CCS: lebron is the best at everything

[houheffna]

Maybe because he knows it's going to happen regardless of what he says. Jordan is the best player ever IMO, but that doesn't mean he's the best talent evaluator. Kwame Brown anybody?

And I do know what I'm watching. I've watched a guy play the same amount of minutes Jordan did, take way more shots, make less shots, and shoot a lower percentage and have way less assists and steals. IN THE SAME AMOUNT OF MINUTES PLAYED! I didn't say Kobe was dumb, you said that. I said he has a low BBIQ, which I think he does. I also said that lebron has a higher BBIQ than Kobe does and that Jordan himself has a higher BBIQ than Kobe does, of which i feel both are true statements. You're just hellbent on proving me wrong. Which I don't get.

If I'm so wrong, why respond to me? And, I'm not trying to be anything more than civil with you. I'm not interested in arguing with you.

I apologize for being uncivil...but you are wrong, across the board. And a lot of people that don't have a clue have "laced up"...doesn't mean a whole lot to me.

Player Comparison Finder | Basketball-Reference.com

 

[Glide2keva]

I apologize for being uncivil...but you are wrong, across the board. And a lot of people that don't have a clue have "laced up"...doesn't mean a whole lot to me.

Player Comparison Finder | Basketball-Reference.com

That's not the same amount of minutes played. I was talking about when they had the same amount of minutes played. Also, I never said Kobe wasn't great. And yes I did amend my statement, but Jordan had a higher BBIQ than Kobe. I don't get what's so hard to understand about that.

lacing up may not mean nothing to you, but if you haven't played the game, then how can you know anything about it, other than ESPN telling you what to think?

 

[houheffna]

That's not the same amount of minutes played. I was talking about when they had the same amount of minutes played.

The spreadsheet shows that Kobe didn't shoot as many shots over 16 years as Jordan did over 13. I excluded Jordan's last two years, one of those years he shot the ball over 20 times and shot 41% from the field (Jordan must have gotten basketball stupid in his older age...).

Jordan shot 4 more times a game over that span through the course of his career.

 

[thechosenone]

I was looking for this video, but couldn't find it. Thank you for posting it.

Michael Jordan was the smartest,the most talented,the most skilled and the best player ever played the game by far.And the best player ever played in a team sport by far.He is a league by himself.You exclude him from the conversation and then you start talking about other players.

So having MJ excluded from the conversation and talking about this year's league,Kobe is one of the smartest players in the league.Maybe Nash and CP3 are smarter than him.Maybe.His only problem is that he is selfish sometimes and he plays for himself and not for his teammates.

 

[houheffna]

That's not the same amount of minutes played. I was talking about when they had the same amount of minutes played. Also, I never said Kobe wasn't great. And yes I did amend my statement, but Jordan had a higher BBIQ than Kobe. I don't get what's so hard to understand about that.

lacing up may not mean nothing to you, but if you haven't played the game, then how can you know anything about it, other than ESPN telling you what to think?

I never said Jordan didn't have a higher IQ, you said Kobe had a low IQ and I commented that the statement was silly.

By the way, Jordan, according to Roland Lazenby, considered Kobe worthy of comparison to Jordan because of Kobe's work ethic, because of how much Kobe put into learning the game and making himself better. Not for the reason you gave.

 

[inactiveuser1]

I don't know what that means...support what? I think he is the best player in the league by a sizable margin and I think he is the most talented player in NBA history. I also think most of the hate he gets is undeserved. I don't support him the way I did Hakeem in the 1990's, matter of fact, I have never rooted for Lebron. But I wanted him to come to Chicago more than anything.

Support as in cheer for is what I meant. And are you sure he's the most talented? He is probably the most athletic but I honestly don't know if he's the most talented, he is one of though for sure. I wouldn't hate him if it weren't for the one hour special dubbed "The Decision"

 

[Uman85]

Jordan > Kobe > lebron

 

[Glide2keva]

I never said Jordan didn't have a higher IQ, you said Kobe had a low IQ and I commented that the statement was silly.

By the way, Jordan, according to Roland Lazenby, considered Kobe worthy of comparison to Jordan because of Kobe's work ethic, because of how much Kobe put into learning the game and making himself better. Not for the reason you gave.

Kobe worked his ass off to make himself better and it paid off. What he didn't do was learn how to fully incorporate into the team framework. My opinion is that lebron is a smarter player than him. Maybe I wrong for saying its fact. But if you watch them both play, you should that lebron makes smarter plays more consitently than Kobe does.

If you can get your shot any time you want to, why not facilitate your team and pick your spots. That's what puts Jordan over him. To me, Kobe plays like if he gives up the ball, it makes him less. He almost doesn't want anyone else to shine. That's not smart basketball. To me anyway.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Yes he was a better decision maker early in his career. He's not doing that now on a consistent basis.

he's always averaged a rather large number of TOs per game(partly because of high usage) he has good vision..but he makes quite a few mistakes as well

i agree with your statement..but at the same time...he turned it over alot even before he was in miami..now its just gotten worse

Of course, but with a guy like Kobe, it's the most glaring aspect of his game. He also doesn't make the right play a lot of the time. And that is attributed to him being selfish and not wanting anyone else to shine but him. Look at how he plays with bynum and pau. They don't get as many touches as they should because Kobe doesn't get them the ball.

pau hasnt been that great this year...bynum isnt a prolific offensive player

kobe doesnt let anyone but him to shine? hyperbole much? he is really competitive...thats alot of it

and the leading scorer in the NBA...he takes interesting shots..but part of it is he knows he can make them and that fade away is basically his go to move when you got the best defender on the opposing team usually on you..not to mention double teams

ya..lebron has that too but he isnt 33 and is much stronger....kobe is more reliant on midrange partly because of those two things

Look at his last 6 games as an example.

11 of 29
11 of 24
10 of 26
6 of 16
7 of 23
9 of 21

54 of 139 = 38% FG = 27 PPG while averaging 3 assists a game.

kobe has shot around 45% for the season..he's having a cold streak..it happens

kobe isnt a point and never has been..its also an issue that mike brown isnt a big fan of the triangle offense...

That's not smart basketball. Bynum and Pau get hardly any touches, so their production suffers. If he cut down on his shots, run the offense and get the ball inside, he'd have better shots and his FG% would go up. Thus I say he has a low BBIQ, because he flat out refuses to get this.

??? they're both averaging around 16-17 PPG and getting 12-14 shots per game...how many touches should they be getting...gasol has taken a step back and bynum occasionally breaks out offensively but he honestly is still a little raw

In this regard lebron is a smarter player and thus has a higher BBIQ than Kobe.

lebron has better vision

but a big reason why lebron is so good offensively is because he is just gifted with physical tools and strength..

and while kobe has good physical tools as well..i dont think he can revolve his offense around using those tools especially with age

kobe compensates for this...and scores on craftiness more than physical strength and speed

also a key thing we're missing here is defense...lebron excels on defense because of his size,length,strength

but kobe imo is a smarter defender and is better 1 v 1 than lebron is(who excels more in help and transition because of his tools)

i also feel part of basketball IQ is being able to control the game psychologically..which kobe is probably one of the best at offensively and defensively

kobe also knows how to close games on a consistent basis..which ties in to reacting and assessing changing situations on the basketball floor

lebron isnt a bad closer either...but in terms of being cerebral at the end of games...i'm not so sure i put lebron close to kobe

ask most NBA players and coaches who has the better basketball IQ and its probably kobe most times

i remember there was an interview where someone asked Kobe to define basketball IQ..i'll find it later but it was interesting

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

i think hou brought up a good point, while lebron has improved since he came into the nba, he does not nearly have the competitive drive and work ethic kobe does imo

and really its not about lebron improving what he can do strength wise, and speed wise, but lebron with work ethic could improve how he can impact the game sans through physical play(i.e. some finesse post game, using feet,moving without the ball, reacting to different situations,etc.)

part of the reason kobe has been able to be so good for so long with all the mileage on his legs is because his game does not revolve around physical ability as much as lebron does..it revolves around being able to control the game and understanding situations

if kobe didnt have a great basketball IQ..he probably would have declined a lot more than he has

 

[Glide2keva]

I like the last two points brought up. It's true that Kobe doesn't rely on physical speed and strength as much as lebron does. That's more a function of him being more of a jump shooter than ttacking the basket.

Kobe's skill works for making himself look good, but not much else. I do agree that his on ball defense is better than lebron's, but as stated lebron is the better help defender. I still however think that kobe's bbiq isn't as high as you make it out to be. Like I said and even in the video posted a page back or two. Kobe doesn't make smart plays consistently.

Kobe is jacking up more games of 28 shots than anyone this season.he's ignoring his teammates. You haven't heard the grumblings from Pau and Bynum? Even guys on Inside The NBA are talking about it.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I like the last two points brought up. It's true that Kobe doesn't rely on physical speed and strength as much as lebron does. That's more a function of him being more of a jump shooter than ttacking the basket.

because he isnt that type of player(atleast anymore)

when he gets to the basket...he does it through craftiness rather than physical strength and speed

Kobe's skill works for making himself look good, but not much else. I do agree that his on ball defense is better than lebron's, but as stated lebron is the better help defender. I still however think that kobe's bbiq isn't as high as you make it out to be. Like I said and even in the video posted a page back or two. Kobe doesn't make smart plays consistently.

well again kobe isnt a PG..i think another issue as i brought up is adjusting to mike brown as a coach..meaning less triangle..and triangle worked really well with kobe..and it was needed because the lakers have no guy who can actually RUN the point

btw kobe is averaging 5.2 assists on the season..which is still pretty damn good for an off guard

lebron is the better help but the reason i brought up defense has to do with what makes lebron and kobe separately good defenders...

kobe's defensive prowess has a bit to do with psychological control, meaning he's good with the mental game and also being able to read the person he's guarding

lebron's more about physical strength and ability,as well as length...its easier for lebron to help because his length enables him to cover a big distance

dont think its much of a stretch to say that kobe is better IQ wise in that department

i dont think lebron has terrible basketball IQ, or kobe is the very best, but i think kobe is definitely better

Kobe is jacking up more games of 28 shots than anyone this season.he's ignoring his teammates. You haven't heard the grumblings from Pau and Bynum? Even guys on Inside The NBA are talking about it.

i dont think you can say that kobe taking 25 shots per game in itself is dumb when that is his game and it was working alot earlier in the season

he should be taking a couple less shots...but kobe has alot of confidence

basically, as i said, he's in a cold streak

i never said that kobe shouldnt look more for pau and bynum..but i feel the issue is a little overblown

 

[Glide2keva]

Be that as it may. His 5 assists don't mean they are going to the big men for easy shots in the paint. He doesn't need to average a lot of assists to be effective at passing the ball. What I mean is, him being a bit of a ball stopper stagnates the offense and allows the defense to set up and key in on him because they know he isn't passing it.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

It is an insult to KOBE himself to have people mention Lebitch in the same sentence.
Kob is lightyears away from Lebron and his jewery proves it.....Until Lebron has a ring, shut your dam mouths.

 

[RC_Skinny22]

Just a thought on the assist numbers:

It is easier to get assists being inside and kick out the ball to a shooter who will shoot directly! Lebron for example does that.

Kobe is not inside, he is the shooter!

And even if Kobe passes the ball to a big who posts up, if the big dribbles about three times before he actually makes a move to the basket (what they ofen do), it doesn´t count as an assist then because the big took to long to get up the shot!

Therefore the assist numbers are a little lower. I gotta check that out but I think in general SFs have a higher APG than Sgs!

 

[Glide2keva]

Just a thought on the assist numbers:

It is easier to get assists being inside and kick out the ball to a shooter who will shoot directly! Lebron for example does that.

Kobe is not inside, he is the shooter!

And even if Kobe passes the ball to a big who posts up, if the big dribbles about three times before he actually makes a move to the basket (what they ofen do), it doesn´t count as an assist then because the big took to long to get up the shot!

Therefore the assist numbers are a little lower. I gotta check that out but I think in general SFs have a higher APG than Sgs!

That's why I'm not using assists as an example. Not every pass leads to an assist. It's more about running the play and not breaking the play, just to get your shot up.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Kobe Bryant in his prime is one thing.

Right now, LeBron James > Kobe Bryant and there is no denying it.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Kobe Bryant in his prime is one thing.

Right now, LeBron James > Kobe Bryant and there is no denying it.

in terms of IQ, no

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Be that as it may. His 5 assists don't mean they are going to the big men for easy shots in the paint. He doesn't need to average a lot of assists to be effective at passing the ball. What I mean is, him being a bit of a ball stopper stagnates the offense and allows the defense to set up and key in on him because they know he isn't passing it.

his 5 assists does mean he is facilitating though, in that he is able to look for teammates and they are able to make plays

the defense would key on kobe regardless of what's going on in the offense because he's kobe

 

[nwfisch]

in terms of IQ, no

Meh. Lebron did decide to join Miami.