Chicago Cubs 2023-24 OFFSEASON thread

[Bearcub13]

Cubs don’t really need starting pitching tbh. They need a reliever or two and 2 bats with at least one being a lefty power bat

Couldn't agree less, we nly have one elite starter (Steele), everybody else are not the type of pitchers you want to go into a playoff series with.

 

[CSF77]

Couldn't agree less, we nly have one elite starter (Steele), everybody else are not the type of pitchers you want to go into a playoff series with.

Adding a play off arm is more of a deadline priority. Off season is more about the 162 grind.

The priorities should be replacing Bellinger's bat. 3B and 1B.

As far as a SP goes as of right now they have Assad and Wicks as the 4/5. You could go in with one of them for the season or roll with both and get Horton ready for mid season.

 

[knoxville7]

Couldn't agree less, we nly have one elite starter (Steele), everybody else are not the type of pitchers you want to go into a playoff series with.

steele, taillon, hendricks, assad, wicks, with Horton looming as the potential ace of the rotation or at least a very good #2 starter. plus depth guys like kilian, brown, smyly, and wesneski is plenty of arms for the starting rotation

i think in todays baseball of starters only going 5 innings anyways, its more important to have impact arms in the bullpen. and the glaring holes of a left handed power bat in the lineup with 3b and 1b holes are more important to fill along with bullpen help

 

[Bearcub13]

Adding a play off arm is more of a deadline priority. Off season is more about the 162 grind.

The priorities should be replacing Bellinger's bat. 3B and 1B.

As far as a SP goes as of right now they have Assad and Wicks as the 4/5. You could go in with one of them for the season or roll with both and get Horton ready for mid season.

The Cubs didn't miss the post season because they couldn't hit, they missed because the last two weeks of the season they couldn't get anybody out...at the end of the game the only thing that matters is scoring at least one more run than your opponent.

 

[CSF77]

The Cubs didn't miss the post season because they couldn't hit, they missed because the last two weeks of the season they couldn't get anybody out...at the end of the game the only thing that matters is scoring at least one more run than your opponent.

They need to address open spots that the team is not substandard.

Chicago Cubs Stats | FanGraphs Baseball

All the 2018 Cubs batting and pitching stats, standings, depth charts, roster notes, schedule/results, news and analysis.

www.fangraphs.com

As of right now the team is Mad and Mervis as your opening day corner IF. That is pretty fucking substandard

 

[Castor76]

They need to address open spots that the team is not substandard.

Chicago Cubs Stats | FanGraphs Baseball

All the 2018 Cubs batting and pitching stats, standings, depth charts, roster notes, schedule/results, news and analysis.

www.fangraphs.com

As of right now the team is Mad and Mervis as your opening day corner IF. That is pretty fucking substandard

I don't think anyone has suggested the team is good to go as is, especially on offense. I believe the point was perhaps having a strong bullpen is more important than going after starters since most starters don't even go 6 innings anymore. To have enough depth in the pen, they need 5 guys they can depend on to lock down a game from the 6th on. After that they need another 5 guys they can rotate from AAA to the MLB team to eat innings after bad starts.

 

[CSF77]

Cubs, Reds Have Discussed Shane Bieber With Guardians

The Cubs and Reds are among the many teams who've discussed a potential Shane Bieber trade with the Guardians. Read more at MLB Trade Rumors.

www.mlbtraderumors.com

 

[CSF77]

I don't think anyone has suggested the team is good to go as is, especially on offense. I believe the point was perhaps having a strong bullpen is more important than going after starters since most starters don't even go 6 innings anymore. To have enough depth in the pen, they need 5 guys they can depend on to lock down a game from the 6th on. After that they need another 5 guys they can rotate from AAA to the MLB team to eat innings after bad starts.

They need a lot right now. There is a bit too much faith in AAA to adjust properly.

I'm ok with 1 regular and a pen in rotation and a starter in development.

Too much going on for my tastes

Which means PCA and Wicks as the rookies and then trade/sign stability I'm 100% good with it.

That is why 1B and 3B should be the priority.

If Jed pulls a Beiber trade and they could expand it to get their 3B. Then sign Hoskins for 1B. At that point wait and see with Ohtani having Mervis as a back up plan at DH.

I do agree with the pen as 6 innings is the standard.

Pen is this:

Alzolay
Leiter
Marryweather


Middle innings
Smyly
Little
Escobar (just signed)


So this is 3 lefties and 3 righties.

They are in on Stephenson and have Killian and Brown in the mix. If they get a starter then Assad becomes a middle arm.

 

[Bearcub13]

I don't think anyone has suggested the team is good to go as is, especially on offense. I believe the point was perhaps having a strong bullpen is more important than going after starters since most starters don't even go 6 innings anymore. To have enough depth in the pen, they need 5 guys they can depend on to lock down a game from the 6th on. After that they need another 5 guys they can rotate from AAA to the MLB team to eat innings after bad starts.

I will write this again, no manager in MLB history has ever gone to the GM and said " we have way too much good pitching". Pitching is the gold standard in MLB, most of the public pays more attention to position players, but the manager knows those position players are worthless without an excellent staff. We still need starting and relief pitching, the 6 inning thing is still a starting pitcher reducing the amount of time the relievers have to pitch. Would you rather turn it over to the relievers with a lead or behind?

 

[beckdawg]

There's a lot of chatter around cubs and trades this offseason. I think something missing from the discourse though is the fact that the cubs *need* to trade players. Their 40 man roster situation is going to be packed in the coming years. So, repurposing several decent prospects for a proven player just makes sense whether that's the Juan Soto's of the world or whether its Bieber/Glasnow/Burnes of the world.

 

[CSF77]

Christopher Morel Flashed Some Stellar Third Base Defense in the DR, Which Makes Me Wonder About His Position Again - Bleacher Nation

Christopher Morel clearly has the ability to be a good defensive third baseman. The question is whether he can do it consistently.

www.bleachernation.com

 

[CSF77]

There's a lot of chatter around cubs and trades this offseason. I think something missing from the discourse though is the fact that the cubs *need* to trade players. Their 40 man roster situation is going to be packed in the coming years. So, repurposing several decent prospects for a proven player just makes sense whether that's the Juan Soto's of the world or whether its Bieber/Glasnow/Burnes of the world.

After Ohtani decides I would expect Jed to become more aggressive. Right now it seems he is kicking tires and avoiding any major payroll decisions

 

[Castor76]

I will write this again, no manager in MLB history has ever gone to the GM and said " we have way too much good pitching". Pitching is the gold standard in MLB, most of the public pays more attention to position players, but the manager knows those position players are worthless without an excellent staff. We still need starting and relief pitching, the 6 inning thing is still a starting pitcher reducing the amount of time the relievers have to pitch. Would you rather turn it over to the relievers with a lead or behind?

I don't disagree. What is being brought into question is where to spend to upgrade which part of the staff. I truly think that if the Cubs, including ownership, are serious about adding Ohtani, then adding contracts which total around 100M in AAV is on the table as Ohtani alone doesn't get it done for making the Cubs certified contenders. If Ohtani does come to Chicago, they will still need to add one impact bat and pitching. For purpose of discussion, they would probably be thinking around 25M for pitching after Ohtani. That could either be one of the remaining upper level starters or perhaps 3 bullpen arms. Of course trades are still very much on the table and Cease is a less expensive option money wise which would still leave over 15M for 2 good pen arms. If they also managed to get Bichette from Toronto it would save more money to the point of forgoing the 2 pen arms and the 15M and going after Yamamoto with a 25-27M offer instead. I don't think any of us would complain if the rotation in 24 was Cease, Steele, Yamamoto, Taillion, and Hendricks with the idea slotting Ohtani in to replace Hendricks in 25.

 

[CSF77]

I don't disagree. What is being brought into question is where to spend to upgrade which part of the staff. I truly think that if the Cubs, including ownership, are serious about adding Ohtani, then adding contracts which total around 100M in AAV is on the table as Ohtani alone doesn't get it done for making the Cubs certified contenders. If Ohtani does come to Chicago, they will still need to add one impact bat and pitching. For purpose of discussion, they would probably be thinking around 25M for pitching after Ohtani. That could either be one of the remaining upper level starters or perhaps 3 bullpen arms. Of course trades are still very much on the table and Cease is a less expensive option money wise which would still leave over 15M for 2 good pen arms. If they also managed to get Bichette from Toronto it would save more money to the point of forgoing the 2 pen arms and the 15M and going after Yamamoto with a 25-27M offer instead. I don't think any of us would complain if the rotation in 24 was Cease, Steele, Yamamoto, Taillion, and Hendricks with the idea slotting Ohtani in to replace Hendricks in 25.

I would think that Bieber or Glasgow are far more likely

Jed has Horton a year out to replace a starter.

The question is Bieber who has lost velocity but is more consistent or Glasgow who has better stuff at this point but innings issues

As far as the pen goes I'm ok with what they have. If Ohtani signs elsewhere then Jed should use that payroll towards a rounded team targeting substandard areas first.

Doing nothing with the pen is not going to kill this team. They are getting pretty much all back and have more knocking on the door at Iowa.

What hurt them was injury not a lack of talent.

So getting to the main point. They need to replace Bellenger, Candy, Stroman. That is just to get to last year.

 

[Castor76]

I would think that Bieber or Glasgow are far more likely

Jed has Horton a year out to replace a starter.

The question is Bieber who has lost velocity but is more consistent or Glasgow who has better stuff at this point but innings issues

As far as the pen goes I'm ok with what they have. If Ohtani signs elsewhere then Jed should use that payroll towards a rounded team targeting substandard areas first.

Doing nothing with the pen is not going to kill this team. They are getting pretty much all back and have more knocking on the door at Iowa.

What hurt them was injury not a lack of talent.

So getting to the main point. They need to replace Bellenger, Candy, Stroman. That is just to get to last year.

No shit it's more likely. I wouldn't touch Glasnow unless as part of a discount for Yandy Diaz. Bieber is at least cheap. But if I'm trading for stating pitching, I'm going for Cease before either of those for money cost, expected performance, and control.

Stroman's number are replaced simply from getting full seasons form Hendrick and Taillion. Candelario wasn't with the team long enough to have made a real impact. The only real replacement is for Bellinger.

You could say what hurt them last year in the pen was a lack of depth magnified by injury. They can look to fill from within and that's fine. They could also think having a stacked pen is what would make the team most effective, sort of like how KC won their title in 2015. The Royals hoped their starters gave up no more than 2 through 5 or 3 through six and turned it over to their pen to lock out the rest of the game and get enough offense to win. It worked enough for them.

I don't know what the right answer is. I do know that teams generally get less than 6 IP a game from their starters so having a deep pen is essential. That small group of 4 or 5 guys you can rotate from AAA to the MLB team to eat the bad start innings will be important to keeping the lock down guys fresh for the games that matter. Only 3 teams last year had less than 550 IP for the relievers. A team is going to need 9-10 guys they can spread those over if they hope to have a fresh enough pen in October/November.

 

[CSF77]

No shit it's more likely. I wouldn't touch Glasnow unless as part of a discount for Yandy Diaz. Bieber is at least cheap. But if I'm trading for stating pitching, I'm going for Cease before either of those for money cost, expected performance, and control.

Stroman's number are replaced simply from getting full seasons form Hendrick and Taillion. Candelario wasn't with the team long enough to have made a real impact. The only real replacement is for Bellinger.

You could say what hurt them last year in the pen was a lack of depth magnified by injury. They can look to fill from within and that's fine. They could also think having a stacked pen is what would make the team most effective, sort of like how KC won their title in 2015. The Royals hoped their starters gave up no more than 2 through 5 or 3 through six and turned it over to their pen to lock out the rest of the game and get enough offense to win. It worked enough for them.

I don't know what the right answer is. I do know that teams generally get less than 6 IP a game from their starters so having a deep pen is essential. That small group of 4 or 5 guys you can rotate from AAA to the MLB team to eat the bad start innings will be important to keeping the lock down guys fresh for the games that matter. Only 3 teams last year had less than 550 IP for the relievers. A team is going to need 9-10 guys they can spread those over if they hope to have a fresh enough pen in October/November.

Waste of resources.

If they sign 1 of the Japanese pitchers and then trade for Bieber then Assad and Wicks end up in MR.

Far better to do that.

If you are talking Hader and moving Alzolay to set up I could see that

But overloading MR blocks the farm from rotating in fresh arms.

So your point is pointless

 

[CSF77]

Not to mention KCself developed their pen that led to that year. It was not facilitated by F/A.

Yet again pointless point

 

[CSF77]

But my prediction is:

Jed signs a starter.
Assad moves to the main middle relief with Smyly.

Leiter and Merryweather will set up Alzolay

The rest will be influx. Hayden might step up as his stuff is plain nasty. But he has to harness it.

 

[Castor76]

Waste of resources.

If they sign 1 of the Japanese pitchers and then trade for Bieber then Assad and Wicks end up in MR.

Far better to do that.

If you are talking Hader and moving Alzolay to set up I could see that

But overloading MR blocks the farm from rotating in fresh arms.

So your point is pointless

It's like you don't even read posts before responding to them. I said Bieber was an option, just not one I'd explore before trying for Cease as he's better. Trading for Cease cost more in resources. Better players tend to cost more. Cease is a 4 player deal while Bieber is essentially straight up for Ferris. Performance and control cost.

I also mentioned they'd need to rotate guys from AAA up to the majors and back so there'd be little to no blocking. You put 6 names in a previous post about slots in the pen already taken. I pointed out they'll need 3-4 more for next season.

I said filling from within was fine. So what was that you were saying about pointless points there Mr. Obtuse? KC had to self develop as they don't have the resources the Cubs have. Or do you want the Cubs to be more like KC than the Dodgers? I know which one I prefer.

Given that I think it's about 75% that Ohtani goes to the Dodgers while only 15% he goes to the Cubs, my dream offseason at this point is bring back Bellinger (8Y220M), sign Yamamoto (10Y250M) and Hader (6Y110M), and then blow Boston away with a deal for Devers giving up Morel, Triantos, Ferris, and Drew Gray. If I had to swap out Brown for Ferris, I'd still do it. That's 100M in AAV contracts but sets them up for the near future to be in a strong WS window while mostly dealing from expendable depth. And before you say there's no way Boston would do that, Devers for Morel alone is almost enough as Devers has a trade value of 27 to Morel's 23.2. Cubs would be paying about 1.75 on the dollar overall.

 

[CSF77]

It's like you don't even read posts before responding to them. I said Bieber was an option, just not one I'd explore before trying for Cease as he's better. Trading for Cease cost more in resources. Better players tend to cost more. Cease is a 4 player deal while Bieber is essentially straight up for Ferris. Performance and control cost.

I also mentioned they'd need to rotate guys from AAA up to the majors and back so there'd be little to no blocking. You put 6 names in a previous post about slots in the pen already taken. I pointed out they'll need 3-4 more for next season.

I said filling from within was fine. So what was that you were saying about pointless points there Mr. Obtuse? KC had to self develop as they don't have the resources the Cubs have. Or do you want the Cubs to be more like KC than the Dodgers? I know which one I prefer.

Given that I think it's about 75% that Ohtani goes to the Dodgers while only 15% he goes to the Cubs, my dream offseason at this point is bring back Bellinger (8Y220M), sign Yamamoto (10Y250M) and Hader (6Y110M), and then blow Boston away with a deal for Devers giving up Morel, Triantos, Ferris, and Drew Gray. If I had to swap out Brown for Ferris, I'd still do it. That's 100M in AAV contracts but sets them up for the near future to be in a strong WS window while mostly dealing from expendable depth. And before you say there's no way Boston would do that, Devers for Morel alone is almost enough as Devers has a trade value of 27 to Morel's 23.2. Cubs would be paying about 1.75 on the dollar overall.

Cease will cost more and has walk issues.

No trade option is perfect.

Cease has walk issues but puts up innings and strike outs.

Glasgow is the best talent but has innings issues.

Bieber has degraded for a few years. His so% has dropped by 1/2.

So when you look at it from the Cubs perspective they all have warts and you want to give up the least.

Or just target one of the Japanese arms and spend cash only.