comparing after 2011 season to now

[chibears55]

im interested in reading what the majority on here think about weather they feel the cubs are in a better position now moving forward or if they were better off where they were after the 2011 season..

after the 2011 season they had just completed a 2nd 90 lost season, with over 30 players nearing or at the end of their contracts.
they had a minor league system with basically no one to call up to replace any of these players.

now, they have an improved system with players near ready to move up or could be moved up in the near future..
they also have a younger core of major league players establishing themselves..


i feel their in a better position now then they were after the 2011 season mainly because the system has improved not only with some quality players but because they have established quantities thru draft, trades, and international signings which will give them more of a chance to get a solid player(s) thru their system.
i also think having a younger core playing on the major league level now and playing well, is also a much needed improvement over where they were at after the 2011 season with the end of the road veterans..


so, just interested in reading how you feel where their at now compared to where they were after the 2011 season..

keep in mind the topic.. this isnt about what they couldve done or should do in the future, its only about what they finished with after 2011 and what they have now.

 

[Franko725]

OH LORD....

 

[chibears55]

OH LORD....

its a good topic to discuss if it stays on topic..
im not saying im 100% right for how i feel, and dont expect everyone to look at it the way i do.. so just putting it out there to see how everyone else looks at it.

 

[KBisBack!]

i
keep in mind the topic.. this isnt about what they couldve done or should do in the future, its only about what they finished with after 2011 and what they have now.

Keep in mind your original point was the 2010 or 2011 team and were provided facts how the 2010 organization is exactly like the franchise now despite the throwing away of multiple major league seasons to make no progress other than increased profits.

You had no answer to my factual response so had to divert the conversation into an entirely new thread instead of actually responding to the first post.

 

[KBisBack!]

its a good topic to discuss if it stays on topic...

As was my topic on how no teams threw away a couple seasons and immediately had long term success that I posted.

That was until you and the other slurpers knew they didn't have a response to the facts and instead whined and cried.

 

[Franko725]

its a good topic to discuss if it stays on topic..
im not saying im 100% right for how i feel, and dont expect everyone to look at it the way i do.. so just putting it out there to see how everyone else looks at it.

I agree with you on what you said there...

But still, you have to know where this is going to lead.

 

[KBisBack!]

I agree with you on what you said there...

But still, you have to know where this is going to lead.

I KNOW I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE THIS IS GOING TO LEAD!!!!

Which is why I have pointed out how much a waste it is to throw away seasons in the name of building the farm system when you can do the exact same thing putting way more resources and having an actual competitive team at the major league level that you and many others have been brainwashed into believing is impossible.

 

[chibears55]

As was my topic on how no teams threw away a couple seasons and immediately had long term success that I posted.

which is why i moved this to another thread, so you can keep your topic and have it stay on topic..

this is just to compare where they were after 2011 to where their at now..

 

[KBisBack!]

this is just to compare where they were after 2011 to where their at now..

Of which I have already provided a position by position breakdown of how the team is no better now than at the end of the 2010 season.

You had no factual response to that breakdown, so you ignored those facts and diverted attention to an entire new thread where again you have provided no substantial input into the question.

The answer is still the same. Little to no progress at the major league level and little to no progress at the minor league level and two completely wasted major league seasons that we are supposed to be happy about.

 

[CSF77]

If they approach this season as if they are out of it by the dead line they subtract and continue re-tooling that is fine. Teams that are much better do the same.

If they are in the race and they add then that is a normal process. Fine with that.

If they subtract while in it just to sell and it causes them to fall again into a top 10 pick please hand over the barf bag.

 

[The Bandit]

2011 Roster

C Soto
1B Pena
2B Barney
SS Castro
3B Rammy
Lf Sori
Cf Bryd
RF Fuku

SPs
Dempster
Wells
Garza
Z
Rodrigo Lopez

Rp
sucked I'll only mention Marshall Wood(wasn't that good) Marmol and Russell.

bench
Reed
campana
hill
colvin
Lahair
Baker

2013

C Castillo
1B Rizzo
2b Barney
SS Castro
3b Valbuena
Lf Sori
Cf Dejesus
Rf Shierholtz

Sps
Garza
Wood
Jackson
Shark
Feldmen/Villanueva

Rps
Marmol
Gregg
Russell
2 japs and shit.

bench

Navarro
Hairston and shit.

so let's see here.

C Soto<Castillo. Sorry but outside of 08 when Soto won ROY he flat out blew
1B Pena<Rizzo younger and bats a better average with similar defense.
2b same
ss same
lf same
cf Byrd<or = Dejesus I'd lean towards Dejesus since he's I believe cheaper and Byrd fell off the map plus the PEDs
RF Fukudome/Colvin=Shierholtz meh to all.

Sps

Garza same
Dempster<Shark **** dumpster I hated watching the guy pitch and he dicked around at the deadline and pissed off a lot of people
Wells<Jackson Jackson pitching like he is now is still worth more then Randy Wells after a season and a half. Where is he now again?
Z<Wood need I really commment
Lopez<Feldmen/Villanueva ^

BP they both blow epic ballsack

Bench again both blow massive dick

Yes I think we are better off, we're younger, and more solid.

 

[Boobaby1]

2011 Roster

C Soto
1B Pena
2B Barney
SS Castro
3B Rammy
Lf Sori
Cf Bryd
RF Fuku

SPs
Dempster
Wells
Garza
Z
Rodrigo Lopez

Rp
sucked I'll only mention Marshall Wood(wasn't that good) Marmol and Russell.

bench
Reed
campana
hill
colvin
Lahair
Baker

2013

C Castillo
1B Rizzo
2b Barney
SS Castro
3b Valbuena
Lf Sori
Cf Dejesus
Rf Shierholtz

Sps
Garza
Wood
Jackson
Shark
Feldmen/Villanueva

Rps
Marmol
Gregg
Russell
2 japs and shit.

bench

Navarro
Hairston and shit.

so let's see here.

C Soto<Castillo. Sorry but outside of 08 when Soto won ROY he flat out blew
1B Pena<Rizzo younger and bats a better average with similar defense.
2b same
ss same
lf same
cf Byrd<or = Dejesus I'd lean towards Dejesus since he's I believe cheaper and Byrd fell off the map plus the PEDs
RF Fukudome/Colvin=Shierholtz meh to all.

Sps

Garza same
Dempster<Shark **** dumpster I hated watching the guy pitch and he dicked around at the deadline and pissed off a lot of people
Wells<Jackson Jackson pitching like he is now is still worth more then Randy Wells after a season and a half. Where is he now again?
Z<Wood need I really commment
Lopez<Feldmen/Villanueva ^

BP they both blow epic ballsack

Bench again both blow massive dick

Yes I think we are better off, we're younger, and more solid.

And you can look at it this way. Payroll on the 2011 team was 134 million. Payroll this year is at 106 million. So just for the sake of argument, the Cubs could have not signed Jackson and Stewart, picked up Chavez, Hamilton, and Anibal Sanchez and been at 136 millonish in payroll.

Now, judging by Jacksons struggles, Stewarts inability to even stay on a major league roster, and Hamilton just flat out being a massive upgrade in the middle of the line-up with the Cubs struggling offensively, I find it very possible that with those additions and subtractions, the Cubs could very well be in the same neighborhood as the Pirates and Reds and only being 2-1/2 games (or closer) behind the red hot Cardinals.

Parrish the thought that fielding a competitive team is such a bad thing to do while the farm is still developing and the Cubs are still drafting high.

BTW, this is all happening without Garza and Baker who have yet to see the diamond this year. Deduct Baker, and the Cubs would actually have a lesser payroll than 2011, and still could have Schierholtz, Valbuena, and Hairston on the bench. =)

 

[chibears55]

And you can look at it this way. Payroll on the 2011 team was 134 million. Payroll this year is at 106 million.

could also go as part of the reason why their in better position today then at the end of 2011..

they had the extra payroll and they still sucked along with not having anything going for them in the system..

now they have a system that improved along with some younger core players on the roster and money to spend..

 

[Boobaby1]

Queue the people who will say that free agents wouldn't come here to begin with contrary to what Theo has stated, and that they are also much happier being where the Cubs are in the standings right now because this is supposedly how this whole thing is suppose to work.

 

[nwfisch]

Anyone who thinks this current roster is worse than the one in 2011 is out of touch IMO.

Even though I wish Theo and Ricketts made more of a concerted effort to sign a FA or two, I thought the ones they signed fit needs and can be traded.

Hopefully the farm produces a star or two in the next 3 years and that Theo/Ricketts aren't afraid to overspend on a piece once Sori's deal is done.

 

[Franko725]

And you can look at it this way. Payroll on the 2011 team was 134 million. Payroll this year is at 106 million. So just for the sake of argument, the Cubs could have not signed Jackson and Stewart, picked up Chavez, Hamilton, and Anibal Sanchez and been at 136 millonish in payroll.

Now, judging by Jacksons struggles, Stewarts inability to even stay on a major league roster, and Hamilton just flat out being a massive upgrade in the middle of the line-up with the Cubs struggling offensively, I find it very possible that with those additions and subtractions, the Cubs could very well be in the same neighborhood as the Pirates and Reds and only being 2-1/2 games (or closer) behind the red hot Cardinals.

Parrish the thought that fielding a competitive team is such a bad thing to do while the farm is still developing and the Cubs are still drafting high.

BTW, this is all happening without Garza and Baker who have yet to see the diamond this year. Deduct Baker, and the Cubs would actually have a lesser payroll than 2011, and still could have Schierholtz, Valbuena, and Hairston on the bench. =)

OT post not related to original topic:

Chavez has a higher BA, but similar numbers to Valbuena overall, for about four times the money.

Hamilton has been down right awful this year, and the money that he is getting paid over the next few years is quite hefty.

Sanchez was using the Cubs to get the contract he wanted out of the Tigers. Only way he would have signed with the Cubs is if the Tigers had told him to go pack sand.

 

[mountsalami]

this is just to compare where they were after 2011 to where their at now..

Then provide the facts if this is your topic.

Don't wait for someone else to do it for you, then complain.

You have got to be bearz99. You provide the same stupidity that he does.

 

[Boobaby1]

could also go as part of the reason why their in better position today then at the end of 2011..

they had the extra payroll and they still sucked along with not having anything going for them in the system..

now they have a system that improved along with some younger core players on the roster and money to spend..

And how exactly does what I stated stop the core players? In no way does it hinder Shark, Russell, Castro, and Rizzo. If anything, it adds to the core because Sanchez and Hamilton are players that won't need to be flipped and the Cubs can build and focus in on other areas.

 

[chibears55]

Hopefully the farm produces a star or two in the next 3 years and that Theo/Ricketts aren't afraid to overspend on a piece once Sori's deal is done.

this is just my thinking and hoping im right, i could be wrong and what they do this offseason could tell me if i am or not BUT..

first sori money has nothing to do with them spending or not the last 2 yrs.. 18 mil for a guy who hits 25+ HR and drives in runs is chump change IMO..

i think the spending on core FAs they want to stick and be a part of their future will come once theyve established their system and have a young core on their major league roster which they have somewhat established both to date..
thats why because they have money to spend , they will be able to field a competing team quicker once theyre ready to spend on big name/above avg. FAs

 

[nwfisch]

this is just my thinking and hoping im right, i could be wrong and what they do this offseason could tell me if i am or not BUT..

first sori money has nothing to do with them spending or not the last 2 yrs.. 18 mil for a guy who hits 25+ HR and drives in runs is chump change IMO..

i think the spending on core FAs they want to stick and be a part of their future will come once theyve established their system and have a young core on their major league roster which they have somewhat established both to date..
thats why because they have money to spend , they will be able to field a competing team quicker once theyre ready to spend on big name/above avg. FAs

I sure hope so. I've held the belief that Ricketts don't have the resources to field a competitive MLB team, but we'll see soon enough in due time.