagles give up Wentz and a 2021 2nd rd pick to the Bears.
Bears give up 2021 1st rounder, 2022 2nd rounder, Foles and Roquan Smith.

lol roquan, ok
 

botfly10

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It's just my opinion and do take it with a grain of salt. Ultimately what we are talking about will have no influence on what ends up happening, so it's all just gain some perspective.

If you have any follow up questions I'd try to sort though them. I'm not sure you'll like/believe my response, but I'll commit to being as objective as I can in my response.

to be clear, I don't doubt the things you said

I just doubt those are enough to explain what broke in him
 

NCIggles

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You can talk up Wentz all you want, I'm always going to be opposed to getting him. Hurts is definitely going to be awesome in Philly, I'd rather the Bears go after someone in the draft even though they have failed every time rather than getting Wentz, who either wont be any good here or will be injured 70% percent of the time.

Hurts has a below average NFL arm. I think he's going to be Tyrod Taylor. He really didn't play any better than Wentz.
 

NCIggles

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I appreciate this info,

but with all due respect, sounds kind of bullshit

I don't see anything in your list that other QBs haven't dealt with

I don't see enough to explain the drop. Somethin in that kid broke and to me, this list doesn't seem to illuminate that at all

I agree that nothing really explained his poor decision making this year. He also seemed incapable of just throwing the without aiming it. I don't know whether it was just him trying to consistently play hero ball or whether he just stopped processing what he was seeing. I know nothing was good. Sure he had oline and receiver issues but there were plays that he just made terrible decisions that were unlike him. For example, in the first game against the Cowboys on a 4th and 3 from about midfield, he missed a pass right in front of him and got sacked by a blitzing LB. The slot receiver Greg Ward was open where the blitzing LB vacated. He should have been the only read and throw. Wentz looked right at him and then looked to another receiver before getting sacked. It was emblematic of his season.

Part of me wonders whether he was still struggling with post-concussion symptoms that impacted his executive functioning. I mean that would just be speculation. I tend to believe that it's not some permanent change but just he was in an environment where he was expected to be the leader and he was a victim to his worst instincts. He played almost every play like it needed to be big play and didn't have a coach that he would listen to that could push him in the right direction. In 2019, he struggled early in the year until McCown got in his ear about his play. He really helped him make the right decisions and lead the team. He's physically capable but just seems to at times use his worst instincts instead of just making the easy play.

I think Wentz can return to form, but he has to listen to the coaches. He had the most success under Flip. I think that's good for the Bears if they get him.
 

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@Pegger did know the 2nd string running back in 1986? Fuck that guy, this was all a ruse. He bamboozled us bros!
 

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On a scale of 1-10, what are the odds of you becoming a Bears fan if wentz succeeds here.

You are pretty much the only opposing fan on this forum who isn't an idiot, and, tbh, you're better than 95% of people who post here.

There he goes folks. Flying above it all!
 

Bearly

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There he goes folks. Flying above it all!
It's why 95% of this board thinks he's a funny (in the bad way) incompetent drunk. The other 5% don't like him at all.
 

Pegger

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From my point of view, the biggest problem with the Eagles has been roster management. This is on Roseman. So if a 2022 pick has the possibility of being under a different GM, then that's a far better pick for the Eagles. He has managed the team in a way that has exacerbated their needs. The team has missed on far too many picks in the draft since 2017. It's exemplified by picks like taking Sidney Jones in the 2nd round in 2017. His failure to develop led to the need to trading multiple picks for Slay. They have also failed miserably to surround Wentz with adequate weapons. Roseman hit on Torrey Smith, sort of, in 2017 and then had this repeated pattern of trying to add cheap veterans as a deep threats rather than looking for speed at the WR position in the draft. He agreed to an inexplicable contract extension for Alshon and then drafted a receiver who's only possible role on the team was as an Alshon replacement. Oh and we picked him instead of DK Metcalf who was apparently higher on their scouts draft board. I could go on but yes a 2022 pick.

I am resigned to the fact that the Eagles put themselves in a situation where they had to trade Wentz. I hope he reverts to 2017 form as it will focus my hatred for Roseman.
That's definitely the most common narrative in Philly talk radio. They also don't understand how Roseman can last through all these regime changes. Some thinks he's a cockroach/snake that is almost immune to the failure and lately some feel Dough Pederson should have stayed and Howie should have gotten the boot.

For me I look at it a little differently. All team's fans dislike their GM to a certain extent. It's just too easy to see other teams do something right and want that for your own team. Here's my take on who Howie Roseman is:

- He's highly regarded when it comes to managing the salary cap and creating contracts.
- He works tirelessly when there's a deal that he thinks can help the team (getting Chip Kelly as a coach or trading up for Wentz are great examples of this).
- He's won a Superbowl - His fingerprints were all over the roster creation.
- He's not afraid to take risks - Some GMs avoid bold moves because they are worried about failure. Howie is always looking for ways to get better and isn't afraid of making a move.

The most common knock is his draft record. I'll agree that he's not good, but no team really is. Pick any team, look at their 10 year history then realize there are more failures than successes. I'd add, he's identified drafting as a weakness and hired people specifically to run that. Joe Douglas comes to mind where he was trying to get some of that Ozzy Newsome influence from Baltimore. His drafts were also bad, but like I said that's more common that you'd think. I'd add players don't progress for a variety of reasons. Some of that is on the team, but a lot of that is on the player. My final point is the team has been in 'win now' mode for the last 4-5 seasons. This has negatively impacted their draft capital. Sure they haven't been good at nailing the pick, but they have also had less picks than most teams, which lowers the overall chance of successful picks.
 

TL1961

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saw this on an eagles forum but do you see this as realistic


Latest rumor:
Eagles give up Wentz and a 2021 2nd rd pick to the Bears.
Bears give up 2021 1st rounder, 2022 2nd rounder, Foles and Roquan Smith.
Why would the Bears entertain including Roquan in the deal? I can't see that happening. Not tht he is untouchable, simply that they have to be able to reach a deal without that.
 

TL1961

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I could sell high on Roquan. Little guy plays fast, probably gonna be injured in a couple years. If it gets us Wentz it doesn't matter.

Fuller/Roquan, 2 firsts, Foles, and we get Wentz and a third and a 6th and Alshon Jeffery.

Thats what I would pay and you can roast me but I'd wait 2 years if I were you.
Oh, yay! We get a WR for three games a season.
 

TL1961

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Ha! Technically Andrew Toney and Michael Haddix were listed as FBs and Junior Tautalatasi was the back up to Byars as RB. The point is when I became an Eagles fans my favorite player in the video game was the red dash. Red dash was awesome.
It's a thread about Wentz, dude. Not the eagles second stringers from yesteryear. ?
 

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That's definitely the most common narrative in Philly talk radio. They also don't understand how Roseman can last through all these regime changes. Some thinks he's a cockroach/snake that is almost immune to the failure and lately some feel Dough Pederson should have stayed and Howie should have gotten the boot.

For me I look at it a little differently. All team's fans dislike their GM to a certain extent. It's just too easy to see other teams do something right and want that for your own team. Here's my take on who Howie Roseman is:

- He's highly regarded when it comes to managing the salary cap and creating contracts.
- He works tirelessly when there's a deal that he thinks can help the team (getting Chip Kelly as a coach or trading up for Wentz are great examples of this).
- He's won a Superbowl - His fingerprints were all over the roster creation.
- He's not afraid to take risks - Some GMs avoid bold moves because they are worried about failure. Howie is always looking for ways to get better and isn't afraid of making a move.

The most common knock is his draft record. I'll agree that he's not good, but no team really is. Pick any team, look at their 10 year history then realize there are more failures than successes. I'd add, he's identified drafting as a weakness and hired people specifically to run that. Joe Douglas comes to mind where he was trying to get some of that Ozzy Newsome influence from Baltimore. His drafts were also bad, but like I said that's more common that you'd think. I'd add players don't progress for a variety of reasons. Some of that is on the team, but a lot of that is on the player. My final point is the team has been in 'win now' mode for the last 4-5 seasons. This has negatively impacted their draft capital. Sure they haven't been good at nailing the pick, but they have also had less picks than most teams, which lowers the overall chance of successful picks.

He also bends other GM’s over in trades. IMO he should be a 1st ballot HOF-er for getting a 2nd round pick for Kevin Kolb and a 1st rounder for Bradford.

I’m certain Pace is the next victim.
 

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Hurts has a below average NFL arm. I think he's going to be Tyrod Taylor. He really didn't play any better than Wentz.

Thank you. I've said this a couple times on here that people are acting like J.Hurts played well in his starts this year but besides a couple good runs he made with his legs he didn't look that good.
 

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Why would the Bears entertain including Roquan in the deal? I can't see that happening. Not tht he is untouchable, simply that they have to be able to reach a deal without that.
Only thing I can think of is if Pace knows he's going to be really expensive or gone and/or there's some weird off field stuff the team has been hiding (thi k Antonio Brown). That's only a far fetched speculation, so not even rumor worthy.
 

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