Cubs Farm System And Prospects Discussion Thread

[Parade_Rain]

I'm in the camp they need to upgrade two starters. If they get a true #1 maybe you can live with Hammel at 4 and Hendricks at 5 but I'm having a difficult time thinking the Cubs will get Price. that derby is going to crazy. There weren't that many suitors for Scherzer and he got $210 million. Just sayin'. So if they can get one of the other guys that's not an ace I'd like a younger pitcher to replace Hendricks or Hammel. That's going to take dealing one of them as well as a position player. I would rather trade Soler than Baez. All things being equal I'd like them to keep them both.

I get that, but let's wait to see Baez hitting MLB pitching again before stating a preference. Soler made the adjustment. We don't know if Baez truly has although I suspect he will be fine the second time around.

 

[Grizzly]

I sure wish everyone would just relax with all this trade crap. Look at the ages of these guys. 21,22,23,24,26. You better make damn sure you know what you've got before shipping any of them away. Look at what happens to some of these young stud arms. Can any of you imagine what it would be like to have Baez or Soler hitting 25 to 30 homers and 100 plus RBI's for the next 10 years and we ended up with a Mark Prior type pitcher for them. Buy a couple TOR pitchers, fill in the rest and go from there.

 

[willycat]

I sure wish everyone would just relax with all this trade crap. Look at the ages of these guys. 21,22,23,24,26. You better make damn sure you know what you've got before shipping any of them away. Look at what happens to some of these young stud arms. Can any of you imagine what it would be like to have Baez or Soler hitting 25 to 30 homers and 100 plus RBI's for the next 10 years and we ended up with a Mark Prior type pitcher for them. Buy a couple TOR pitchers, fill in the rest and go from there.

Agree, that those young ones shouldn't be traded just yet when there will be a glut of TOR pitchers on the FA market.

 

[Boobaby1]

Agree, that those young ones shouldn't be traded just yet when there will be a glut of TOR pitchers on the FA market.

If you don't take the chance, you will never get anything. Gambling 101

There is the same chance of getting that TOR as their is if they bust.

It is a roll of the dice, and nobody is perfect in trades regardless of the scouting. Nobody.

This is why they built the farm up so that they could trade off pieces to get something they felt was a need. You know it's coning, and teams don't give up good players for mediocre prospects or players.

Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez were prized prospects, and Theo nabbed Beckett and Lowell for them.

The prospects did well, and the vets gave Boston another WS.

It doesn't always work out for both parties however, and if you don't have enough pieces to trade out of the farm in fear of emptying it, than you haven't done your job as a GM.

 

[Boobaby1]

Baez and Edwards will be up tomorrow as part of the first wave of call-ups.

It has also been noted that Baez will play various positions while up here. :clap:

I would love for him to cement himself as a contributor to the team moving forward, or at least show drastic improvements to up his value in the event of a trade.

 

[Shawon_Dunston]

How is Edwards finger? I see Ramirez was only topping out at 93 last night. I don't expect anything from Neil this year, but by some slim chance he can get it together, that would be huge.

 

[Diehardfan]

Not many people seem to remember that last year Ramirez was the Cub's Grimm of this year. Sure would be nice to have them both instead of investing in guys with one foot out of MLB and the other barely in.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

If you don't take the chance, you will never get anything. Gambling 101.

The point is that with free agency you don't need to take any chances at all. Common sense 101

 

[beckdawg]

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/javier-baez-and-swinging-strike-rate/

I'm hoping this is wrong because I'd like to believe Baez has turned a corner but some of the names there are pretty scary. Best players on that list were probably Tony Clark or Pena and both had much higher walk rates than what Baez has presently shown not to mention they weren't every really stars.

 

[Jntg4]

We still have minor league teams? Thought all their players were up already

 

[Boobaby1]

Schwarber and Williams get hitting and pitching prospects of the year for the Cubs.

We all know about Schwarber..........here is about Williams.

The Cubs selected Ryan Williams in the 10th round of the 2014 draft. Williams was 4-1 in nine games, eight starts, for Low-A South Bend with a 1.17 ERA and 0.71 WHIP before earning a promotion to Double-A Tennessee.

With the Smokies, Ryan Williams posted a 10-2 record with a 2.76 ERA and 1.01 WHIP. Williams allowed 29 runs, 27 earned, on 73 hits with 16 walks and 61 strikeouts in 88 innings over 17 games, 16 starts.

In his first full season of pro ball, Ryan Williams was a combined 14-3 in 26 games, 24 starts, with a 2.16 ERA and 0.90 WHIP. Williams gave up 41 runs, 34 earned, on 109 hits with 18 walks and 98 strikeouts in 141 2/3 innings.

He is 23 years old and is 6'4". I don't have his velocity numbers, but I am sure someone around here will find all of that. Did you get that Beck?

 

[beckdawg]

Scouting Grades: Fastball: 55 | Curveball: 45 | Slider: 45 | Changeup: 45 | Control: 60 | Overall: 45
In order to fit seven-figure bonuses for Dylan Cease, Carson Sands and Justin Steele into their pool allotment for the 2014 Draft, the Cubs needed to get discounts with college seniors in the ninth and 10th rounds. They got more than that with 10th-rounder Williams, who rocked to Double-A less than a year after signing for $1,000.

Williams' success is based on two things: his sinker and his ability to locate his pitches. He won't dazzle hitters with velocity while operating at 88-90 mph and touching 92, but he gets them to hit groundout after groundout because of the way his fastball dives at the plate. In his first 121 2/3 innings as pro, he surrendered just two home runs and 12 walks.

Williams' feel for pitching allows his entire repertoire to play better than it grades. His curveball, slider and splitter/changeup aren't more than serviceable but he mixes them well and throws them for strikes. He starred as a reliever in his pro debut before returning to his normal role as a starter in 2015, and his versatility is another factor that could help him reach Chicago much sooner than expected.

^ is on Ryan Williams from mlb.com. From what I've read he's pretty similar to Hendricks in terms of being a control guy. Just looking at the rankings on his pitches He probably has a better fastball than Hendricks(though not much) but his secondary pitches aren't that impressive. Hendricks had a 55 or 60 changeup IIRC with an average fastball and below average other offerings.

That being said, I honestly prefer superb control guys over guys with dominant stuff. For one they are easier to find. For two, as we've seen with Hendricks they and provide a lot of value. Obviously the ideal guy has both but if you have to pick one or the other I take command.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

^ is on Ryan Williams from mlb.com. From what I've read he's pretty similar to Hendricks in terms of being a control guy. Just looking at the rankings on his pitches He probably has a better fastball than Hendricks(though not much) but his secondary pitches aren't that impressive. Hendricks had a 55 or 60 changeup IIRC with an average fastball and below average other offerings.

That being said, I honestly prefer superb control guys over guys with dominant stuff. For one they are easier to find. For two, as we've seen with Hendricks they and provide a lot of value. Obviously the ideal guy has both but if you have to pick one or the other I take command.

They're easier to find but they rarely become much more that MOR guys at best usually being depth or #4 or #5 starters. Not that those guys aren't valuable but it would be nice to develop a guy with explosive stuff. Edwards still could be that guy but durability is obviously the problem there. He'll toil in the bullpen for a year or so and they'll decide whether to stretch him out to start at some point. Not to diminish Williams at all, the Cubs re doing a good job with a few guys like that, it just would be nice to develop a homegrown TOR.

 

[Diehardfan]

They're easier to find but they rarely become much more that MOR guys at best usually being depth or #4 or #5 starters. Not that those guys aren't valuable but it would be nice to develop a guy with explosive stuff. Edwards still could be that guy but durability is obviously the problem there. He'll toil in the bullpen for a year or so and they'll decide whether to stretch him out to start at some point. Not to diminish Williams at all, the Cubs re doing a good job with a few guys like that, it just would be nice to develop a homegrown TOR.

I'm too lazy to start looking them up but a few guys instantly popped into my head....Greg Maddux, Chris Carpenter and Tom Glavine.

 

[beckdawg]

They're easier to find but they rarely become much more that MOR guys at best usually being depth or #4 or #5 starters. Not that those guys aren't valuable but it would be nice to develop a guy with explosive stuff. Edwards still could be that guy but durability is obviously the problem there. He'll toil in the bullpen for a year or so and they'll decide whether to stretch him out to start at some point. Not to diminish Williams at all, the Cubs re doing a good job with a few guys like that, it just would be nice to develop a homegrown TOR.

I mean that's obviously the typical thinking and it's not entirely wrong. But you do end up with guys like Mussina who are really good without amazing stuff. Cliff Lee's another guy with great control. So while I don't totally disagree with what you're saying I do think the disparity between what actually happens with players is less than it might seem. It seems like the number of guys with explosive stuff who never make it sort of get over looked comparable to guys with lessor stuff.

Overall, I just like guys who are effective with their pitches. For example, it's easy to see the appeal of someone like Carlos Martinez from the cards. But at the same time it's hard for me to like him because he can either be dominant or he can give you 3 innings. Comparing him to Hendricks is probably a bad idea because most of Hendricks stuff is fringy at best. But I'd take a guy with average to slightly above average with great control over someone with crazy good stuff and fringy control in almost all cases.

 

[Boobaby1]

They're easier to find but they rarely become much more that MOR guys at best usually being depth or #4 or #5 starters. Not that those guys aren't valuable but it would be nice to develop a guy with explosive stuff. Edwards still could be that guy but durability is obviously the problem there. He'll toil in the bullpen for a year or so and they'll decide whether to stretch him out to start at some point. Not to diminish Williams at all, the Cubs re doing a good job with a few guys like that, it just would be nice to develop a homegrown TOR.

Lets hope Duane Underwood is one of those guys.

Lets also hope that they can either use these guys (Johnson, Edwards, Williams, Underwood) on the parent club, or parlay them into better needed material.

Sooner or later, we have to get lucky. It seems every team in baseball has an ace somewhere that came out of the system. Surely the Cubs are not immuned to this.

 

[beckdawg]

Lets hope Duane Underwood is one of those guys.

Lets also hope that they can either use these guys (Johnson, Edwards, Williams, Underwood) on the parent club, or parlay them into better needed material.

Sooner or later, we have to get lucky. It seems every team in baseball has an ace somewhere that came out of the system. Surely the Cubs are not immuned to this.

I mean as long as you constantly develop decent cost controlled pitching you don't have to get an elite guy because you save enough on the MOR/BOR starters to buy a TOR. For example, think about this for a moment. Hammel is making around $9 mil. Most of the top tier guy not named Kershaw are in the $25 mil range. So, that's a difference of $16 mil or so. In essence a TOR pitcher from FA and a Hendricks cost controlled pitcher is similar to what you can get for Hammel and a $16 mil pitcher. It's another reason I like effective control guys because they will often be cheaper and allow you more flexibility.

Now obviously you'd prefer to have a TOR from 25-30 than 30-35 but you can just as effectively build a staff without that especially if you can trade for younger pitching rather than the FA route.

 

[CSF77]

I mean as long as you constantly develop decent cost controlled pitching you don't have to get an elite guy because you save enough on the MOR/BOR starters to buy a TOR. For example, think about this for a moment. Hammel is making around $9 mil. Most of the top tier guy not named Kershaw are in the $25 mil range. So, that's a difference of $16 mil or so. In essence a TOR pitcher from FA and a Hendricks cost controlled pitcher is similar to what you can get for Hammel and a $16 mil pitcher. It's another reason I like effective control guys because they will often be cheaper and allow you more flexibility.

Now obviously you'd prefer to have a TOR from 25-30 than 30-35 but you can just as effectively build a staff without that especially if you can trade for younger pitching rather than the FA route.

True. What the Cubs are doing is fine. He have a gamble in Hendricks developing and added a low tier in Hammel and a higher tier in Lester. Arrieta worked out way better than expected.

As of right now they need to add a proven #3 starter. If Hendricks did step up into the #3 role this year then the need would have been not as much. But seeing how the current state of the team is it is a glaring need.

I was thinking on looking up so stuff on the top tier F/A pitchers and doing a little over view. If some one else wants to do it that is cool. The guy that I think may be a good target and kinda forgotten is Yovani Gallardo. I doubt they Q-offer him with Darvish coming back. Innings on his arm 1463. He is 29 but already has 9 years in the league. Not sure how that plays going forward.

 

[CSF77]

Looks like Ryan Williams won Cubs pitcher of the year and Willson Contreras won hitter of the year.

Ryan ranked #30 went 14-3 with a 2.16 ERA in 141.2 IP over A to AA. He skipped MB. Gave up only 2 HR's and 18 BB with 98 SO's. Feels like the dark horse type like Hendricks. His whole package plays better than the tools.

Willson won the batting title hitting .333 in AA. He was a 3B and converted to catcher. He can shut down a running game. Most scouts deem that he is the catcher of the future and not Schwarber. He is still working on his receiving skills. He bumped up to #10 in the last rankings and #5 catching prospect in baseball. Was not ranked last year. His skill set could push him into top 100 with another strong season in Iowa.

He is a natural replacement for Ross as Montero's back up. I have a feeling that he would slowly start to take over the playing time.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Looks like Ryan Williams won Cubs pitcher of the year and Willson Contreras won hitter of the year.

Ryan ranked #30 went 14-3 with a 2.16 ERA in 141.2 IP over A to AA. He skipped MB. Gave up only 2 HR's and 18 BB with 98 SO's. Feels like the dark horse type like Hendricks. His whole package plays better than the tools.

Willson won the batting title hitting .333 in AA. He was a 3B and converted to catcher. He can shut down a running game. Most scouts deem that he is the catcher of the future and not Schwarber. He is still working on his receiving skills. He bumped up to #10 in the last rankings and #5 catching prospect in baseball. Was not ranked last year. His skill set could push him into top 100 with another strong season in Iowa.

He is a natural replacement for Ross as Montero's back up. I have a feeling that he would slowly start to take over the playing time.

Williams looks like a #4 starter to me or a bullpen guy. Still he had an impressive year. As far as Contreras I've been following him all year and if Montero is still here in 2017 I agree that Contreras will likely back him up. 2015 was really a breakout year for him and they want to see what happens when the bump him up a level to AAA. He's similar to Welington Castillo in that he has natural blocking instincts and a good arm. Unlike Castillo they think that he can become a good pitch framer and is learning to call a game. Those latter two skills will be his primary focus in 2016. A lot of people have assumed that Schwarber has been moved off catcher more or less permanently but I wouldn't count on that. My guess is that they're aiming for Contreras to become to become the full time catcher in a couple of years with Schwarber catching a couple of days a week to give them the righty/lefty combination for line up flexibility. At that point they may be carrying a third Ross-like catcher for insurance or maybe they sign another Teagarden type to play at AAA and come up as needed. The emergence of Contreras this year though has really shifted the conversation in terms of they are likely to do.