Bushrod gave up 2nd-most QB hurries of any OT in 2012

[BearsFan51]

So where is the discussion of whom the Bears should have signed instead of Bushrod? How can you now say that the discussion was about "the money could have been spent elsewhere"...on what?

And, again, you are completely missing my point, which is that if Webb will remain a starter, shouldn't the issue be a comparison of Bushrod to Carimi/Scott?




Not much to say here except "Wow". I would guess that Emery would be crucified in the media if he did nothing to address the OT position in the offseason and went into 2013 with Webb/Carimi as his OTs...again. Thought that combo was a proven failure. Guess not (?).




No, thats not it. The main issue with Webb wasn't really the amount of pressures he gave up, it was the fact that he single-handedly limited the Bears offense by always requiring help. YOU made the claim that Bushrod received as much help as Webb...I asked for evidence. I see none is forthcoming. You didn't watch the Saints play last year and you've likely not gone back and watched the coach's tape.




The "pressures" stat and the "evidence" you have provided/not provided is speculative by its own nature. To now claim something as "speculative" and not addressing the issue is laughable.

I've watched more tape on Bushrod and Webb than any other poster on this site, I promise you that. Why would I need to grind an axe with Bushrod? I have no reason to hate on the guy he hasn't done anything to hurt the Bears.

People like you are pissed off that someone actually took the time to sit down and do some honest real world analysis on a player. You think that I have some anti-Bears agenda and want to prop up J'Marcus Webb.

You hate the fact that someone like me simply pointed out that Webb was the best offensive lineman on the Bears last season (according to the previously mentioned ProFootballFocus stats everyone is going by) and that Bushrod was the worst performing offensive lineman on the Saints.

You're angry that anyone does honest and or critical analysis of your favorite team..it's like a personal insult to you and to many other posters on this site.

Most fans including yourself have essentially said "Well Phil Emery and Aaron Kromer decided on Bushrod and he's gone to two Pro Bowls, that's good enough for me."

From there you've berated anyone that has something ELSE to bring into the discussion. If Bushrod lights the world on fire next year he'll get due credit, but until he does his body of work speaks for itself. You can try to alter the discussion/perception but all offensive tackles graded and evaluated by ProFootballFocus.com are done so fairly honestly and consistently and their rankings mirror those results.

Those numbers are in fact so trusted by the Bears' staff that they have taken to using their metrics to help in their own evaluations of players.

You can choose to make up your own facts or you can continue to talk at your ass, but the stats aren't going to change, and OBVIOUSLY neither are your biases.

 

[WCL]

I've watched more tape on Bushrod and Webb than any other poster on this site, I promise you that. Why would I need to grind an axe with Bushrod? I have no reason to hate on the guy he hasn't done anything to hurt the Bears.

People like you are pissed off that someone actually took the time to sit down and do some honest real world analysis on a player. You think that I have some anti-Bears agenda and want to prop up J'Marcus Webb.

You hate the fact that someone like me simply pointed out that Webb was the best offensive lineman on the Bears last season (according to the previously mentioned ProFootballFocus stats everyone is going by) and that Bushrod was the worst performing offensive lineman on the Saints.

You're angry that anyone does honest and or critical analysis of your favorite team..it's like a personal insult to you and to many other posters on this site.

Most fans including yourself have essentially said "Well Phil Emery and Aaron Kromer decided on Bushrod and he's gone to two Pro Bowls, that's good enough for me."

From there you've berated anyone that has something ELSE to bring into the discussion. If Bushrod lights the world on fire next year he'll get due credit, but until he does his body of work speaks for itself. You can try to alter the discussion/perception but all offensive tackles graded and evaluated by ProFootballFocus.com are done so fairly honestly and consistently and their rankings mirror those results.

Those numbers are in fact so trusted by the Bears' staff that they have taken to using their metrics to help in their own evaluations of players.

You can choose to make up your own facts or you can continue to talk at your ass, but the stats aren't going to change, and OBVIOUSLY neither are your biases.

You're completely delusional.

 

[BearsFan51]

So why would they sign Bushrod? Makes no sense.

It's the question everyone is asking and was asked. As a result this was Emery's response

There will be plenty of time to evaluate Bushrod this season and Bears fans will be able to judge for themselves how much of an upgrade he is over Webb. Right now the historical numbers are on the side of the people who have critical things to say about him.

 

[iueyedoc]

Because he's improved every season so far? You're the one looking at things beyong his play. I have no response to it because all I care about as a Bear fan is his play and things that can get him suspended like busts. If he's good enough to be better than the next guy with these so called mental issues, I'm OK with it.

Non-criminal off field stuff only matters if it influences his play, agreed. Jim McMahon partied like a rock star, but no one doubted his preparedness or will. I think anyone saying JWebb does all he can to succeed at his craft would have to be looked at dubiously. And I guess going from the worst ranked OT in football to 53 out of 65 starters( going by PFF PBE Article) in three years is an improvement, but he is entering his 4th yr in the NFL. At some point he will peak and at this rate it would take until he is 35 to crack the top 30. If Krommer has the magic mojo to make him average or better great, but I just don't see how that will ever happen. I hope they are able to find some solution to an above average RT soon.

 

[botfly10]

You're completely delusional.

This. Guy makes some good points - and then goes off on some delusional rampage over some imaginary/projected response.

 

[BearsFan51]

Non-criminal off field stuff only matters if it influences his play, agreed. Jim McMahon partied like a rock star, but no one doubted his preparedness or will.

That's the biggest line of bullshit I've read all day. McMahon was benched by Ditka because he questioned his will to win and play and his preparedness. McMahon and Ditka constantly had problems because Ditka constantly questioned how serious McMahon was about football. Read McMahon's book and it will tell you all you need to know about McMahon's and Ditka's relationship.

 

[botfly10]

I've watched more tape on Bushrod and Webb than any other poster on this site, I promise you that. Why would I need to grind an axe with Bushrod? I have no reason to hate on the guy he hasn't done anything to hurt the Bears.

People like you are pissed off that someone actually took the time to sit down and do some honest real world analysis on a player. You think that I have some anti-Bears agenda and want to prop up J'Marcus Webb.

You hate the fact that someone like me simply pointed out that Webb was the best offensive lineman on the Bears last season (according to the previously mentioned ProFootballFocus stats everyone is going by) and that Bushrod was the worst performing offensive lineman on the Saints.

You're angry that anyone does honest and or critical analysis of your favorite team..it's like a personal insult to you and to many other posters on this site.

Most fans including yourself have essentially said "Well Phil Emery and Aaron Kromer decided on Bushrod and he's gone to two Pro Bowls, that's good enough for me."

From there you've berated anyone that has something ELSE to bring into the discussion. If Bushrod lights the world on fire next year he'll get due credit, but until he does his body of work speaks for itself. You can try to alter the discussion/perception but all offensive tackles graded and evaluated by ProFootballFocus.com are done so fairly honestly and consistently and their rankings mirror those results.

Those numbers are in fact so trusted by the Bears' staff that they have taken to using their metrics to help in their own evaluations of players.

You can choose to make up your own facts or you can continue to talk at your ass, but the stats aren't going to change, and OBVIOUSLY neither are your biases.

In the future, please do your masturbating in private. Thanks.

 

[BearsFan51]

But if Webb is still in the starting lineup, wouldn't it also be a judgement of how much an upgrade Bushrod is over Carimi/Scott? I swear I've asked you this 10 times now.

I answered that question like seven pages ago, not yours specifically but it was answered. I already said Bushrod's arrival improves the offensive line as a whole based on what we saw from Scott and Carimi's knee.

The question no one has asked about Carimi is how much will he improve on a healthy knee, is his problematic pass protection problem a result of still learning the positioin. As an example Wisconsin was 116th in the nation in total pass attempts during the 2010 season, Carimi's senior year. When you have a player that still need to pass protect at the NFL level, and has a knee problem in the same season, but goes out and is one of the best run blocking offensive tackles in the NFL during his second season it would seem a little premature to quit on him. Carimi should have been given the chance to compete in training camp against Webb, at the very least.

Also Carimi's lack of experience didn't in pass protection didn't bode well for him, it will be key to see how well Kyle Long does with so little experience himself.

 

[KittiesKorner]

yeah, no one has asked that about Carimi.

christ

 

[KittiesKorner]

all this thread needs now is some vintage warlock posts giving out workout tips to walter payton so that he could make it in today's NFL

 

[WCL]

I've watched more tape on masturbation than any other poster on this site.

I like to think of myself as an amateur beat reporter.

 

[iueyedoc]

That's the biggest line of bullshit I've read all day. McMahon was benched by Ditka because he questioned his will to win and play and his preparedness. McMahon and Ditka constantly had problems because Ditka constantly questioned how serious McMahon was about football. Read McMahon's book and it will tell you all you need to know about McMahon's and Ditka's relationship.

You must not read your own posts then. You top every one of your last posts with an even dumber, less informed posts.

Ditka didn't agree with McMahons methods, his will to win was ever questioned.

Against the Vikings in 1985, McMahon after being in the hospital two days earlier and with a leg infection came in and threw 3 TD's in 7 pass plays to lead the Bears to victory. Then went back in the hospital after that game.

Again, the point is if he's getting it done on the field, what he does off the field within the constraints of the law shouldn't matter.

Far be it for you to comprehend anyone's point of a post. But a first would be nice.

 

[iueyedoc]

I've watched more tape on Bushrod and Webb than any other poster on this site, I promise you that. Why would I need to grind an axe with Bushrod? I have no reason to hate on the guy he hasn't done anything to hurt the Bears.

People like you are pissed off that someone actually took the time to sit down and do some honest real world analysis on a player. You think that I have some anti-Bears agenda and want to prop up J'Marcus Webb.

You hate the fact that someone like me simply pointed out that Webb was the best offensive lineman on the Bears last season (according to the previously mentioned ProFootballFocus stats everyone is going by) and that Bushrod was the worst performing offensive lineman on the Saints.

You're angry that anyone does honest and or critical analysis of your favorite team..it's like a personal insult to you and to many other posters on this site.

Most fans including yourself have essentially said "Well Phil Emery and Aaron Kromer decided on Bushrod and he's gone to two Pro Bowls, that's good enough for me."

From there you've berated anyone that has something ELSE to bring into the discussion. If Bushrod lights the world on fire next year he'll get due credit, but until he does his body of work speaks for itself. You can try to alter the discussion/perception but all offensive tackles graded and evaluated by ProFootballFocus.com are done so fairly honestly and consistently and their rankings mirror those results.

Those numbers are in fact so trusted by the Bears' staff that they have taken to using their metrics to help in their own evaluations of players.

You can choose to make up your own facts or you can continue to talk at your ass, but the stats aren't going to change, and OBVIOUSLY neither are your biases.

Actually, most people come on here to discuss opposing view points. Everyone just thinks you are a know nothing asshole that thinks watching hours of video some how imparts automatic superiority on your opinion. It would be interesting to have someone with nfl scout abilities on this site, but that aint you. You lack even the basic skills to add and subtract and spoon fed salary cap info comes back up like a bulimic school girls lunch.

 

[FirstTimer]

Wait.. I'm confused. Is someone actually defending the performance of Webb/Carimi/Scott?

 

[MakeMyDay]

Thanks. I hope we can be friends now.

Not a chance...

 

[hyatt151]

I agree with everything Rory just said except the constantly needing help part. Overstated and Bushrod got a similar amount, if not by bodies, than by rollouts. It could be argued he got more help overall but really, it's not the issue here. It's more about having a more complete player at a pivotal position and improving his bookend at the same time.

If Ms. Spock needs any help living long and prospering, give me a call.

 

[hyatt151]

I have a "Bear Fever", and the only cure is. MORE BUSHROD!

 

[iueyedoc]

I have a "Bear Fever", and the only cure is. MORE BUSHROD!

 

[remydat]

I don't think Webb got as much help in 2012 as people suggest he did. First off, Carimi was a revolving door at RT and Scott was pretty bad there too. Not to mention the interior of the line was terrible too. So if someone has metrics out there that suggest Webb got help given all the other problems on the line I would sure like to see it.

What can't be argued is that collectively they Bushrod and Webb are a much better tandem on paper than Webb and Carimi/Scott. Carimi in 374 snaps had a Pass Block Efficiency rating of 89.7. Scott in 175 snaps was at 91.3. As I noted before Webb was at 94 and Bushrod at 93.6. So if we normalized their hurries, hits and sacks for the 557 passing plays the Bears had last year, it would break down as follows.

Carimi, 10.4 sacks, 13.4 hits, 49.1 hurries.
Scott, 3.2 sacks, 15.9 hits, 44.6 hurries.
Busrod, 3 sacks, 6.4 hits, and 36.7 hurries.
Webb, 7 sacks, 5 hits, and 30 hurries.

 

[remydat]

As for time in the pocket. Cutler had the 10th highest time to throw in the league. Most likely a large reason for that was his ability to scramble. His time to throw was 2.79 seconds. Brees was 15th at 2.73 most likely because of his quick release. Cutler held the ball 4.28 seconds on his sacks which was 2nd in the league behind only Cam Newton. RGII and Russel Wilson were 3rd and 4th. Brees was 19th at 3.62 seconds. In terms of time to throw on just pass attempts (ie excluding sacks), Cutler was 17th at 2.57 seconds and Brees was 8th at 2.68 seconds.

Now you can read into that whatever you want but what I gather from the above is that scramblers have a tendency to hold the ball too long on their sacks. This is pretty consistent with one of the big criticism Cutler has received over the course of his career and given he has more time on his sacks than even RGII and Russel Wilson suggests to me that this criticism is valid. Meanwhile Brees is well known as a guy who gets rid of the ball quickly and this seems to be born out in his numbers. So it it is difficult to judge how much Bushrod was aided by Brees getting rid of the ball vs how much Webb was hindered by Cutler's tendency to hold onto the ball.

Likewise, it is interesting to note that Brees had a 73% completion percentage (3rd) and a 113 QB rating (2nd) when he got rid of the ball in 2.5 seconds or less while Cutler had 63.5% completion percentage (19th) and 84.5 QB rating (21st) on those passes. Unfortunately PFF doesn't tell you how much total pressure a QB faced in these situations so perhaps Cutler is throwing it under more duress in this situations.

Bottom line though is the stats can go either way. You could argue Bushrod is aided a lot by having Brees as a QB or you could argue Cutler is hindered by having Webb as a LT. Or you could argue that Bushrod and Webb are fairly similar.