Bulls fire Gar Forman

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Boylen I am hoping is gone once the new Gm is hired and wants to bring in his own coach...I hope.

Karnisovas will be picking the next HC.

 

[knoxville7]

Karnisovas will be picking the next HC.

im sure he has the pull...I would just imagine the new GM will have input on boylens decision, and that decision won’t be made until the new GM is in place

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

im sure he has the pull...I would just imagine the new GM will have input on boylens decision, and that decision won’t be made until the new GM is in place

I kind of feel, at this point, that they are looking to bring in either Nazi or Michael Finley for the GM job, and they'll be learning the job from AK (I'm using this abbreviation until I feel confident spelling the name), so that he can eventually be in that EVP position that isn't running things day to day.

 

[Axl Rose]

I had a Dallas Michael Finley jersey lol. It matched my blue and white AF1's.

 

[Crystallas]

I defended Pax's drafting when people were shitting on him.

But my criticism of his shortcomings are valid. Good players leave or beg for a trade, because Pax *rarely* drafted players who could break tensions. He passed on superior players for guys who he felt were well behaved. He drafted a lot of players that knew how to behave around sheltered white folks or he just drafted white players. Insert a sense of rationalization here, I know the dumb people will run with it, like I just called Pax a racist or pick out one word and forget the whole context. My whole issue is that if you keep Paxson around, I sure as hell hope he isn't drafting players, only contributing to scouting reports and giving input when asked.

How many players spent their whole career in Chicago after getting drafted by John Paxson? Duh, player movement is expected more often in the modern league, but you at least get a decent player to stick around, stay loyal to an organization.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

I defended Pax's drafting when people were shitting on him.

But my criticism of his shortcomings are valid. Good players leave or beg for a trade, because Pax *rarely* drafted players who could break tensions. He passed on superior players for guys who he felt were well behaved. He drafted a lot of players that knew how to behave around sheltered white folks or he just drafted white players. Insert a sense of rationalization here, I know the dumb people will run with it, like I just called Pax a racist or pick out one word and forget the whole context. My whole issue is that if you keep Paxson around, I sure as hell hope he isn't drafting players, only contributing to scouting reports and giving input when asked.

How many players spent their whole career in Chicago after getting drafted by John Paxson? Duh, player movement is expected more often in the modern league, but you at least get a decent player to stick around, stay loyal to an organization.

This whole line of thinking is fucking stupid.

 

[anotheridiot]

I agree with that. Niko wasn't bad, he was just never the difference maker anyone thought he was. Just an incredibly streaky shooter, and frankly someone that disappeared against good competition. Personally, I really wanted him to be that Stretch-4 that could have been the next Dirk (though I'm guessing there will never be another stretch-4 that will put up the volume of numbers Dirk did), it just wasn't meant to be for some reason.

Nico was not bad, but the same as the Porter deal. He had a role, filled a role, eventually they wanted more.Porter was all about threes and D, they have him working off the dribble.

Remember Rose was an excellent pass first point guard, they turned him into a scorer. Spite for LeBron might have won him that MVP with no scoring. Jimmy Butler was a great pick, but look what happened, got sour, nobody wanted to work, maybe that is one of the reasons he fell during the draft. The key is usually find an offensive guy and teach him how to play D, Jimmy was the one in a thousand that had D and found O.

Either way, they were not all shit picks. I still thought they should have been able to keep that 16 pick and get the 7 for butler and not give up our first rounder.

I just hope we get some interested free agents, not just Nugget guys who want to follow him to fill out this roster.

Buying out Felicio should be job 1.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Remember Rose was an excellent pass first point guard, they turned him into a scorer. Spite for LeBron might have won him that MVP with no scoring.

Where have you gotten this idea that Rose was "turned into" a scorer? Genuinely curious.

Also, I don't know what you mean by that second sentence.

 

[jooo83]

Pax is good at draft mostly. 22 years these guys been around and bulls fans still cant figure it out?

the problem is.. if bulls cut ties with paxson other teams would jump on Paxson immediately. Pax can built a team and knows the bulls Org inside out..you don't want that to happen. simple. M.R. giving Pax the advisor is the best thing to do, Pax is somebody M.R trusts.

1) I'm not saying the guy has zero value or ability. But I think you are mistaking Paxson for a far more successful basketball executive. He own nothing here and they moved on for a reason; 2) AK was hired to revamp the organization so the fact that Paxson knows the organization inside out is not nearly as reverent; 3) according to your logic, no long time employees should be let go.

 

[Rob219_CBMB]

This is nuts. Who the hell wants to run their team like the dismal bulls have? What did he build here? Pined for not 1 but 2 Iowa State coaches who were well over their ski's in the NBA. I believe you are sadly mistaken if you ever thought that Gar Forman made any real roster decision. He was a Mickey Loomis / Ryan Pace in New Orleans, the paper pusher period.

Snell, Teague, Denzel.. you'll get the picture, all of them trashy picks are Gar's picks.
Don't forget Gar is a media manipulator. An angry man when questioned about personals and players, there's a reason why Paxson had to take the heat for Jerry's best buddy forever Gar Forman..

 

[Rob219_CBMB]

Come on man, Gar was an excellent scout. He clearly was the better one to keep over Paxson. I would think that maybe they offered him the scout job and he said no.
Gar was nothing but the pen and paper guy for Paxson. He did what he was told. His balls dropped two years ago when he made it clear that some moves were all Pax and that split the Garpax forever. It was always Paxmon, it was just too arcade game to use.

the guy was a damn paranoid delusional narcissists who when through other employers belongings and planted spies in the Org..GAR is a turncoat himself.

 

[Rob219_CBMB]

1) I'm not saying the guy has zero value or ability. But I think you are mistaking Paxson for a far more successful basketball executive. He own nothing here and they moved on for a reason; 2) AK was hired to revamp the organization so the fact that Paxson knows the organization inside out is not nearly as reverent; 3) according to your logic, no long time employees should be let go.

you dont let Pax leave now..let them do their thing then you cut ties. you don't think Paxson knows the plans long term?

 

[Rob219_CBMB]

This is nuts. Who the hell wants to run their team like the dismal bulls have? What did he build here? Pined for not 1 but 2 Iowa State coaches who were well over their ski's in the NBA. I believe you are sadly mistaken if you ever thought that Gar Forman made any real roster decision. He was a Mickey Loomis / Ryan Pace in New Orleans, the paper pusher period.

Five days later, the Bulls hired Fred Hoiberg from Iowa State on a $25 million deal. The move had been telegraphed for some time -- Forman and Hoiberg had been close since Hoiberg's playing days at Iowa State, where Forman was an assistant coach. After Hoiberg played four years for the Bulls to start his NBA career, Forman bought Hoiberg's house when Hoiberg signed with the Minnesota Timberwolves in 2003. Forman said the search for Thibodeau's replacement would extend to "anyone around the country we want to talk to," but the Bulls had already made up their minds.

Nope, i'm not mistaking.

 

[Crystallas]

When the Bulls wanted Hoiberg, I wanted Nick Nurse. AND HE WAS PARTIALLY UNDER A BULLS CONTRACT, when he was coaching the Iowa Energy.

Bulls could have had your Iowa coach AND you would have built a perennial playoff team that was inviting to top free agents. Instead everyone has this hard on for offenses where players sleep at the 3pt line and play unmotivated defense on the other end. So of course, Hoiberg was their choice, even a favorite among a number of posters here (as well as some celebrations when he got hired). L O L

Until Paxson is gone, and his role is TRULY without meaning, then he's going to be seen as this backup plan, similar to how Don Nelson floated around a few teams front offices when those teams had drop offs. Except Don Nelson was actually fucking brilliant.

John Paxson builds shields for himself. That is how he operates, have moles inside, sabotage anything that doesn't go as he liked, bring in people that take the fall for his actions. So even with a new GM, what's stopping Paxson from poisoning the well yet again?

If Art Karnisovas is the sick type that reads fan message boards. Kill the shields, take out the moles, cut out the cancer, or your career will be sacrificed to make John look better than it does right now.

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

Paxson is a big issue but hiring someone from the outside someone new and fresh is at least hopeful good sign

 

[RacerX]

Pax is good at draft mostly. 22 years these guys been around and bulls fans still cant figure it out?

the problem is.. if bulls cut ties with paxson other teams would jump on Paxson immediately. Pax can built a team and knows the bulls Org inside out..you don't want that to happen. simple. M.R. giving Pax the advisor is the best thing to do, Pax is somebody M.R trusts.

 

[anotheridiot]

Where have you gotten this idea that Rose was "turned into" a scorer? Genuinely curious.

Also, I don't know what you mean by that second sentence.

D Roses college game was 15 points a night on 15 shot attempts, usually 3 3 point attempts and 12 2 point attempts. He averaged 5 rebounds and 5 assists.

First four years here he averaged, yes, 15 shot attempts, barely shot threes first two years, had around 6.5 assists per games. Ended up with 5 three attempts his third and fourth year when he was also averaging 7.8 assists per game.

Got hurt, his rebounding and assists went down, both averaged closer to 3 per game.

I know, I paid attention, The argument was he cannot get assists because there was nobody else who could hit a shot, so he started shooting more, becoming my explanation of a scorer.

Not trying to argue, just explaining what you asked.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

In Rose's rookie year he was second on the team in field goal attempts. He was never "turned into" a scorer. He's always been a scorer.

 

[knoxville7]

D Roses college game was 15 points a night on 15 shot attempts, usually 3 3 point attempts and 12 2 point attempts. He averaged 5 rebounds and 5 assists.

First four years here he averaged, yes, 15 shot attempts, barely shot threes first two years, had around 6.5 assists per games. Ended up with 5 three attempts his third and fourth year when he was also averaging 7.8 assists per game.

Got hurt, his rebounding and assists went down, both averaged closer to 3 per game.

I know, I paid attention, The argument was he cannot get assists because there was nobody else who could hit a shot, so he started shooting more, becoming my explanation of a scorer.

Not trying to argue, just explaining what you asked.

you do realize Rose was 2nd on that Memphis team in scoring in his lone freshman season, right? And he took 11 shots per game...which was 1 fewer than Chris Douglass Roberts, Memphis’ leading scorer that season. Rose was always a scorer.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

I used to date a girl from Pontiac, Illinois, and the high school hosted a holiday basketball tournament every year that was one of the biggest in the state. Simeon always played in it. So I saw Rose his sophomore and junior year. I'd guess that over the course of the two tournaments he averaged something like 35. Then he went down the second year to a (surprise, surprise) knee injury. Simeon had no way to make up for his scoring, and they still had 2 other D1 players on that team.