building a PC and I have some questions...

[xer0h0ur]

Gameworks has even gimped nvidia's own earlier gen cards

This is nothing new and just another of the many fucked up practices they engage in. They don't give any fucks about gimping their customers' older hardware to force them into upgrading since they have their monkeys well trained already to hand them more cash once their cards aren't hacking it anymore. GameWorks specifically employs an exorbitant amount of tessellation and anti aliasing (to the magnitude of 64X and adds anti aliasing to hairworks) to the point of reducing performance quite a bit. They know Maxwell handles tessellation better than Kepler and Fermi did. AMD gave users driver control of tessellation to combat this particular method of gimping and take a wild guess who doesn't allow that? Yup, you guessed it. Nvidia. They also enjoy dropping driver support for previous generations fairly quickly as another method of forcing their users to upgrade. Meanwhile you've got AMD still providing driver support for video cards released in 2011 since they have been steadily using the GCN architecture for a long time.

 

[xer0h0ur]

The reason PC gaming wont ever die is pretty simple.

It can play 98% of the titles that have ever been released on any platform on one system. Potentially 100% of today's games in due time.

It can even play 96% of the titles that were ever released on a free open source operating system(s). Potentially 100% of today's games in due time.

It can be done with any console controller I want.

It can be done while sitting on a couch behind a big screen TV. It can be done behind a desk, on a bed.

It can be done for fairly cheap or expensive.

It can be infinitely expanded.

It can be easy mode or expert mode.

Games scale, can be hacked, modified, expanded to a far greater degree.

It can't die.

^this

They have been calling for the death of PC gaming for as far back as I can remember. Its never going to happen.

 

[botfly10]

This is nothing new and just another of the many fucked up practices they engage in. They don't give any fucks about gimping their customers' older hardware to force them into upgrading since they have their monkeys well trained already to hand them more cash once their cards aren't hacking it anymore. GameWorks specifically employs an exorbitant amount of tessellation and anti aliasing (to the magnitude of 64X and adds anti aliasing to hairworks) to the point of reducing performance quite a bit. They know Maxwell handles tessellation better than Kepler and Fermi did. AMD gave users driver control of tessellation to combat this particular method of gimping and take a wild guess who doesn't allow that? Yup, you guessed it. Nvidia. They also enjoy dropping driver support for previous generations fairly quickly as another method of forcing their users to upgrade. Meanwhile you've got AMD still providing driver support for video cards released in 2011 since they have been steadily using the GCN architecture for a long time.

Its all so fucked because the 9xx series cards aren't really that big of a jump from the 7xx cards.

Its one thing when an upgrade provides enough performance increase that it is actually compelling. But the 9xx series is such a small increment that there is little reason to upgrade from my 780 sli config. So the driver gimping really fucking hurts.

 

[botfly10]

I'm at the point now where I am not gon buy another gpu until enthusiast grade cards are powerful enough to run new titles in at least 1440p at near 144 fps sustained. Might even hold out for 4k 144 fps.

I really want at least 1440 without dips below 100 fps and a gsync monitor.

 

[xer0h0ur]

I'm at the point now where I am not gon buy another gpu until enthusiast grade cards are powerful enough to run new titles in at least 1440p at near 144 fps sustained. Might even hold out for 4k 144 fps.

I really want at least 1440 without dips below 100 fps and a gsync monitor.

Well, the first GPUs capable of sustaining high FPS @ 1440p even in graphically demanding games will likely be Pascal / Arctic Islands since both will get a node shrink, a bump up of double if not near double the transistor count and HBM2 vastly increasing its capacity to allow for a crapload of vRAM at Special person amounts of bandwidth.

You're asking a bit much for 144Hz @ 4K though. Were still barely on DisplayPort 1.2a @ 60Hz. Displayport 1.3 will bump that up to 120Hz whenever the hell they end up putting that into video cards and its going to be a while before there is another jump from that to 144Hz or higher if at all. Even still, if we had DP 1.3 in Pascal / Arctic Islands GPUs then you would still be waiting until the following generation of cards anyways to be able to push that kind of framerate consistently @ 4K.

 

[xer0h0ur]

Its all so fucked because the 9xx series cards aren't really that big of a jump from the 7xx cards.

Its one thing when an upgrade provides enough performance increase that it is actually compelling. But the 9xx series is such a small increment that there is little reason to upgrade from my 780 sli config. So the driver gimping really fucking hurts.

Yup, there is only a large gap between 780 Ti's if you're using 980 Ti's or Titan X's. Otherwise with respect to 980's the 780 Ti's should still be damn close yet they aren't all because of drivers.

 

[Monsieur Tirets]

speaking of gpu drivers, is it better to go with a newer card, even if its technically less powerful, since it will receive better support or should you go for an older technically superior card?

 

[Crystallas]

speaking of gpu drivers, is it better to go with a newer card, even if its technically less powerful, since it will receive better support or should you go for an older technically superior card?

There is no right answer here. It really depends on card to card. Like how it's funny how Creative released a lot of em10xk devices. IIRC they released one not long ago, and you could take a card designed for Windows 8, and run it under Windows 95 too(assuming you have 9x skills and a board/chipset/controllers that are compatible). Just because it used an audio controller that was supported at the end of 9x life.

All of it deals with the chip itself.

 

[botfly10]

At the end of the day, its about your budget. That narrows the available cards down enough that you can compare them without getting overwhelmed.

 

[Monsieur Tirets]

well, for example the new 280x can be had for around the same price as the new 380. they trade blows in benchmarks with the 280x seeming to be the stronger card technically, but with such a small performance gap over the 380(when there is one) wont the 380 take the lead with better optimization going forward?

And then, what about a used 780? thats technically a better card than either, but is getting rather long in the tooth. And it doesnt seem as if nvidia is very good when it comes to supporting their older hardware.

 

[Ares]

MT, when you building this thing?

 

[Monsieur Tirets]

depends, definitely waiting until after skylake drops.

 

[xer0h0ur]

well, for example the new 280x can be had for around the same price as the new 380. they trade blows in benchmarks with the 280x seeming to be the stronger card technically, but with such a small performance gap over the 380(when there is one) wont the 380 take the lead with better optimization going forward?

And then, what about a used 780? thats technically a better card than either, but is getting rather long in the tooth. And it doesnt seem as if nvidia is very good when it comes to supporting their older hardware.

Nvidia is very sparingly providing driver updates for Kepler so be careful going the route of anything older than Maxwell. The only reason AMD's drivers are still supporting as far back as the 7XXX series is because all cards since then are of the GCN architecture so current drivers keep supporting the older cards. So long as they maintain usage of this architecture then users will keep getting the benefits of driver support.

Its always a good idea to take a look at the driver release notes for an idea of what is still being supported.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

What is the fascination with people needing monster rigs with video cards that display over 60 FPS?

I guess I just don't notice much of a difference after that point.

 

[Crystallas]

What is the fascination with people needing monster rigs with video cards that display over 60 FPS?

I guess I just don't notice much of a difference after that point.

Because the games that hit the high frame rates(within notice to that user's eye) are the current games, with a new batch of games already in development that buckle the system ready for release. The idea is to futureproof while enjoying the performance edge while it lasts.

 

[Ares]

Because the games that hit the high frame rates(within notice to that user's eye) are the current games, with a new batch of games already in development that buckle the system ready for release. The idea is to futureproof while enjoying the performance edge while it lasts.

And as anyone who has ever played any kind of competitive FPS will tell you.... if you lag, you die lol

 

[xer0h0ur]

Bad frametimes, input lag, and packet loss are your enemies in online FPS games. I really don't give a shit about my refresh rate. I am playing @ 4K 60Hz without v-sync so it goes waaaaaay past 60 FPS anyways. Then again the only FPS I play is CS:GO which is a DX9 title so not quite graphically demanding. Its the other shit I play that puts the system to its knees. Dying Light, Arkham Knight (mostly because its a shit console port), AC Unity (another shit console port).

 

[Monsieur Tirets]

Im not concerned with 4k 60+fps myself, especially since I have little interest, none really, in competitive online play. I just want to game at 1080p high-ultra setting with around 60fps. A cheap 970 would be awesome. Hell 290s can be had for around 200 bucks if you find the right deal, but then Id have to go with a different case, and even then going with such a hot card would require a larger psu and then Id have to worry about heat still in a small form factor.

Its proving a lot more difficult to put together the perfectly balanced(for me) build than I originally thought. with the 390s being newer and out performing the 970 maybe prices will start coming down on them. I actually saw someone selling one for 200 bucks but that was snatched up instantly.

 

[xer0h0ur]

The only 290's/290X's that run hot are the blower style reference cards because the fan profiles on them are Special person mode. There are plenty of non-reference cards that don't have temperature issues. They do however suck up a good bit of power compared to a Maxwell card. The 970 has a gimped memory sub system that creates problems at 3.2GB of vRAM usage or higher. However since you're planning on running 1080p you shouldn't have many games giving you issues.

 

[Monsieur Tirets]

what would you consider the best bang for your buck cpu in regards to 1080p gaming?