Cubs Farm System And Prospects Discussion Thread

[beckdawg]

I'm curious to see if Trevor Clifton ends up on some midseason top 100 lists. At 21 in A+ he's got a 9.98 k/9 and a 3.52 bb/9 to go with his 2.35/3.05 ERA/FIP over 46 innings. I realize with a lot of these type of players it's dependent on tools more so than results but if you're k'ing guys at a 10 per 9 rate you're probably worth talking about. I generally see 4 or so tiers of pitchers that matter. There's the "no doubter TOR types" who are easily top 50 pitchers. Cubs probably don't have one of those. The next tier is basically where I'd put Cease and Underwood as guys with the tools to ascend to that next tier but who aren't there yet. The next has been guys like Sands/Steele. And finally there's fringe starter types. For a long while, Clifton has been in the last category. So, I'm curious to see how he's ranked going forward. I think you can make a case that he's approaching Cease/Underwood levels here.

 

[CSF77]

I'm curious to see if Trevor Clifton ends up on some midseason top 100 lists. At 21 in A+ he's got a 9.98 k/9 and a 3.52 bb/9 to go with his 2.35/3.05 ERA/FIP over 46 innings. I realize with a lot of these type of players it's dependent on tools more so than results but if you're k'ing guys at a 10 per 9 rate you're probably worth talking about. I generally see 4 or so tiers of pitchers that matter. There's the "no doubter TOR types" who are easily top 50 pitchers. Cubs probably don't have one of those. The next tier is basically where I'd put Cease and Underwood as guys with the tools to ascend to that next tier but who aren't there yet. The next has been guys like Sands/Steele. And finally there's fringe starter types. For a long while, Clifton has been in the last category. So, I'm curious to see how he's ranked going forward. I think you can make a case that he's approaching Cease/Underwood levels here.

Scouting grades: Fastball: 60 | Curveball: 55 | Changeup: 45 | Control: 45 | Overall: 45
Though he was extremely raw as a Tennessee high schooler in 2013, Clifton still earned a $375,000 bonus in the 12th round because he had a live arm and projectable body. Minor League pitching coordinator Derek Johnson (now the Brewers' pitching coach) and low Class A South Bend pitching coach Brian Lawrence helped him simplify his delivery and make the transition from thrower to pitcher, and Clifton made significant strides in 2015.

Clifton has gotten stronger since turning pro, adding about 40 pounds to his 6-foot-4 frame, and his quick arm delivers consistent 92-94 mph fastballs that have reached as high as 97. He's doing a better job of staying on top of his curveball, which features tight spin and could become a plus pitch. His changeup has improved but still needs to get better before it can keep left-handers at bay.

Clifton is still developing his control and command but is making steady progress in that regard. He has the upside of a mid-rotation starter with the fallback of becoming a power-armed reliever. He might operate in the mid 90s in shorter stints, and there may be more velocity in his tank.


Mlb site

I'm seeing another Grimm to be honest.

 

[beckdawg]

I'm seeing another Grimm to be honest.

That was written prior to the season. Clifton was good in A ball but given his walk rate of 3.89 I can see why you'd be tentative on him. Most starters can't get away with that. Also while decent a 8.53 k rate wasn't much to drool over when you consider the walk rate that accompanied it. However, a year later and a level higher he's made improvements to both. Ultimately, you want to be under 3 bb/9 and while he's not quite there he's headed in the right direction.

To give parallel example, Chris Archer at 21 in A+ put up 10.20 k/9 and a 3.24 bb/9 with a 2.86/3.08 ERA/FIP. Archer is probably a good example too because like Clifton he would be someone coming out of obscurity. He was a throw in part of the Mark Derosa trade IIRC. To be fair though, Clifton still has a aways to go to get to where Archer obviously is now. But, I think he's more than a bullpen arm at this point. And if he continues to work on his control he could be a rather decent sleeper.

 

[CSF77]

That was written prior to the season. Clifton was good in A ball but given his walk rate of 3.89 I can see why you'd be tentative on him. Most starters can't get away with that. Also while decent a 8.53 k rate wasn't much to drool over when you consider the walk rate that accompanied it. However, a year later and a level higher he's made improvements to both. Ultimately, you want to be under 3 bb/9 and while he's not quite there he's headed in the right direction.

To give parallel example, Chris Archer at 21 in A+ put up 10.20 k/9 and a 3.24 bb/9 with a 2.86/3.08 ERA/FIP. Archer is probably a good example too because like Clifton he would be someone coming out of obscurity. He was a throw in part of the Mark Derosa trade IIRC. To be fair though, Clifton still has a aways to go to get to where Archer obviously is now. But, I think he's more than a bullpen arm at this point. And if he continues to work on his control he could be a rather decent sleeper.

Not really tentative on him. Just he fits the profile of Grimm who came up as a starter and found his nitch as a 7th inning guy.

If Clifton ends up there than he is a success IMO. most never make it at all.

 

[beckdawg]

Not really tentative on him. Just he fits the profile of Grimm who came up as a starter and found his nitch as a 7th inning guy.

If Clifton ends up there than he is a success IMO. most never make it at all.

Just saying I think it's too early to call things. They are going to let him start until they don't feel he'll make it and at this point he's obviously still starting. Given what he's shown this year though I like his future potential vs sands/steele who are sorta well regarded prospects given their over slot signings. I think that had you asked most before the season I assume they'd take those two over him but given that they haven't been lights out and he's been fantastic I think you can make the case he's passed them at the moment.

 

[CSF77]

Had to rank them. 1 Ceace due to having hit 100 mph with a plus 2nd pitch.

2. Hudson. His hammer is plus and has a mid 90s fastball. Always a plus for a LHSP. these 2 are the best chance at 2 home grown aces.

Rest lack TOR stuff. At best you are looking at MOR if any pan out.

 

[beckdawg]

Rice hit another 2 HR's today. I can't imagine they keep him in A ball much longer. He was hitting .391/.511/.609 coming into the day with a 21.1%/15.6% bb/k rate and 3 HRs in 90 PAs. Was 1 for 3 with that HR today in both games.

I'm not comfortable suggesting he's a legit prospect now but it's likely getting close to that point. He hit .252/.375/.340 in A- last year over ~200 PAs with a 13.5%/17.6% bb/k rate. I'd like to see what he can do in A+ first though as he is a bit old for the league. From my understanding, he's also a fairly strong defensive catcher too so the fact he is hitting at all is a huge boon to his value. We'll see what happens but definitely keeping my eye on him.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Cubs named Eloy Jiminez it's Minor League Player of the Month for May.

 

[chibears55]

Cubs named Eloy Jiminez it's Minor League Player of the Month for May.

He the kid i cant wait to see ...
There just something about him that makes me think he going to be a big time player.

Sent from my LG-V495 using Tapatalk

 

[Diehardfan]

He looks a bit like Soler.

[video=youtube;3MtU8Ccrg6A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MtU8Ccrg6A#t=62.87516[/video]

 

[beckdawg]

Soler was often the name brought up after Jiminez signed. In one way though he's not like Soler.... he's been pretty healthy. I haven't heard much comment on his defense but they also thought Soler would be above average defensively in RF which has sorta been wrong.

 

[SilenceS]

Soler was often the name brought up after Jiminez signed. In one way though he's not like Soler.... he's been pretty healthy. I haven't heard much comment on his defense but they also thought Soler would be above average defensively in RF which has sorta been wrong.

Nothing exciting on D. Has a strong arm to be able to play corner OF, but he isnt going to be this plus defender.

 

[DanTown]

I tend to hate evaluating young guys in A ball because it's such a crap shoot of what you're facing and the fact of the matter is guys on both sides are just trying to develop skills as opposed to the higher levels where you're dealing with players who have already developed those skills. That's what makes a surge from a guy like Ian Rice nice but very cautionary. Eloy is obviously young as hell (he's 19 through the full season) and judging by the kinda success he's had (high K rate but decent power), I'll assume he'll be a 21 year old in AA or AAA and that is when you can really judge his numbers and start to project his future MLB career.

I think he's slightly less than what Jorge was at a similar level but he's also younger. So we'll obviously see. I think of all the highly touted prospects the Cubs have, I'd consider EJ the most likely to be dealt as part of a deal. Contreras is simply too valuable to consider moving and Torres is so young that the Cubs can be patient with him to eventually replace high cost players who will become FA in four-six years. Eloy is similar to Torres in that his youth will allow the Cubs to be incredibly patient with his development but I also think that his limitations (corner OF) don't lend him to be being as valuable as say Torres (IF) for the future big league club.

It's incredible work though by Theo + the international guys that the Cubs have been able to find so much talent that it's possible the Cubs could never have a need for EJ on the major league team and he be a regular starting OF.

 

[SilenceS]

I tend to hate evaluating young guys in A ball because it's such a crap shoot of what you're facing and the fact of the matter is guys on both sides are just trying to develop skills as opposed to the higher levels where you're dealing with players who have already developed those skills. That's what makes a surge from a guy like Ian Rice nice but very cautionary. Eloy is obviously young as hell (he's 19 through the full season) and judging by the kinda success he's had (high K rate but decent power), I'll assume he'll be a 21 year old in AA or AAA and that is when you can really judge his numbers and start to project his future MLB career.

I think he's slightly less than what Jorge was at a similar level but he's also younger. So we'll obviously see. I think of all the highly touted prospects the Cubs have, I'd consider EJ the most likely to be dealt as part of a deal. Contreras is simply too valuable to consider moving and Torres is so young that the Cubs can be patient with him to eventually replace high cost players who will become FA in four-six years. Eloy is similar to Torres in that his youth will allow the Cubs to be incredibly patient with his development but I also think that his limitations (corner OF) don't lend him to be being as valuable as say Torres (IF) for the future big league club.

It's incredible work though by Theo + the international guys that the Cubs have been able to find so much talent that it's possible the Cubs could never have a need for EJ on the major league team and he be a regular starting OF.

Its all about his power. He has plus raw power and this year is the first year it is translating to games. The Cubs would probably like to see where that goes. He was coveted by the Cubs and they blew their load to get him. He was #1 international players that year. He fits the molds of the Cubs players Theo likes. Big, strong kid.

 

[beckdawg]

Clifton had another strong outing yesterday. 6 innings 4 hits 6 k's and 1 walk 0 ER.

 

[DanTown]

Just a small note maybe missed with the Almora call-up: Jeimer Candelario also moves up to AAA Iowa.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Just a small note maybe missed with the Almora call-up: Jeimer Candelario also moves up to AAA Iowa.

Mark Zagunis as well.

 

[Bigfoot]

Did they say who is getting the call up to the Smokies with Zagunis and Candelario heading to Iowa. Going to be at the Smokies game Saturday

 

[Spunky Porkstacker]

Did they say who is getting the call up to the Smokies with Zagunis and Candelario heading to Iowa. Going to be at the Smokies game Saturday

When you said Smokies at first I thought you were going to have Smokie links, chips and Fresca with omelet pants .

 

[Omeletpants]

When you said Smokies at first I thought you were going to have Smokie links, chips and Fresca with omelet pants .

Sprite, not fresca