Celtics fall to Grizzlies, Miami is our real competition

[RamiTheBullsFan]

No it's not exactly what happened last year. Last year their defense fell away because they were taking it easy. This year their defense is still there. They're a team that's trying to win games they just can't because they can't score enough points.

Well, okay. Obviously nothing is ever exactly the same of how they happen in 2 different years. But last year it was actually much worse for the Celtics. And they were struggling on the boards and defense to go along with their struggles on offense. KG, Pierce, Perkins, and Rondo were all playing hurt.

A lot of their problems this time have to do with not having Rajon Rondo playing well. He's going through one of his drama queen and/or pedestrian phases.

If he snaps out of it, Boston might be the team to beat in the NBA (if Shaq gets back).

 

[houheffna]

Well, okay. Obviously nothing is ever exactly the same of how they happen in 2 different years. But last year it was actually much worse for the Celtics. And they were struggling on the boards and defense to go along with their struggles on offense. KG, Pierce, Perkins, and Rondo were all playing hurt.

A lot of their problems this time have to do with not having Rajon Rondo playing well. He's going through one of his drama queen and/or pedestrian phases.

If he snaps out of it, Boston might be the team to beat in the NBA (if Shaq gets back).

Last year was NOT much worse because Ainge didn't make a trade that demoralized the team and emboldened their opponents. Simmons just yesterday was talking about the reaction from coast to coast after Perkins got traded and it was pretty much the same..."we don't fear the Celtics anymore..."

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Last year was NOT much worse because Ainge didn't make a trade that demoralized the team and emboldened their opponents. Simmons just yesterday was talking about the reaction from coast to coast after Perkins got traded and it was pretty much the same..."we don't fear the Celtics anymore..."

When you look at the difference in KG's lateral movement and aggressiveness and rebounding, in itself, it does look much worse last season. The Celtics were a team that could not rebound at a devent level at all.

Like I pointed out, if Shaq comes back, it won't be the same defensive intensity as what Perkins brings, but it will be a force to be reckoned with alongside KG at the 4.

The Celtics are sitting at 50+ wins with 9 games left to go in a much improved Eastern Conference.

Last year they finished the season with 50 wins total. And they went 27-27 after a 23-5 start.

 

[houheffna]

When you look at the difference in KG's lateral movement and aggressiveness and rebounding, in itself, it does look much worse last season. The Celtics were a team that could not rebound at a devent level at all.

Like I pointed out, if Shaq comes back, it won't be the same defensive intensity as what Perkins brings, but it will be a force to be reckoned with alongside KG at the 4.

The Celtics are sitting at 50+ wins with 9 games left to go in a much improved Eastern Conference.

Last year they finished the season with 50 wins total. And they went 27-27 after a 23-5 start.

Shaq can't be depended on to do what Perkins can do. Nor was he brought in for that reason....last year they would win some pretty big games down the stretch...the games THEY felt were important. And they knew they were getting their "Championship 5" back...which is what Doc preached, they were undefeated when that 5 were healthy in the playoffs.

Aren't you the guy who said the Celtics would blow the Bulls out in a 7 game series as long as Garnett was on the floor even if Rondo was out for the whole series? I don't see any team in the East blowing this Bulls team out, including the Celtics...

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Shaq can't be depended on to do what Perkins can do. Nor was he brought in for that reason....last year they would win some pretty big games down the stretch...the games THEY felt were important. And they knew they were getting their "Championship 5" back...which is what Doc preached, they were undefeated when that 5 were healthy in the playoffs.

Aren't you the guy who said the Celtics would blow the Bulls out in a 7 game series as long as Garnett was on the floor even if Rondo was out for the whole series? I don't see any team in the East blowing this Bulls team out, including the Celtics...

Yeah, I understand all of that. But don't underestimate the importance of a big body in there to allow Garnett to guard the likes of a guy like Noah/Gasol as opposed to a guy like Bynum/Boozer. Shaq is a guy who can make life difficult for a team's best low-post scorer and allow KG to roam, contest shots, and get into the passing lanes.

And it's not like the Celtics gave up when Kendrick Perkins was finally spent and had to sit out of Game 7 in Los Angeles. Rasheed Wallace stepped up and played some great defense. He just couldn't rebound worth a damn and that is why the Celtics weren't champs last year. Shaq can. Shaq is one of the most dominant defensive rebounding forces in the league (not only with his rebounding itself, but with his ability like practicular no other to box guys out completely).

I did say that I think the Bulls would lose to Boston even without Rajon Rondo if everybody else was there. I actually think it could have been a 4 game sweep. But I did say that it could be a close game every single game of that series no matter if it was 4-0 or 4-3.

 

[houheffna]

Yeah, I understand all of that. But don't underestimate the importance of a big body in there to allow Garnett to guard the likes of a guy like Noah/Gasol as opposed to a guy like Bynum/Boozer. Shaq is a guy who can make life difficult for a team's best low-post scorer and allow KG to roam, contest shots, and get into the passing lanes.

And it's not like the Celtics gave up when Kendrick Perkins was finally spent and had to sit out of Game 7 in Los Angeles. Rasheed Wallace stepped up and played some great defense. He just couldn't rebound worth a damn and that is why the Celtics weren't champs last year. Shaq can. Shaq is one of the most dominant defensive rebounding forces in the league (not only with his rebounding itself, but with his ability like practicular no other to box guys out completely).

I did say that I think the Bulls would lose to Boston even without Rajon Rondo if everybody else was there. I actually think it could have been a 4 game sweep. But I did say that it could be a close game every single game of that series no matter if it was 4-0 or 4-3.

Shaq is not going to be able to consistently give 30 minutes a game, Jermaine O'Neal will get some tick too. Both are way past the prime of their careers and I think the Bulls would rather face Shaq than to face Perkins in the paint when it comes to Boston's defense. That is why players in Boston are somewhat depressed over Perkins leaving....

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Shaq is not going to be able to consistently give 30 minutes a game, Jermaine O'Neal will get some tick too. Both are way past the prime of their careers and I think the Bulls would rather face Shaq than to face Perkins in the paint when it comes to Boston's defense. That is why players in Boston are somewhat depressed over Perkins leaving....

Yeah, I also think it was a boneheaded trade. Especially in terms of this season... The whole dynamics of the team has changed. Fortunately for them, Green is a versatile defender. The bad news is that if Shaq doesn't give you at least 20 minutes per-game then that is perhaps 20 extra minutes that KG will need to fill Perkin's old role as the enforcer and Green will need to step into KG's role as the pick-and-roll / roaming defender.

The good news for Boston is Davis is a big body. The bad news is that he is way too short to be very effective defending dominant guys like Boozer or especially Bynum (and too rebound against those guys).

 

[houheffna]

Yeah, I also think it was a boneheaded trade. Especially in terms of this season... The whole dynamics of the team has changed. Fortunately for them, Green is a versatile defender. The bad news is that if Shaq doesn't give you at least 20 minutes per-game then that is perhaps 20 extra minutes that KG will need to fill Perkin's old role as the enforcer and Green will need to step into KG's role as the pick-and-roll / roaming defender.

The good news for Boston is Davis is a big body. The bad news is that he is way too short to be very effective defending dominant guys like Boozer or especially Bynum (and too rebound against those guys).

I agree, you could have put Perkins on Boozer and Garnett on Noah. Now? Garnett guards Boozer because Big Baby is too short and Boozer can take Shaq off the dribble and draw fouls on him because Shaq has cinder blocks for feet at this point. So who will keep a premier rebounder, on the best rebounding team in the league off the boards?

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I agree, you could have put Perkins on Boozer and Garnett on Noah. Now? Garnett guards Boozer because Big Baby is too short and Boozer can take Shaq off the dribble and draw fouls on him because Shaq has cinder blocks for feet at this point. So who will keep a premier rebounder, on the best rebounding team in the league off the boards?

That's why I almost feel like Perkins is just as if not moreso valuable than Rondo in terms of a series vs. CHI. Since Perkins is gone, that solid defensive rebounding is gone. And the defensive roles are going to be completely different and much easier to exploit for the Bulls. Before, it was the undisputed best defensive frontcourt (KP+KG) in the entire league.

Rondo means a lot for that on-ball defense, in the passing lanes, in transition defense, and in transition offense. But I still think if Rondo was out and Perkins was there then the Celtics would be at least slight favorites against the Bulls. Then again... back when I said that, I did not realize Delonte West would be in piss poor shape and hurting.

 

[Shakes]

Well, okay. Obviously nothing is ever exactly the same of how they happen in 2 different years. But last year it was actually much worse for the Celtics. And they were struggling on the boards and defense to go along with their struggles on offense. KG, Pierce, Perkins, and Rondo were all playing hurt.

A lot of their problems this time have to do with not having Rajon Rondo playing well. He's going through one of his drama queen and/or pedestrian phases.

If he snaps out of it, Boston might be the team to beat in the NBA (if Shaq gets back).

Really I think people are reading too much into last year, so for one time a team that looked bad turned it around. 9 times out of 10 if a team looks like they're crashing and burning they are. Maybe lightning strikes twice but I still really don't fear Boston at all right now.

And Shaq? Against the Bulls I love that matchup, Shaq can't move. He's not going to be able to get out and help on Rose, and he doesn't have a hope of guarding Noah either. He might be more useful against the Magic (at least it's 6 hard fouls on Howard) or the scrubs the Heat have at center though. I hope so, I really hope Boston can knock the Heat out, they're the one team I really wouldn't feel like the Bulls are strong favourites against.

 

[houheffna]

Yeah, I understand all of that. But don't underestimate the importance of a big body in there to allow Garnett to guard the likes of a guy like Noah/Gasol as opposed to a guy like Bynum/Boozer. Shaq is a guy who can make life difficult for a team's best low-post scorer and allow KG to roam, contest shots, and get into the passing lanes.

And it's not like the Celtics gave up when Kendrick Perkins was finally spent and had to sit out of Game 7 in Los Angeles. Rasheed Wallace stepped up and played some great defense. He just couldn't rebound worth a damn and that is why the Celtics weren't champs last year. Shaq can. Shaq is one of the most dominant defensive rebounding forces in the league (not only with his rebounding itself, but with his ability like practicular no other to box guys out completely).

I did say that I think the Bulls would lose to Boston even without Rajon Rondo if everybody else was there. I actually think it could have been a 4 game sweep. But I did say that it could be a close game every single game of that series no matter if it was 4-0 or 4-3.

"BOS would destroy CHI without Rondo as long as they are healthy. "

"KG/Davis > Boozer/Taj
Shaq/KP/JO uhhh let's say = Noah

Rose > West/Robinson... sure

But... Paul Pierce and Ray Allen destroy Deng and Brewer...

I'd say 4-1 Boston... 4-2 if the Bulls were lucky. "

Those were your quotes on the matter...while you passing out crow...fix a plate for yourself man...lol...unless you still believe what you said back then...

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Boston doesn't look good in the games I have seen them in, with the exception of the New York game where they did away with the Knicks when they wanted to. Miami is the scary team. 2 of the top 5 players in the league on that team and Bosh playing better since adjustments have been made. I would much rather play Boston than Miami...

I'm half and half on it. Miami is playing a lot better, whether people want to acknowledge it or not. Boston has the experience, but you always worry about how teams like that can keep their legs.

Really, it all matters with how it seeds out and if we get home court. Let them beat up on each other for 7 games.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

The Miami team has played 0 playoff games together as currently constructed. Right now, it looks like they'll play either New York or Philly. New York did beat Miami on Miami's home court with Carmelo Anthony.

I can't take Miami seriously until they win a playoff series.

We all have seen what Boston can do, and by their strong playoff past, I see them as a bigger threat right now.

I love the Bulls, but they've got a lot to prove in the playoffs and a lot to live up to this year now.

Neither have the Bulls.

 

[houheffna]

I'm half and half on it. Miami is playing a lot better, whether people want to acknowledge it or not. Boston has the experience, but you always worry about how teams like that can keep their legs.

Really, it all matters with how it seeds out and if we get home court. Let them beat up on each other for 7 games.

Exactly right, my hope is that Boston is healthy enough to give Miami headaches if not beat them...

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

"BOS would destroy CHI without Rondo as long as they are healthy. "

"KG/Davis > Boozer/Taj
Shaq/KP/JO uhhh let's say = Noah

Rose > West/Robinson... sure

But... Paul Pierce and Ray Allen destroy Deng and Brewer...

I'd say 4-1 Boston... 4-2 if the Bulls were lucky. "

Those were your quotes on the matter...while you passing out crow...fix a plate for yourself man...lol...unless you still believe what you said back then...

With Shaq healthy too, it would have been a whole different ballgame. That's a tall order to beat a team with KG, KP, and Shaq as a main frontcourt rotation (and JO and Davis as even more depth). If Delonte West was healthy too then I still can't see the Bulls winning that series.

 

[houheffna]

With Shaq healthy too, it would have been a whole different ballgame. That's a tall order to beat a team with KG, KP, and Shaq as a main frontcourt rotation (and JO and Davis as even more depth). If Delonte West was healthy too then I still can't see the Bulls winning that series.

Delonte can't run that offense and guard Rose at the same time. It would be asking too much to ask him to do that. Rondo does it as well as anybody in the league...the two guys I have seen guard Rose the best this year...Hinrich and Rondo. Both of them have struggled quite a bit themselves.

I stand by my statement that if Boston's top guy offensively is out and they are dominated as you stated by the Celtics, Rose is very overrated...

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Delonte can't run that offense and guard Rose at the same time. It would be asking too much to ask him to do that. Rondo does it as well as anybody in the league...the two guys I have seen guard Rose the best this year...Hinrich and Rondo. Both of them have struggled quite a bit themselves.

I stand by my statement that if Boston's top guy offensively is out and they are dominated as you stated by the Celtics, Rose is very overrated...

Delonte West was one of the better perimeter defenders in the league so it's not like Rose would have exploited him much differently than anyone else around the NBA. He's no Rondo but not exactly chopped liver either. I still think that the Celtic offense and defense would be at least as good as the Bulls. Pierce, Allen, and KG all have great passing skills to make up for some of the absense of Rondo.

 

[houheffna]

Delonte West was one of the better perimeter defenders in the league so it's not like Rose would have exploited him much differently than anyone else around the NBA. He's no Rondo but not exactly chopped liver either. I still think that the Celtic offense and defense would be at least as good as the Bulls. Pierce, Allen, and KG all have great passing skills to make up for some of the absense of Rondo.

Well we are making progress..."at least as good" is better than nullifying Rondo's role by saying that Celts dominate the Bulls...I stress that Rondo is the most important part of the Celtics offense.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Well we are making progress..."at least as good" is better than nullifying Rondo's role by saying that Celts dominate the Bulls...I stress that Rondo is the most important part of the Celtics offense.

I'd argue that player is Pierce. And maybe even KG is 2nd and Rondo would be a not-so-distant 3rd.

 

[Shawon0Meter]

I was listening to an interview with KC Johnson from the trib today and he said Orlando was the worst match-up for the Bulls. That surprised me a bit