Cubs Argument thread/D3A's explainin thread

[FirstTimer]

Odd.

Rickett's doesn't care about winning yet he just paid big money to bring in Theo Epstein and Co. Guys who helped the Red Sox win more WS in the last 10 years than the Yankees.

Weird!

 

[bleacherbum54]

Fielder and Jackson help team stay compeitive. Cubs dont have a middle of order bat. Jackson would slide right into 3rd pitching spot and once Dempster leaves would slide right into 2nd spot (if they dont go out and spend on a ACE), They would have been in the 2nd WC spot hunt with just those 2 players. Makes the team deeper and better. Plus Fielder would give Cub fans actuall reason to show up the ball park. As you can see from article i posted Cubs not selling tickets. Some of you think its smart. Some of us think its not smart cause the fans are proving that by not buying tickets to see piss poor team on the field

LOL at a Garza Demp Jackson (hitters would be shaking in their boots LOL) rotation in the playoffs we would have no shot. But we wouldnt come close to the playoffs so we wouldnt have to worry about that.

every team needs cheap young talent yes even the almighty Yanks why did the yanks trade for Pineta (or however you spell his name)

When they could of just signed Edwin Jackson???

They traded the best hitter in their system and "maybe the best hitter Cashman has ever traded" wwhen they could of just spent and got another pitcher???



If any team should be writing checks to stars right now it should be the Yanks or Red Soxs (both didnt spend shit this winter) they are contenders and only a piece or 2 away the Cubs not so much. Come back to me in 5 years and we have a great team of young talent who can contend and if we dont spend then I would agree that Ricketts is bad but you cant ***** at him for not spending when we are so far away from contending.

we still have 100m+ pay role which is high as hell for a rebuilding team.

 

[FirstTimer]

In review. d3a is quick to point out teams like the Red Sox and Yankees spending a ton of money and it = winning.

Yet Rickett's bringing in Epstein.....who was in Boston and helped build those big spending teams that won........is somehow an example of a move Rickett's made showing his unwillingness to spend money.













...

 

[FirstTimer]

If stupidity is contagious then I feel sorry for d3a's kids.

 

[waldo7239117]

Last time ... Prince Fielder is a waste of money and would have never been able to stay in the NL. Edwin Jackson has been inconsistet, so you don't know exactly what he would bring.

Also, it's Theo Epstein's choice and he thinks it is better to go this way and I agree. It's not Rickett's. He ate Z's contract and that's a lot of money.

 

[daddies3angels]

What do you mean "stay competitive" The Cubs weren't competitive last season so brining in Fielder and Jacksonrolling would not have somehow vaulted them into contention with real organizations like the Brewers and Cardinals.




:rolling:

No they would not have.


And you have no proof he wouldn't.

Then again "take a simple economics course" If Ricketts is going to spend half a billion dollars to renovate Wrigley he's not going to piss away that investment plus his $900 million dollar purchase of the team by putting a shit product on the field when on top of all thi he brought in THEO FUCKING EPSTEIN and Co.

So it's your "logic" that Rickett's is willing to spend 1.4 billion on the Cubs, spend the money to get Theo and Co here...........then......not go after free agents or reinvest into the ball club? :rolling:

BTW, Rickett's is already going out there trying to spen big $$ on free agents...that's why he's offering some 19 year old Cuban $27 million.

LOL at you failing over and over.


Wrong.

Again.

So Rickett's brought in Theo Epstein to not spend money on free agents? Why would he hire Theo and not some schlub from the Royals? Have you ever watched how the Red Sox operate?



No. It's idiotic because his and your premise is stupid and flawed.

1: With MIL losing Fielder and Pujols + if Cubs would have gotten Fielder you make your team better WHILE those teams would getting worse. NLC is the worse division in baseball. Cubs have spent money and gone from 5th in division to 1st in division. That was just done 6 years ago.

2: i have proof that he hasnt spent any money in FA. He spent 13 mil this year in FA WHILE spending 20 mil on Mcdonalds. Last year Cubs defered money on a 1 yr deal. Name be one other BIG MARKET team that defered money on a 1 yr deal. He to fucking cheap he cant pay 10 mil in 1 year to Pena? He had to pay him 5 mil last year and another 5 mil this year. BUT he had 20 mil this offseason to buy McDonalds parking lot. His first offseason as owner Dempter has to defer 3 mil of his contract so Cubs coudl sign Nady to 3 mil deal. How sad is it that a ballplayer had to let the Owner borrow money Yes he would put a piece of shit product on the field cause as his dad said Cub fans show up if a winning team or a losing team. Do i need to find that video for you cause your to stupid to hit google? Spending 27 mil on a prospect is not consider big FA spending. The idea of spendign 27 mil is to save him money in the long run. He taking the Risk that the kid becomes a superstar and signed to a good contract. Again he a PROSPECT!!! There is a very good chance that the money can be a waste. So rather then spending it on a proven MLB guy who can help team win now and in future he rather spend on kid who MIGHT make it. We have no idea if that will be a good investment for another 4-6 years. Again while we waiting to see that investment fans have to pay the 2nd highest prices in all of MLB of tickets to see a piss poor product on the field. Im going to say this again which i have said post after post. IF CUBS WERE NOT BIG MARKET this would be whole different story!!! BIG MARKET teams that charge fans 2nd HIGHEST AVG PRICE TICKETS dont get to rebuild!!! When they try like the Cubs are they will have fans NOT GOING TO GAMES. As that article has shown people are NOT BUYING TICKETS to see this bad team. Now if they were SMALL or MEDIUM market team then yes building within is the right away to go. CUBS have enough resources they should be able to spend on MLB TEAM + spend on AM draft and IFA. Also since AM DRAFT and IFA have been CAPPED!!! They cant spend big on these areas any more. Where is that money going? NOT INTO THE MLB CLUB!!!!

 

[daddies3angels]

LOL at a Garza Demp Jackson (hitters would be shaking in their boots LOL) rotation in the playoffs we would have no shot. But we wouldnt come close to the playoffs so we wouldnt have to worry about that.

every team needs cheap young talent yes even the almighty Yanks why did the yanks trade for Pineta (or however you spell his name)

When they could of just signed Edwin Jackson???

They traded the best hitter in their system and "maybe the best hitter Cashman has ever traded" wwhen they could of just spent and got another pitcher???



If any team should be writing checks to stars right now it should be the Yanks or Red Soxs (both didnt spend shit this winter) they are contenders and only a piece or 2 away the Cubs not so much. Come back to me in 5 years and we have a great team of young talent who can contend and if we dont spend then I would agree that Ricketts is bad but you cant ***** at him for not spending when we are so far away from contending.

we still have 100m+ pay role which is high as hell for a rebuilding team.

Cubs will have around 90 mil payroll this year on the field. Next year they have 33 mil comitted. Cubs are 1 of 9 teams not to have a player signed 2015 and beyond. Out of those 9 teams only ONE is consider a conteder. That is the SFG

 

[daddies3angels]

Last time ... Prince Fielder is a waste of money and would have never been able to stay in the NL. Edwin Jackson has been inconsistet, so you don't know exactly what he would bring.

Also, it's Theo Epstein's choice and he thinks it is better to go this way and I agree. It's not Rickett's. He ate Z's contract and that's a lot of money.

Waldo i respect your opinion. I dont agree with it. Fielder has played 160 + games EVERY YEAR in the MLB!!! He always been a bigger guy, so he knows how to keep himself in shape. Edwin Jackson is still better then Cubs 3-5 SP options now and prolly better then Demp. Not very often do guys with Jackson stuff go on the market at age 28. Im not saying go spend on 30 + y/o. All the guys i liked were 28!!! I understand they have to build the farm system up. Yes every team needs to bring up cheap players that produce. BUT big market teams should have a franchicse player like Fielder. If they dont have one in the system you go spend to get one espicially when he only 28

 

[daddies3angels]

If stupidity is contagious then I feel sorry for d3a's kids.

I feel sorry for your mom. She raised a tool

 

[daddies3angels]

In review. d3a is quick to point out teams like the Red Sox and Yankees spending a ton of money and it = winning.

Yet Rickett's bringing in Epstein.....who was in Boston and helped build those big spending teams that won........is somehow an example of a move Rickett's made showing his unwillingness to spend money.













...

Theo took over BOS when they were off 2 straight 90 wins seasons. He just had to contain the team. Theo also had the 2nd highest payroll from the begining at BOS. Now he has to build a team with payroll around 100 mil.

 

[85Bears4life]

 

[FirstTimer]

1: With MIL losing Fielder and Pujols + if Cubs would have gotten Fielder you make your team better WHILE those teams would getting worse.

The Cubs also had better surrounding talent 6 years ago.

Oh yeah..and while the Cards got worse" by losing Pujols they just got Wainwright back and the Brewers farm system is flush with guys ready to come up at the moment like Gamel.

Cubs..not so much....and adding a 1B, while losing A-Ram...and still have the same shit house players but only adding Fielder isn't a recipe for success.

2: i have proof that he hasnt spent any money in FA. He spent 13 mil this year

In review.

d3a: Rickett's hasn't spent money in FA.


d3a: He spent $13 million in free agency!

Name be one other BIG MARKET team that defered money on a 1 yr deal. He to fucking cheap he cant pay 10 mil in 1 year to Pena?

Rickett's doing things right SHORT TERM doesn't mean he will never spend money in free agency again. In fact his hiring of THEO EPSTEIN is proof of that.

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU NOT UNDERSTANDING ABOUT THIS?

Spending 27 mil on a prospect is not consider big FA spending.

Actually it is..hence why only really big market teams are making a run at this kid.

I don't see the Royals out there offering him 27 million.


.

He taking the Risk that the kid becomes a superstar and signed to a good contract.

Which if he becomes good he will have to spend even more on him to renew the cotnract!

Holy shit.

BIG MARKET teams that charge fans 2nd HIGHEST AVG PRICE TICKETS dont get to rebuild!!!

Actually they do.

The Yankees did it back in the early 90's after sucking since the early 1980's.


Then won a shit load of WS's

History again proves you wrong!

NOT INTO THE MLB CLUB!!!!

So Rickett's hired Epstein and Co to not put money into the MLB Club.

Got it.

:rolling:

 

[daddies3angels]

LOL at a Garza Demp Jackson (hitters would be shaking in their boots LOL) rotation in the playoffs we would have no shot. But we wouldnt come close to the playoffs so we wouldnt have to worry about that.

every team needs cheap young talent yes even the almighty Yanks why did the yanks trade for Pineta (or however you spell his name)

When they could of just signed Edwin Jackson???

They traded the best hitter in their system and "maybe the best hitter Cashman has ever traded" wwhen they could of just spent and got another pitcher???



If any team should be writing checks to stars right now it should be the Yanks or Red Soxs (both didnt spend shit this winter) they are contenders and only a piece or 2 away the Cubs not so much. Come back to me in 5 years and we have a great team of young talent who can contend and if we dont spend then I would agree that Ricketts is bad but you cant ***** at him for not spending when we are so far away from contending.

we still have 100m+ pay role which is high as hell for a rebuilding team.

BOS and NYY are already over the luxary tax. No one can expect them to spend over that. I dont expect the Cubs to spend ovet the Luxary tax. shit i just be excited to see them 26 mil under the luxary tax which puts them around 150 mil payroll... Not 86 mil under the luxary tax

 

[daddies3angels]

The Cubs also had better surrounding talent 6 years ago.

Oh yeah..and while the Cards got worse" by losing Pujols they just got Wainwright back and the Brewers farm system is flush with guys ready to come up at the moment like Gamel.

Cubs..not so much....and adding a 1B, while losing A-Ram...and still have the same shit house players but only adding Fielder isn't a recipe for success.


In review.

d3a: Rickett's hasn't spent money in FA.


d3a: He spent $13 million in free agency!





Rickett's doing things right SHORT TERM doesn't mean he will never spend money in free agency again. In fact his hiring of THEO EPSTEIN is proof of that.

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU NOT UNDERSTANDING ABOUT THIS?


Actually it is..hence why only really big market teams are making a run at this kid.

I don't see the Royals out there offering him 27 million.


.
Which if he becomes good he will have to spend even more on him to renew the cotnract!

Holy shit.


Actually they do.

The Yankees did it back in the early 90's after sucking since the early 1980's.


Then won a shit load of WS's

History again proves you wrong!



So Rickett's hired Epstein and Co to not put money into the MLB Club.

Got it.

:rolling:

Really Gamel?

You just lost all respect of any baseball fan

 

[Rice Cube]

I think if you looked at the FA availability for this offseason and next you see that there's a group of stars up top that are iffy on whether they re-sign with their parent clubs or hit free agency, so that's up in the air. Some of the pieces that would have been available next offseason have signed extensions. The remaining free agents are going to be expensive but not quite as good. So asking the team to pump money into expensive mediocrity doesn't seem like a good plan to me, unless somehow Matt Cain, Zack Greinke and Cole Hamels become available.

The other part of the equation is that by spending on elite free agents, you're not just out that amount of money, you also lose draft picks even under the new CBA. That certainly doesn't help any build/rebuild project.

If Ricketts were just sitting pat on his piece-of-shit team and sucking up revenue sharing funds, then you have a beef. What you seem to have a beef with is not that he's not spending, but that he's spending money that isn't going towards expensive mediocrity. I understand that's your opinion, but it's a really inefficient use of resources given the context of the state of this franchise.

 

[waldo7239117]

When Fielder enters the mid 30's, his body will warn down and be more in DH mode. Also, in the AL, teams can keep him in the lineup but give him an AL 'day off'.

 

[daddies3angels]

I think if you looked at the FA availability for this offseason and next you see that there's a group of stars up top that are iffy on whether they re-sign with their parent clubs or hit free agency, so that's up in the air. Some of the pieces that would have been available next offseason have signed extensions. The remaining free agents are going to be expensive but not quite as good. So asking the team to pump money into expensive mediocrity doesn't seem like a good plan to me, unless somehow Matt Cain, Zack Greinke and Cole Hamels become available.

The other part of the equation is that by spending on elite free agents, you're not just out that amount of money, you also lose draft picks even under the new CBA. That certainly doesn't help any build/rebuild project.

If Ricketts were just sitting pat on his piece-of-shit team and sucking up revenue sharing funds, then you have a beef. What you seem to have a beef with is not that he's not spending, but that he's spending money that isn't going towards expensive mediocrity. I understand that's your opinion, but it's a really inefficient use of resources given the context of the state of this franchise.

Isnt a 28 y/o power 1B who could be a franchise player for next 6-8 yrs worth a 2nd RD pick? Cubs would have not lost there 1st pick cause it was protected. Also this would have been year to lose a 2nd RD pick cause they got 2 back for Pena and A-Ram. Now with new CBA there are no more Type B's. Thats how Theo built BOS farm sysetem up so well. He let his TYPE A and Type B FA hit market took the draft picks and spent on other top tier FA. BOS was known to have 4-6 picks in first 3 RDS. After this year that cant happen. Thats another reason rebuilding going to take longer and be harder.

 

[FirstTimer]

Cubs will have around 90 mil payroll this year on the field. Next year they have 33 mil comitted. Cubs are 1 of 9 teams not to have a player signed 2015 and beyond. Out of those 9 teams only ONE is consider a conteder. That is the SFG

He just had to contain the team.

Wrong.

Theo also had the 2nd highest payroll from the begining at BOS.

Major League Baseball Team Payrolls 1998-2012

Factually incorrect.

Epstein was named GM heading into the 2003 season. They were 2nd in 2002, payroll fell his first season in control then jumped up again in the following years. Gee. Where is this starting to sound familiar from? Oh wait................ All this also coincided with some major renovations at Fenway... Wow. It's almost like....history could be repeating itself again.

:rolling:





I also love how you are raiing hell over the Cubs being around 90 million dollars in payroll when they didn't even break 100 million until 2008...then started to suck almost immedietly after that

 

[FirstTimer]

Really Gamel?

You just lost all respect of any baseball fan

The Brewers organization's thoughts>>You.

The other part of the equation is that by spending on elite free agents, you're not just out that amount of money, you also lose draft picks even under the new CBA. That certainly doesn't help any build/rebuild project.

Ding.

Thats how Theo built BOS farm sysetem up so well. .

No it's not.

 

[Rice Cube]

Unfortunately I think Milwaukee shot their load when they traded the farm for Greinke and Marcum. However the core of the team is very much intact with Braun and Hart at the corners and Rickie Weeks in the infield. Their rotation is also deceptively good behind Greinke and Gallardo. So you can't just look at the Brewers losing Fielder and say "ZOMFG they're weak, attack!"

Same with the Cardinals and Reds.

The team as of now, without Pena and Ramirez, is projected to win about 70 games. Let's say you add Fielder. If you're lucky he gives you five extra wins. Now let's say you added Roy Oswalt and Edwin Jackson. You're not entirely sure what Jackson brings, but he'd probably only net you a win or two, tops, for 8-figure salaries. Oswalt is old and broken even if he does come cheap. Maybe you keep Ramirez (and his crap defense) and he adds three wins. You've just added (optimistically) ten wins to your team and they're still under .500, still out of the playoffs, and still expensive, and next year those players are more than likely going to get worse.

I fail to understand how that is a good plan.