Cubs General Discussion Thread

[Capt. Serious]

not when he's giving up batted balls to every other batter..

there's no "luck" with that.. if you are going to give up batted balls you've gotta learn where to give up hits.. nip the corners.. saw a batter off.. not just give up meat hits.. its not hard to figure out.

Same sentence as Buehrle (CO), who is 38 games over .500 in his career. :lmao:

 

[Captain Obvious]

Same sentence as Buehrle (CO), who is 38 games over .500 in his career. :lmao:

Are you really going to use W-L records?

Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP)

"Things to Remember:

* FIP does a better job of predicting the future than of measuring the present, meaning there can be a lot of fluctuation in smaller samples
* FIP does not tell you how many real runs were scored
* It is possible for FIP to be negative, though unlikely over large samples.
"

FIP measures, “how many earned runs per nine a pitcher would have given up, if performance on balls in play and timing were ASSUMED to be league average.”

What is wrong with assuming that balls in play and timing are assumed to be league average?

Why use it? because it tells you the exact same thing that others tell you without 50x the math.. if you cant rate a player normally why bother with other kinds of rating tools?

That's fine.. The stats prove my point.. Plus I think most of us agree that he meats them quite a bit.

It's either feast or famine.

You all can agree on whatever, but there is nothing to prove that.

It absolutely does not tell you the same without 50x the math. Math is apart of statistics, the more math you do, the more accurate you get

CO would tell you that you cannot count that because you dont know if they were "true" hits and if they could have been prevented by the defense.

And what's wrong with that?

 

[DewsSox79]

Are you really going to use W-L records?



What is wrong with assuming that balls in play and timing are assumed to be league average?



You all can agree on whatever, but there is nothing to prove that.

It absolutely does not tell you the same without 50x the math. Math is apart of statistics, the more math you do, the more accurate you get



And what's wrong with that?

BECAUSE YOU DONT KNOW! IT CAN GO EITHER WAY!!!!

 

[Capt. Serious]

Randy Wells is a special pitcher according to CO.

We get it.

 

[Captain Obvious]

BECAUSE YOU DONT KNOW! IT CAN GO EITHER WAY!!!!

Yeah, it can... but all you have to do is simply look at a few defensive stats to see that the Cubs defense sucked. !!!!!!!

 

[DewsSox79]

yeah, it can... But all you have to do is simply look at a few defensive stats to see that the cubs defense sucked. !!!!!!!

but you have to look at every single specific hit against wells not just overall defense that the cubs had!!!!!!!! Too grey of an area!!!!

SO YOU CANNOT JUDGE WHETHER IT WAS A HIT OR A DEFENSIVE WOE.

 

[Captain Obvious]

but you have to look at every single specific hit against wells not just overall defense that the cubs had!!!!!!!! Too grey of an area!!!!

SO YOU CANNOT JUDGE WHETHER IT WAS A HIT OR A DEFENSIVE WOE.

No, you really don't. You can to get a more accurate reading, but this gives us a good enough idea.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Plus, I think you are really missing the ball on the whole defensive point. It's not always a defensive woe. In fact, I would say it is very rarely that. If you have a grounder down the line to 3rd, a ball that an average 3B can get to, Ramirez probably won't get to it. It has more to do with the skill of our defenders than woe and miscues.

 

[DewsSox79]

No, you really don't. You can to get a more accurate reading, but this gives us a good enough idea.

according to who? you? you would have to watch every single play and it would be a matter of opinion of a player can get to the ball or not. it isnt a reliable stat to focus on specifically on a pitcher....again as I told whitesox901, you have to judge a pitcher on multiple variables, multiple stats,,,,not just FIP.

 

[Capt. Serious]

according to who? you? you would have to watch every single play and it would be a matter of opinion of a player can get to the ball or not. it isnt a reliable stat to focus on specifically on a pitcher....again as I told whitesox901, you have to judge a pitcher on multiple variables, multiple stats,,,,not just FIP.

You're arguing with a squirrel.

 

[cubsneedmiracle]

It absolutely does not tell you the same without 50x the math. Math is apart of statistics, the more math you do, the more accurate you get



And what's wrong with that?

because if he isnt good in the simple statistics range.. what makes him better when looking at non-complete advanced statistics?

 

[DewsSox79]

because if he isnt good in the simple statistics range.. what makes him better when looking at non-complete advanced statistics?

because you can find holes in the FIP to make your arguement seem to be more relevant. and that is what he does. again FIP is ok, just not the only stat to evaluate talent.

are we seriously still talking about randy wells?

 

[cubsneedmiracle]

because you can find holes in the FIP to make your arguement seem to be more relevant. and that is what he does. again FIP is ok, just not the only stat to evaluate talent.

are we seriously still talking about randy wells?

Fart In Public


Most advanced Stats have a shitload of holes in theory and practice.. Sure some are really nice but most have massive flaws.. and ratings on coulda woulda shoulda's a bullshit anyways.. Just pitch better.

 

[Capt. Serious]

Yeah, it can... but all you have to do is simply look at a few defensive stats to see that the Cubs defense sucked. !!!!!!!

 

[cubsneedmiracle]

 

[Captain Obvious]

according to who? you? you would have to watch every single play and it would be a matter of opinion of a player can get to the ball or not. it isnt a reliable stat to focus on specifically on a pitcher....again as I told whitesox901, you have to judge a pitcher on multiple variables, multiple stats,,,,not just FIP.

And ERA is not another stat you should use. Nor is WHIP. WHIP isn't indicative of player skill. Sure, pitchers who don't walk people or give up many hits are good, but we don't need WHIP to tell us that. It's merely a byproduct of many other stats.

Defense is not the only problem with ERA, but also the judgement of the scorekeeper. All these other stats are fine to use, just not to evaluate a player.

 

[cubsneedmiracle]

And ERA is not another stat you should use. Nor is WHIP. WHIP isn't indicative of player skill. Sure, pitchers who don't walk people or give up many hits are good, but we don't need WHIP to tell us that. It's merely a byproduct of many other stats.

Defense is not the only problem with ERA, but also the judgement of the scorekeeper. All these other stats are fine to use, just not to evaluate a player.

so is nearly all the other stuff you've tried proving..

I trust WHIP a hell of a lot more than FIP.

 

[DewsSox79]

so is nearly all the other stuff you've tried proving..

I trust WHIP a hell of a lot more than FIP.

it didnt take long for CO to walk himself right into that one.

 

[Got teeth? Keith doesn't.]

Fart In Public


Most advanced Stats have a shitload of holes in theory and practice.. Sure some are really nice but most have massive flaws.. and ratings on coulda woulda shoulda's a bullshit anyways.. Just pitch better.

ERA is waay more flawed than FIP, xFIP, or tERA bro.

What pitcher would you rather sign as a FA?

Player A: 200 IP 225 H 120 K 70 BB 25 HR 3.70 ERA (pitches for a good defense)
Player B: 200 IP 185 H 210 K 55 BB 15 HR 4.40 ERA (pitches for a bad defense)

Who would you rather sign? For me, player B for sure.

 

[DewsSox79]

ERA is waay more flawed than FIP, xFIP, or tERA bro.

What pitcher would you rather sign as a FA?

Player A: 200 IP 225 H 120 K 70 BB 25 HR 3.70 ERA (pitches for a good defense)
Player B: 200 IP 185 H 210 K 55 BB 15 HR 4.40 ERA (pitches for a bad defense)

Who would you rather sign? For me, player B for sure.

Im curious on what two players those are.