Cubs General Discussion Thread

[tbo41fan]

So instead of using stats to evaluate players, I should use words like bafoon and fat and just describe them? That makes sense.

Forget that no other team had 5 starters with over 20 starts that ALL had FIPs of under 4.

Just wondering... are any pitchers getting younger?

Well if nobody else had that, then your saying the Cubs had the best starting rotation last year...is that correct?

 

[DewsSox79]

Well if nobody else had that, then your saying the Cubs had the best starting rotation last year...is that correct?

that indeed is the issue i am having with his statements.

ps- carlos silva being fat and out of shape and always hurt is a real issue.
zambrano being a bafoon is kinda of an issue as well....dont ya think...hence anger management, blowing up on dlee, fighting michael barrett.....

 

[Captain Obvious]

Well if nobody else had that, then your saying the Cubs had the best starting rotation last year...is that correct?

No. Our starters were around a 4 FIP overall, because we had some spot starts. All I am saying is that we have some quality depth at the SP position.

Dewey, good for you. You can take someone's side, but you have posted nothing of value to this argument. Saying that pitchers are fat and bafoons is real quality posting.

I'm tired of all the BS here. You, Waldo, and Jntg all do the same thing, you say stuff and back it up with ERA, W-L, raw SO #'s, WHIP, etc. It's fine that you don't agree with me, but don't post bullshit like "I'm taking someone's side who disagrees with you." Post something like a stat to prove me wrong... ERA doesn't count, because it is garbage.

 

[Captain Obvious]

that indeed is the issue i am having with his statements.

ps- carlos silva being fat and out of shape and always hurt is a real issue.
zambrano being a bafoon is kinda of an issue as well....dont ya think...hence anger management, blowing up on dlee, fighting michael barrett.....

Yeah, Big Z being an incredibly consistent solid pitcher is a real issue that needs to be dealt with. Since you love ERA so much, he's never had an ERA below 4. Yeah, he's an issue.

 

[DewsSox79]

No. Our starters were around a 4 FIP overall, because we had some spot starts. All I am saying is that we have some quality depth at the SP position.

Dewey, good for you. You can take someone's side, but you have posted nothing of value to this argument. Saying that pitchers are fat and bafoons is real quality posting.

I'm tired of all the BS here. You, Waldo, and Jntg all do the same thing, you say stuff and back it up with ERA, W-L, raw SO #'s, WHIP, etc. It's fine that you don't agree with me, but don't post bullshit like "I'm taking someone's side who disagrees with you." Post something like a stat to prove me wrong... ERA doesn't count, because it is garbage.

I have been debating you since I have been on this board and all you ramble with is garbage. All you say is FIP, all your arguements with everybody here shows inconsistency in all of your thought patterns with a high level of contradictions. Sorry that i dont bring up the whole wind blowing in and out like you do, and sorry that I do not judge a pitcher only on FIP. Maybe you should read a little bit more about FIP before you start throwing it around the message boards.

As for your spot start....Way to find a loop hole to get out of the hole you dug yourself in when you made the comment in the first place.

You always tell me and lefty and everyone else "prove me wrong"....maybe look in the mirror when you are the only one debating in this forum. No one else is arguing or debating anything but you, so its either we are all wrong or you are wrong.

Stop with the whole "prove me wrong" you have been proven wrong by multiple users multiple times, and if you dont think you are wrong you are in denial.

Now go on and say that we are all bad for the forums and that you would never bring anybody here because of me and other people.......go on with that threat...how many people have you brought here since you have been on? thats what I thought.

 

[Captain Obvious]

I have been debating you since I have been on this board and all you ramble with is garbage. All you say is FIP, all your arguements with everybody here shows inconsistency in all of your thought patterns with a high level of contradictions. Sorry that i dont bring up the whole wind blowing in and out like you do, and sorry that I do not judge a pitcher only on FIP. Maybe you should read a little bit more about FIP before you start throwing it around the message boards.

As for your spot start....Way to find a loop hole to get out of the hole you dug yourself in when you made the comment in the first place.

You always tell me and lefty and everyone else "prove me wrong"....maybe look in the mirror when you are the only one debating in this forum. No one else is arguing or debating anything but you, so its either we are all wrong or you are wrong.

Stop with the whole "prove me wrong" you have been proven wrong by multiple users multiple times, and if you dont think you are wrong you are in denial.

Now go on and say that we are all bad for the forums and that you would never bring anybody here because of me and other people.......go on with that threat...how many people have you brought here since you have been on? thats what I thought.

Yes, because I just use FIP to judge pitchers. While you are over here using ERA...

You still have yet to post anything on why FIP is bad or how I am misusing it.

As for the spot starts, you totally missed the point to begin with. I was never ever ever ever ever saying that the Cubs have the best pitching staff. You just took my text out of context.

You make it sound like this place is the only place on the internets. Just because this incredibly incredibly small percentage of people doesn't agree, doesn't mean that I'm wrong. Plus, not everyone gives input on every topic. Most of the time it's just a few of us.

 

[Jntg4]

Seeing CO's post Dews quoted...
The only time I've used ERA as an argument is when I was responding to a quote by Joe referring about ERA. So... ok?

 

[Capt. Serious]

Randy Wells shit again..

 

[cubsneedmiracle]

Geze CO stop sucking Wells' dick so much..

 

[Captain Obvious]

Using what besides ERA tells you that Wells sucks so much?

 

[cubsneedmiracle]

Using what besides ERA tells you that Wells sucks so much?

His BAA is around .260-.270 thats not very good

His WHIP is 1.40 thats not very good

Look at this

Randy Wells - Chicago Cubs - Game Log - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

look at the Earned Runs in each of his games. you don't need extra fancy stats to see all of those 6 earned runs with a shitload of his starts.

 

[DewsSox79]

Using what besides ERA tells you that Wells sucks so much?

[(HR*13 + (BB + HBP - IBB)*3 - K*2)/IP] + 3.2

^^^^^not to be used to evaluate a pitcher 100%^^^^^^^

 

[DewsSox79]

His BAA is around .260-.270 thats not very good

His WHIP is 1.40 thats not very good

Look at this

Randy Wells - Chicago Cubs - Game Log - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

look at the Earned Runs in each of his games. you don't need extra fancy stats to see all of those 6 earned runs with a shitload of his starts.

but but but.........in his eyes the defense should have gotten to some of those hits

 

[cubsneedmiracle]

but but but.........in his eyes the defense should have gotten to some of those hits

not when he's giving up batted balls to every other batter..

there's no "luck" with that.. if you are going to give up batted balls you've gotta learn where to give up hits.. nip the corners.. saw a batter off.. not just give up meat hits.. its not hard to figure out.

 

[DewsSox79]

not when he's giving up batted balls to every other batter..

there's no "luck" with that.. if you are going to give up batted balls you've gotta learn where to give up hits.. nip the corners.. saw a batter off.. not just give up meat hits.. its not hard to figure out.

i was being sarcastic in my post.

 

[cubsneedmiracle]

i was being sarcastic in my post.

i know.. i wasnt technically directing it at you.

 

[Captain Obvious]

His BAA is around .260-.270 thats not very good

His WHIP is 1.40 thats not very good

Look at this

Randy Wells - Chicago Cubs - Game Log - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

look at the Earned Runs in each of his games. you don't need extra fancy stats to see all of those 6 earned runs with a shitload of his starts.

BAA, WHIP, and raw ER's? Really? Why use any raw stats?

BAA and WHIP use hits, something that flat out is not in Randy's control. The Cubs defense sucked last year, I'm sure that everyone can agree on that. That doesn't mean Randy is a bad pitcher.

Randy gave up as many ER as Demp, so I guess he sucks too.

not when he's giving up batted balls to every other batter..

there's no "luck" with that.. if you are going to give up batted balls you've gotta learn where to give up hits.. nip the corners.. saw a batter off.. not just give up meat hits.. its not hard to figure out.

How do you know that Wells wasn't doing that? Based on what you saw? That's all fine and dandy, but you have no way of proving that any of that happened.

 

[DewsSox79]

Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP)

"Things to Remember:

* FIP does a better job of predicting the future than of measuring the present, meaning there can be a lot of fluctuation in smaller samples
* FIP does not tell you how many real runs were scored
* It is possible for FIP to be negative, though unlikely over large samples.
"

FIP measures, “how many earned runs per nine a pitcher would have given up, if performance on balls in play and timing were ASSUMED to be league average.”

 

[cubsneedmiracle]

BAA, WHIP, and raw ER's? Really? Why use any raw stats?

BAA and WHIP use hits, something that flat out is not in Randy's control. The Cubs defense sucked last year, I'm sure that everyone can agree on that. That doesn't mean Randy is a bad pitcher.

Randy gave up as many ER as Demp, so I guess he sucks too.



How do you know that Wells wasn't doing that? Based on what you saw? That's all fine and dandy, but you have no way of proving that any of that happened.

Why use it? because it tells you the exact same thing that others tell you without 50x the math.. if you cant rate a player normally why bother with other kinds of rating tools?

That's fine.. The stats prove my point.. Plus I think most of us agree that he meats them quite a bit.

It's either feast or famine.

 

[DewsSox79]

His BAA is around .260-.270 thats not very good

His WHIP is 1.40 thats not very good

Look at this

Randy Wells - Chicago Cubs - Game Log - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

look at the Earned Runs in each of his games. you don't need extra fancy stats to see all of those 6 earned runs with a shitload of his starts.

CO would tell you that you cannot count that because you dont know if they were "true" hits and if they could have been prevented by the defense.