comparing after 2011 season to now

[The Bandit]

And how exactly does what I stated stop the core players? In no way does it hinder Shark, Russell, Castro, and Rizzo. If anything, it adds to the core because Sanchez and Hamilton are players that won't need to be flipped and the Cubs can build and focus in on other areas.

You're also missing the point of if we signed Hamilton and Sanchez that we would have lost picks. Thus slowing the farms improvement.

 

[chibears55]

And how exactly does what I stated stop the core players? In no way does it hinder Shark, Russell, Castro, and Rizzo. If anything, it adds to the core because Sanchez and Hamilton are players that won't need to be flipped and the Cubs can build and focus in on other area

s.

my response was off of you comparing the two payrolls..

they tried to get sanchez he chose to stay with the tigers...

have you seen what josh hamilton took from the angels to sign with them.. 17,17,25,32,32
how much more cause it wouldve cost alot more , do you think it wouldve cost the cubs to offer hamilton to join them

as much as we would like to think everyone wants to play for the cubs, its not always true..
he chose the angels cause they offered alot of money and they had a much better team..

 

[Boobaby1]

OT post not related to original topic:

Chavez has a higher BA, but similar numbers to Valbuena overall, for about four times the money.

Hamilton has been down right awful this year, and the money that he is getting paid over the next few years is quite hefty.

Sanchez was using the Cubs to get the contract he wanted out of the Tigers. Only way he would have signed with the Cubs is if the Tigers had told him to go pack sand.

Sure Hamilton's numbers are down, but I heard the same thing last year about how LaHair was outperforming Fielder and Pujols combined. Hell, Pujols I don't think had a HR in the first month. He still ended up with about 30 HR's and 105 RBI's.

Do you think for a minute that Hamilton isn't going to come around? And also, how would Hamilton help in the protection of the line-up because it makes the team and players better all around? Like I said, it is a massive upgrade.

Sanchez? Money talks. Period!

Chavez? We are talking about a 3 million dollar contract. The Cubs had no problem throwing away 18 million on Big Z to rid him from the team, but now we are tightening the purse strings with Chavez.

 

[Boobaby1]

s.

my response was off of you comparing the two payrolls..

they tried to get sanchez he chose to stay with the tigers...

have you seen what josh hamilton took from the angels to sign with them.. 17,17,25,32,32
how much more cause it wouldve cost alot more , do you think it wouldve cost the cubs to offer hamilton to join them

as much as we would like to think everyone wants to play for the cubs, its not always true..
he chose the angels cause they offered alot of money and they had a much better team..

And Theo flat out stated and it is documented that "Elite" free agents said they would welcome playing for the Cubs no matter the state of the team. Not my words, Theo's words.

 

[chibears55]

And Theo flat out stated and it is documented that "Elite" free agents said they would welcome playing for the Cubs no matter the state of the team. Not my words, Theo's word

s

ok great.. so when their ready to start offering elite players big contracts then they will come, i guess...

bottom line is, their first 2 seasons since 2011 they improved their system and they decided to go the route of establishing their own/younger core players first before they spend big money on elite players where needed..

maybe they go after such players this off season, we dont know.. maybe its next off season we dont know..
what we do know is their system has improved and right now ( today ) they have a good group of younger core players developing on their major league roster..

all the they shouldve, couldve signed such players is garbage because thats not the route they decided to take after the 2011 season..
they werent going to spend big in yrs and money.. they took the route of signing and trading players to flip for quantity for the system and adding players from within and trades to their major league roster that they feel could be a young core for their future..

its that simple to see what their doing and useless to complain about how you or i wish they couldve done other things..

 

[KBisBack!]

now they have a system that improved along with some younger core players on the roster and money to spend..

A. The system isn't improved.

B. The core isn't better than it was in 2010 or 2011.

But you whine and cry that they shouldn't spend money till the core is already in place.

So the extra money with no more of a core in place means that the only thing that has really taken place is more profit for the owner.

 

[chibears55]

A. The system isn't improved.

B. The core isn't better than it was in 2010 or 2011.

But you whine and cry that they shouldn't spend money till the core is already in place.

So the extra money with no more of a core in place means that the only thing that has really taken place is more profit for the owner.

thats your opinion.. not going to tell you your wrong in your thoughts..
as far as whining and crying about what the cubs are doing, look in the mirror or every single thread on this message board that your involved in..

 

[CSF77]

2011 Roster

C Soto
1B Pena
2B Barney
SS Castro
3B Rammy
Lf Sori
Cf Bryd
RF Fuku

SPs
Dempster
Wells
Garza
Z
Rodrigo Lopez

Rp
sucked I'll only mention Marshall Wood(wasn't that good) Marmol and Russell.

bench
Reed
campana
hill
colvin
Lahair
Baker

2013

C Castillo
1B Rizzo
2b Barney
SS Castro
3b Valbuena
Lf Sori
Cf Dejesus
Rf Shierholtz

Sps
Garza
Wood
Jackson
Shark
Feldmen/Villanueva

Rps
Marmol
Gregg
Russell
2 japs and shit.

bench

Navarro
Hairston and shit.

so let's see here.

C Soto<Castillo. Sorry but outside of 08 when Soto won ROY he flat out blew
1B Pena<Rizzo younger and bats a better average with similar defense.
2b same
ss same
lf same
cf Byrd<or = Dejesus I'd lean towards Dejesus since he's I believe cheaper and Byrd fell off the map plus the PEDs
RF Fukudome/Colvin=Shierholtz meh to all.

Sps

Garza same
Dempster<Shark **** dumpster I hated watching the guy pitch and he dicked around at the deadline and pissed off a lot of people
Wells<Jackson Jackson pitching like he is now is still worth more then Randy Wells after a season and a half. Where is he now again?
Z<Wood need I really commment
Lopez<Feldmen/Villanueva ^

BP they both blow epic ballsack

Bench again both blow massive dick

Yes I think we are better off, we're younger, and more solid.

2011 Cubs: 2013 Cubs

Soto .228/.310/.411...........................Castillo: .280/.320/.381 Answer: Castillo still needs to prove he can Slg.
Pena .225/.357/.462...........................Rizzo: .282/.350/.540 Answer: Edge to Rizzo years younger and better production.
Not bothering with 2B/SS same guy.
A-Ram: .306/.361/.510........................Valbuena: .267/.375/.465 Answer: Do we really need to go there?
LF same guy, not getting on comparing stats.
CF: Byrd: .276/.324/.395.....................Dejesus: .288/.361/.500 Answer: Edge to Dejesus on slg alone. Not bothering with the platoon argument. .395 SLG is not good.
RF: Dome: .273/.374/.369..................Schierholtz: .286/.323/.521 Answer: Schierholtz fits into the RF mold more.

So the top 8 yes over all better. Losing a core hitter in A-Ram alone sways it back. that is 93 RBI's they have to replace.

Rotation:
Going by performance:

Garza: 3.32 ERA 1.258 WHIP.......................Wood 2.03 ERA 0.90 WHIP
Dempster 4.80 ERA. 1.448 WHIP................Feldman 2.19 ERA 1.16 WHIP
Zambrano: 4.82 ERA 1.442 WHIP.................Samardzjia 3.49 ERA 1.20 WHIP
Wells: 4.99 ERA 1.389 WHIP........................Villanueva 3.93 ERA 1.14 WHIP
Lopez 4.42 ERA 1.485 WHIP.........................Jackson 5.76 ERA 1.52 WHIP

Well I can see what the theory is on this management: keep them off base. Jackson has been the oddball but is showing improvement.

Pen: It is better now...not going there.

So over all:

Right now this team is performing better then 2011. Over all. But the loss of a impact bat like A-Ram alone makes it an argument.

But that staff just under-performed in general.

 

[KBisBack!]

so let's see here.

C Soto<Castillo. Sorry but outside of 08 when Soto won ROY he flat out blew
1B Pena<Rizzo younger and bats a better average with similar defense.
2b same
ss same
lf same
cf Byrd<or = Dejesus I'd lean towards Dejesus since he's I believe cheaper and Byrd fell off the map plus the PEDs
RF Fukudome/Colvin=Shierholtz meh to all.

Sps

Garza same
Dempster<Shark **** dumpster I hated watching the guy pitch and he dicked around at the deadline and pissed off a lot of people
Wells<Jackson Jackson pitching like he is now is still worth more then Randy Wells after a season and a half. Where is he now again?
Z<Wood need I really commment
Lopez<Feldmen/Villanueva ^

BP they both blow epic ballsack

Bench again both blow massive dick

Yes I think we are better off, we're younger, and more solid.

Yep, you are an idiot.

Sure Soto disappointed after his ROY season, but Castillo blows now. Below average defensively and barely better than Barney offensively which is substantially below par.

Rizzo still has a ways to go to prove he is the real deal. We all hope he is, but he needs to do it longer before being anointed a franchise player. I got mocked for comparing his contract to Goldschmidt, yet Goldschmidt is the more productive player.

2B is the same.

SS is worse. There is no factual evidence to support Castro has not regressed.

I see you conveniently forgot to mention 3B. Let me help you..... Way, way, way, way worse.

LF the same.

CF - DeJesus was statically worse last season than Byrd was in 2010. But you guys who whine and cry that no FA should be signed past the age of 32 keep praising the 33 year old who is having a far better statistical season than he has ever had before. I'll go with history and believe his numbers will regress to at best equal to the player Byrd was in 2010.

RF - you might be meh to all of them, but that is only because Fukudome was statically better than Scheirholtz has been. History also suggest there should be a regression of his numbers as well.

SP - You like Shark better because you have no statistical evidence to support him better, you just didn't like the way the front office blew his trade to Atlanta. Nice objective analysis there.

Wells worse than Jackson?? You are on drugs. Once again no statistical evidence to support such madness. Wells blew, but Jackson has been much, much worse.

Z worse than Wood?? Yes you really do need to comment. 5-6 nice starts does not override the 7-8 very solid seasons Zambrano provided. Let's see where Wood is at even at the All Star Game. It is still early enough that about 2 really bad starts will make his numbers look average at best. Villanueva was being discussed as a solid #2-3 starter and a couple weeks later he is in the pen. The same can easily happen with Wood.

But of course you think the team is better now. You have been brainwashed to ignore facts and believe in fairy tales

 

[KBisBack!]

t
i think the spending on core FAs they want to stick and be a part of their future will come once theyve established their system and have a young core on their major league roster which they have somewhat established both to date..
thats why because they have money to spend , they will be able to field a competing team quicker once theyre ready to spend on big name/above avg. FAs

I have provided you many, many examples of how this process will take 10+ years to achieve.

You keep arguing it will happen faster than that.

Please provide the factual examples of other teams in the past that have done what the Cubs are trying to do in a 4-5 year period like you think Theo will do.

 

[KBisBack!]

You're also missing the point of if we signed Hamilton and Sanchez that we would have lost picks. Thus slowing the farms improvement.

Nope.

The Cubs first round pick was protected last year and I'll take the chances that either Josh Hamilton or Anibal Sanchez would have provided more production for the franchise than Pierce Johnson ever will.

 

[KBisBack!]

s

ok great.. so when their ready to start offering elite players big contracts then they will come, i guess....

In about ten seasons.

Not in the near future like you keep clutching to.

 

[KBisBack!]

what we do know is their system has improved and right now ( today ) they have a good group of younger core players developing on their major league roster..

No, that is not what we know.

That is what you keep repeating with no statical or factual backing despite all the statistical and factual analysis that has been provided showing the team and system is not improved at all.

 

[KBisBack!]

thats your opinion.. not going to tell you your wrong in your thoughts..

Nor are you going to provide facts and statistics that tell me my thoughts are wrong either.

However I have provided facts and statistics that have shown the team and farm system arent improved.

 

[The Bandit]

Yep, you are an idiot.

Sure Soto disappointed after his ROY season, but Castillo blows now. Below average defensively and barely better than Barney offensively which is substantially below par.

Rizzo still has a ways to go to prove he is the real deal. We all hope he is, but he needs to do it longer before being anointed a franchise player. I got mocked for comparing his contract to Goldschmidt, yet Goldschmidt is the more productive player.

2B is the same.

SS is worse. There is no factual evidence to support Castro has not regressed.

I see you conveniently forgot to mention 3B. Let me help you..... Way, way, way, way worse.

LF the same.

CF - DeJesus was statically worse last season than Byrd was in 2010. But you guys who whine and cry that no FA should be signed past the age of 32 keep praising the 33 year old who is having a far better statistical season than he has ever had before. I'll go with history and believe his numbers will regress to at best equal to the player Byrd was in 2010.

RF - you might be meh to all of them, but that is only because Fukudome was statically better than Scheirholtz has been. History also suggest there should be a regression of his numbers as well.

SP - You like Shark better because you have no statistical evidence to support him better, you just didn't like the way the front office blew his trade to Atlanta. Nice objective analysis there.

Wells worse than Jackson?? You are on drugs. Once again no statistical evidence to support such madness. Wells blew, but Jackson has been much, much worse.

Z worse than Wood?? Yes you really do need to comment. 5-6 nice starts does not override the 7-8 very solid seasons Zambrano provided. Let's see where Wood is at even at the All Star Game. It is still early enough that about 2 really bad starts will make his numbers look average at best. Villanueva was being discussed as a solid #2-3 starter and a couple weeks later he is in the pen. The same can easily happen with Wood.

But of course you think the team is better now. You have been brainwashed to ignore facts and believe in fairy tales

Yes I forgot 3b simple mistake so sue me. Base on how you love Z go be a Phils fan because sunce 2011 Wood is better. the rest I'm not wasting the effort explaining to you all you do is piss and moan.

 

[chibears55]

However I have provided facts and statistics that have shown the team and farm system arent improved.

no you havent.. your arguments are based on your opinion saying you dont think player A is better then player B or just that you just dont think their in a better position now then they were after 2011.

you cant honestly sit here and say their farm system isnt better off today then it was after the 2011 season and that they have both quantity and quality players now. if so, your just flat out lying just so you can go oppo of me and not agree with that.

showing me statistics from 2010 players that were at the end of the road doesnt make that team in a better position going forward then having a good younger core group of players now that are developing and playing well at the major league level and actually have a future..

and just goes to show you that point , how well did that 2010 team do in 2011 ? not so good
when they needed help from the system to replace players howd that go ? not so well did it

 

[The Bandit]

no you havent.. your arguments are based on your opinion saying you dont think player A is better then player B or just that you just dont think their in a better position now then they were after 2011.

you cant honestly sit here and say their farm system isnt better off today then it was after the 2011 season and that they have both quantity and quality players now. if so, your just flat out lying just so you can go oppo of me and not agree with that.

showing me statistics from 2010 players that were at the end of the road doesnt make that team in a better position going forward then having a good younger core group of players now that are developing and playing well at the major league level and actually have a future..

and just goes to show you that point , how well did that 2010 team do in 2011 ? not so good
when they needed help from the system to replace players howd that go ? not so well did it

don't forget that you're an idiot to lead off every post.

 

[chibears55]

don't forget that you're an idiot to lead off every post

.

i know, right.. maybe this guy and his cbs pals should go start their own message board..

be nice to just stay on topic of a thread

 

[KBisBack!]

you cant honestly sit here and say their farm system isnt better off today then it was after the 2011 season and that they have both quantity and quality players now. if so, your just flat out lying just so you can go oppo of me and not agree with that.

Well your original statement was the team was better now than at the end of 2010 or 2011.

I have provided the minor league rankings that you and the other slurpers hold as gospel from both Baseball America and Keith Law that the minor league system is almost identical now to where it was in 2010.

Continue to ignore those facts.

showing me statistics from 2010 players that were at the end of the road doesnt make that team in a better position going forward then having a good younger core group of players now that are developing and playing well at the major league level and actually have a future..

Claiming minor league players will maybe, sometime, somewhere in the future be an improvement doesnt make the team in a better position going forward.

 

[The Bandit]

.

i know, right.. maybe this guy and his cbs pals should go start their own message board..

be nice to just stay on topic of a thread

I'm done wasting my time talking to him anyways, it's like arguing with D3A's estranged brother.