Bring your Wentz questions

[Luke]

He also bends other GM’s over in trades. IMO he should be a 1st ballot HOF-er for getting a 2nd round pick for Kevin Kolb and a 1st rounder for Bradford.

I’m certain Pace is the next victim.

yep, always expected Pace to take it up the ol Hershey highway

 

[Pegger]

You can talk up Wentz all you want, I'm always going to be opposed to getting him. Hurts is definitely going to be awesome in Philly, I'd rather the Bears go after someone in the draft even though they have failed every time rather than getting Wentz, who either wont be any good here or will be injured 70% percent of the time.

Hurts with his quickness was better suited for the bad blocking, so when you include his running he looked better.

I'm training camp there was a lot of positive things that were said about his deep ball. I'm still wondering if he's an NFL caliber QB.

I like the Tyrod Taylor comparison. I hope he can be better, but truthfully Tyrod isn't that bad.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

As much as people are scared to death of the Bears drafting Carson Wentz, I don't mind it in this situation, as long as they are only giving up draft picks in the 2021 draft and nothing from beyond.

You have the Bears in a win now mode. Pace and Nagy's jobs depend on it. They aren't going to draft a replacement. That takes too much time to figure out what you have. Time they don't have.

Of the quarterbacks who are out there, Stafford was likely the safest bet. Watson was a fun headline but likely is going to pull a Carson Palmer and sit for a year before he's actually traded since the Texans are not budging on training him this year. The players who are left are the players who are left.

Of all of them, the one who has the highest ceiling was Carson Wentz. The Bears happen to have the quarterbacks coach who was Carson's QB coach when he had his best year. And if he is a head case who feels like he doesn't fit, Nagy's "be you" locker room is his best chance to rehabilitate his mental state.

None of this is to say it will work. But if there is one place where it could work and you could see a tannehill type resurgence, is stupefied as I am to even say this out loud because it's never the Bears, but it actually is the Bears.

No matter what pace does it's going to be a Gamble.

From a fan standpoint looking it this way:

If Carson succeeds we finally have a damn quarterback.

If he fails, we finally get rid of pace and nagy.

And for those worried about the cap hit, it just means whoever will be coming in behind them will draft their own quarterback, and be given the time and patience to develop them. By the time the Bears are out of cap hell, the qb will be ready if they drafted right.

So I am all for pulling the trigger

 

[Montucky]

Hurts has a below average NFL arm. I think he's going to be Tyrod Taylor. He really didn't play any better than Wentz.

If anyone would rather have Jalen Hurts than Cole Kmet or Jaylon Johnson then they are just operating in bad faith.

 

[Leomaz]

As much as people are scared to death of the Bears drafting Carson Wentz, I don't mind it in this situation, as long as they are only giving up draft picks in the 2021 draft and nothing from beyond.

You have the Bears in a win now mode. Pace and Nagy's jobs depend on it. They aren't going to draft a replacement. That takes too much time to figure out what you have. Time they don't have.

Of the quarterbacks who are out there, Stafford was likely the safest bet. Watson was a fun headline but likely is going to pull a Carson Palmer and sit for a year before he's actually traded since the Texans are not budging on training him this year. The players who are left are the players who are left.

Of all of them, the one who has the highest ceiling was Carson Wentz. The Bears happen to have the quarterbacks coach who was Carson's QB coach when he had his best year. And if he is a head case who feels like he doesn't fit, Nagy's "be you" locker room is his best chance to rehabilitate his mental state.

None of this is to say it will work. But if there is one place where it could work and you could see a tannehill type resurgence, is stupefied as I am to even say this out loud because it's never the Bears, but it actually is the Bears.

No matter what pace does it's going to be a Gamble.

From a fan standpoint looking it this way:

If Carson succeeds we finally have a damn quarterback.

If he fails, we finally get rid of pace and nagy.

And for those worried about the cap hit, it just means whoever will be coming in behind them will draft their own quarterback, and be given the time and patience to develop them. By the time the Bears are out of cap hell, the qb will be ready if they drafted right.

So I am all for pulling the trigger

I would not have been scared of them drafting Carson Wentz

 

[Raskolnikov]

Fuller lost a step and usefulness without Fangio's genius around. Roquan probably requested a contract and threatened to hold out next year. Fuller's contract isn't great and some money and talent needs to go both ways.

Wentz+3rd+5th=Fuller+Foles+Roquan+2021 First+2022 third

Something along those lines. Honestly I don't think Pace will include Fuller. But I think if they are expecting a Stafford price, that would be Roquan and two firsts.

 

[Raskolnikov]

I'm just the be realistic messenger, this is going to be expensive but worth it.

 

[Chicago Staleys]

@Pegger did you read this article? Thoughts? It’s pretty damning....

Inside Carson Wentz’s turbulent season and the forces behind his regression

For many in the Eagles organization, Wentz loomed too large, and the consequence was a young man given far too much rein before he had earned hallowed space on team facility walls.

www.google.com

 

[NCIggles]

That's definitely the most common narrative in Philly talk radio. They also don't understand how Roseman can last through all these regime changes. Some thinks he's a cockroach/snake that is almost immune to the failure and lately some feel Dough Pederson should have stayed and Howie should have gotten the boot.

For me I look at it a little differently. All team's fans dislike their GM to a certain extent. It's just too easy to see other teams do something right and want that for your own team. Here's my take on who Howie Roseman is:

- He's highly regarded when it comes to managing the salary cap and creating contracts.
- He works tirelessly when there's a deal that he thinks can help the team (getting Chip Kelly as a coach or trading up for Wentz are great examples of this).
- He's won a Superbowl - His fingerprints were all over the roster creation.
- He's not afraid to take risks - Some GMs avoid bold moves because they are worried about failure. Howie is always looking for ways to get better and isn't afraid of making a move.

The most common knock is his draft record. I'll agree that he's not good, but no team really is. Pick any team, look at their 10 year history then realize there are more failures than successes. I'd add, he's identified drafting as a weakness and hired people specifically to run that. Joe Douglas comes to mind where he was trying to get some of that Ozzy Newsome influence from Baltimore. His drafts were also bad, but like I said that's more common that you'd think. I'd add players don't progress for a variety of reasons. Some of that is on the team, but a lot of that is on the player. My final point is the team has been in 'win now' mode for the last 4-5 seasons. This has negatively impacted their draft capital. Sure they haven't been good at nailing the pick, but they have also had less picks than most teams, which lowers the overall chance of successful picks.

His reputation of being a great salary cap guru are overblown. They haven't had great cap space since 2017 and they have been doing a lot of moving cap space down the road. Admittedly, despite the huge dead money hit to the cap this season, moving Wentz does create space for the team in 2022. Without trading Wentz, they have a terrible cap situation over the next 2 years in part due to big contracts to aging veterans like Lane Johnson, Brandon Brooks and Darius Slay.

It's always been unclear to me how much he really acknowledges his weaknesses on the personnel side. Yes, he has hired Douglas and now Weidl but he doesn't appear to listen to them. So, it's not just a matter of missing with picks, but also according to multiple reports not listening to his personnel people when making picks. It's been widely reported that he made the Hurts pick in large part because he was influenced by Lincoln Riley on Hurts despite Hurts not being that high on Weidl's board. They had had Chinn and probably a few other picks higher than Hurts. Roseman was convinced that passing on Hurts was akin to passing on Russell Wilson. So what we have his Roseman being influenced by his perception of past mistakes rather than being analytical. There were also reports on Roseman taking Reagor over Jefferson because of what coaches liked vs. the scouts. What drove that decision? Was it that the team had previously drafted Agholor who ultimately was only effective as a slot receiver. I think that is a persistent problem for him. It's an anectdotal and ineffective style and ultimately belies that the Eagles are on the cutting of data driven decision making.

Yes, he has been in win now mode with the team but the moves have been misguided. Moreover, they have not worked. If Lurie is holding his coaching staff accountable for not producing results why isn't Roseman held to the same standard. This is part of the issue that I think is a bigger concern. Roseman is so entwined with Lurie that it is inevitable that he creates dissent within the organization. I mean Roseman orchestrated the firing of Pederson's OC last season. He had Lurie convinced the coaches were the problem rather than the terrible skill players on the team. The dissention between Roseman and Pederson left the team with this hodgepodge of offensive coaches rather than a clear coordinator. This isn't the first time. In some ways, it's always an issue. I think the team needs to move on from him in order to rebuild.

In conclusion, yes the Eagles will take 2 1st round picks and Roquan Smith for Wentz.

 

[fx1718]

His reputation of being a great salary cap guru are overblown. They haven't had great cap space since 2017 and they have been doing a lot of moving cap space down the road. Admittedly, despite the huge dead money hit to the cap this season, moving Wentz does create space for the team in 2022. Without trading Wentz, they have a terrible cap situation over the next 2 years in part due to big contracts to aging veterans like Lane Johnson, Brandon Brooks and Darius Slay.

It's always been unclear to me how much he really acknowledges his weaknesses on the personnel side. Yes, he has hired Douglas and now Weidl but he doesn't appear to listen to them. So, it's not just a matter of missing with picks, but also according to multiple reports not listening to his personnel people when making picks. It's been widely reported that he made the Hurts pick in large part because he was influenced by Lincoln Riley on Hurts despite Hurts not being that high on Weidl's board. They had had Chinn and probably a few other picks higher than Hurts. Roseman was convinced that passing on Hurts was akin to passing on Russell Wilson. So what we have his Roseman being influenced by his perception of past mistakes rather than being analytical. There were also reports on Roseman taking Reagor over Jefferson because of what coaches liked vs. the scouts. What drove that decision? Was it that the team had previously drafted Agholor who ultimately was only effective as a slot receiver. I think that is a persistent problem for him. It's an anectdotal and ineffective style and ultimately belies that the Eagles are on the cutting of data driven decision making.

Yes, he has been in win now mode with the team but the moves have been misguided. Moreover, they have not worked. If Lurie is holding his coaching staff accountable for not producing results why isn't Roseman held to the same standard. This is part of the issue that I think is a bigger concern. Roseman is so entwined with Lurie that it is inevitable that he creates dissent within the organization. I mean Roseman orchestrated the firing of Pederson's OC last season. He had Lurie convinced the coaches were the problem rather than the terrible skill players on the team. The dissention between Roseman and Pederson left the team with this hodgepodge of offensive coaches rather than a clear coordinator. This isn't the first time. In some ways, it's always an issue. I think the team needs to move on from him in order to rebuild.

In conclusion, yes the Eagles will take 2 1st round picks and Roquan Smith for Wentz.

Even Pace would laugh and hang up at that. Essentially 3 firsts one of them a proven all pro level MLB.

 

[NCIggles]

@Pegger did you read this article? Thoughts? It’s pretty damning....

Inside Carson Wentz’s turbulent season and the forces behind his regression

For many in the Eagles organization, Wentz loomed too large, and the consequence was a young man given far too much rein before he had earned hallowed space on team facility walls.

www.google.com

McLane is a good writer but his takes are primarily negative. There was a recent article that refuted some of McLane's article about Wentz just being in conflict with Pederson. Inside the downfall that led to Carson Wentz’s likely exit from Eagles Santoloquito has also written another very critical article about Wentz. Exclusive: Sources inside Eagles paint Carson Wentz as 'selfish,' 'uncompromising' and 'playing favorites'
He also wrote an article after that one acknowledging that Wentz made efforts to reach out to players and be a better team mate. My take is that Wentz is a smart QB that hates losing. I think he's opinionated and can be a difficult teammate. Ultimately, he wants to succeed and has certainly listened to coaches in order to change his game.

 

[NCIggles]

Even Pace would laugh and hang up at that. Essentially 3 firsts one of them a proven all pro level MLB.

I agree - getting Roquan would be ridiculous as would multiple 1st round picks. I think a first round pick would be fair. I could see the team getting players back in order to create cap space for the Bears. I have no expectation that Roquan Smith would be one of those players.

 

[NCIggles]

@Pegger were you ever on the old EMB? There is a new one here: Talk About The Eagles

If anyone wants to come troll some Eagles fans or get some opinions on Wentz, you would be welcome.

 

[NCIggles]

Hurts with his quickness was better suited for the bad blocking, so when you include his running he looked better.

I'm training camp there was a lot of positive things that were said about his deep ball. I'm still wondering if he's an NFL caliber QB.

I like the Tyrod Taylor comparison. I hope he can be better, but truthfully Tyrod isn't that bad.

I think his arm strength would be adequate if he was very accurate and develops a great football sense. I am just not convinced about him and would rather the team keep Wentz. I know Wentz can produce if he's given the right structure and talent. I am not sure about Hurts. If they do trade Wentz, which seems likely, I think they should give Hurts a year as a starter.

 

[TexasBearfan]

I'm trying not to get my hopes up about these trades. I find that's a great way of getting worked up for nothing while also feeling shitty about what you end up getting/giving.

With that being said, I see no need to add Cohen. Boston Scott gives you the same pass catching ability, but can be a 20 carry guy for stints if need be. Seems redundant for a fairly specialized role.

Philly fans are all over the map. Wentz is not a social media guy at all, so once it came out that he wants out of Philly they turned on him. IMHO he's gotta go now and it's Rosemans job to get the most in a trade.

Roseman's still trying to sell GME at 500, except it's at 50 now

 

[Pegger]

@Pegger did you read this article? Thoughts? It’s pretty damning....

Inside Carson Wentz’s turbulent season and the forces behind his regression

For many in the Eagles organization, Wentz loomed too large, and the consequence was a young man given far too much rein before he had earned hallowed space on team facility walls.

www.google.com

Read it when it came out. Like mentioned by @NCIggles, McLane is a fairly negative guy. I'd actually say most of the sports writers with just knowing their fanbase do look for a way to build up a story that fires people up.

Personally I prefer Geoff Mosher and Adam Kaplan. I think they aren't so focused of only the local stories and often explain why teams in general do what they do. Some find them a bit too 'team friendly' and can come across like they know it all, but I feel that's just people not getting the 'hot take' story they want to hear.

As for damning? Not really. It's really what I've been saying all along. He's a type A, needs to be coached hard and is very competitive. The info that came out yesterday that's new is that Wentz really has an issue with Roseman. He's fine with everyone else, but won't take calls from Howie.

I don't know weather this stems from promises not kept or frustration over the Hurts pick or maybe not liking the coaches he put around him. All the same that appears to be what is driving Wentz to say he wants out.

 

[Pegger]

@Pegger were you ever on the old EMB? There is a new one here: Talk About The Eagles

If anyone wants to come troll some Eagles fans or get some opinions on Wentz, you would be welcome.

I was on there, but really stopped going a few years before it eventually got shut down. I actually preferred this board to that one. I found I'd get in the same arguments with the same posters. It was almost like talking religion/politics. Here I give some objective opinion and if someone doesn't like it they just ignore me, which is fine.

 

[Pegger]

I'm just the be realistic messenger, this is going to be expensive but worth it.

Roseman's still trying to sell GME at 500, except it's at 50 now

I combined these two posts for one answer. I think all the 'two firsts' talk was coming from the Eagles side. I mean, if that's what someone has offered this deal would already be done.

I'm thinking Roseman has gotten the best offer from both Indy and Chicago. Neither is what Roseman wants, so he's trying to flush out the random team that comes in the 11th hour and offers a

 

[TexasBearfan]

I combined these two posts for one answer. I think all the 'two firsts' talk was coming from the Eagles side. I mean, if that's what someone has offered this deal would already be done.

I'm thinking Roseman has gotten the best offer from both Indy and Chicago. Neither is what Roseman wants, so he's trying to flush out the random team that comes in the 11th hour and offers a

this one is tricky IMO due to Wentz's season this year, how does anyone know for sure it's not permanent or psychological? I'm old enough to remember when Steve Sax suddenly couldn't throw to first base and it ended his career and when Mark Wohlers got Steve blass disease.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1359174459672780801

 

[cosmodinardo]

McDevitt knows his football.