Cubs General Discussion Thread

[Jntg4]

You're right, in a formula everything matters... including the pitchers who suck.

Last year there were 289 pitchers who had an average ERA or better and there were 346 who were below average. That right there tells me that it hurts the bad pitchers.

 

[Captain Obvious]

So Zambrano had good defense behind him and Wells had a horrible defense behind him???

Yes, that's exactly it.

Z had a better BABIP. It's something that a pitcher has little to no control over.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Go on... post something of value to the forum. Go on!

 

[Jntg4]

Go on... post something of value to the forum. Go on!

We are still arguing over Randy Wells. That's what it meant. It's unbelievable.

And maybe YOU should post something of value to this forum. Instead of starting stupid arguments daily.

 

[Captain Obvious]

We are still arguing over Randy Wells. That's what it meant. It's unbelievable.

And maybe YOU should post something of value to this forum. Instead of starting stupid arguments daily.

Sorry, I'll try to be more like you and Waldo then. What was I thinking? Damn it, Captain, you wrecked the ship!

 

[Jntg4]

Sorry, I'll try to be more like you and Waldo then. What was I thinking? Damn it, Captain, you wrecked the ship!

I didn't say you had to be like waldo and I, I merely suggested that you stop starting arguments over Randy Wells. If you thought I was telling you to be like someone, then Dews would be the best role-model. I never said to be like me or waldo. But seriously, do you know how stupid the debates you start are?

 

[tbo41fan]

You're right, in a formula everything matters... including the pitchers who suck.

Last year there were 289 pitchers who had an average ERA or better and there were 346 who were below average. That right there tells me that it hurts the bad pitchers.

That tells me it hurts the good pitchers.

More below average ERA's would lower everyones FIP.


Here is the bottom line: IMO judging players based on how they look in math formulas is dumb to me. I want to see players in person and see how they pitch. Sabermetrics doesnt do anything for me except try and make stupid people look smart (not attacking you, just saying in general).

Just based on the fact that Randy Wells is a good FIP pitcher, but would be a 5/6 rotation guy on most teams makes the stat useless to me

 

[Captain Obvious]

I didn't say you had to be like waldo and I, I merely suggested that you stop starting arguments over Randy Wells. If you thought I was telling you to be like someone, then Dews would be the best role-model. I never said to be like me or waldo. But seriously, do you know how stupid the debates you start are?

You suggesting has been noted.

Dewey is not a role model LOL.

I'm sorry that you don't agree with facts that are being pushed right in front of your face. That's unfortunate that you are too hard headed to see it.

That tells me it hurts the good pitchers.

More below average ERA's would lower everyones FIP.


Here is the bottom line: IMO judging players based on how they look in math formulas is dumb to me. I want to see players in person and see how they pitch. Sabermetrics doesnt do anything for me except try and make stupid people look smart (not attacking you, just saying in general).

Just based on the fact that Randy Wells is a good FIP pitcher, but would be a 5/6 rotation guy on most teams makes the stat useless to me

Yeah, that's right. My bad. It hurts good pitchers... but the thing is, it equals everything out, which is only fair.

Here is the bottom line: The human eye is deceiving. Sure Randy had some bad starts, all pitchers do. But, it isn't necessarily his fault. For example, opening day, Z got shelled. Most of it was because his defense was poorly positioned. Sure, he gave up that mammoth HR to Heyward, but that is only 3 runs. Z gave up more than that, but it falls on the defense.

According to you he is a 5/6 guy. But no one cares what you think.

 

[tbo41fan]

You suggesting has been noted.

Dewey is not a role model LOL.

I'm sorry that you don't agree with facts that are being pushed right in front of your face. That's unfortunate that you are too hard headed to see it.



Yeah, that's right. My bad. It hurts good pitchers... but the thing is, it equals everything out, which is only fair.

Here is the bottom line: The human eye is deceiving. Sure Randy had some bad starts, all pitchers do. But, it isn't necessarily his fault. For example, opening day, Z got shelled. Most of it was because his defense was poorly positioned. Sure, he gave up that mammoth HR to Heyward, but that is only 3 runs. Z gave up more than that, but it falls on the defense.

According to you he is a 5/6 guy. But no one cares what you think.

And if you watch games, you can see his defense failing him. You dont need math formulas to see crappy defense, JUST WATCH THE DAMN GAMES.

And your right, he is a 5/6 guy to me and nobody may care what I think, but guess what, and I know this will be hard to wrap around your ego inflated head, nobody cares what you think either.

 

[Captain Obvious]

And if you watch games, you can see his defense failing him. You dont need math formulas to see crappy defense, JUST WATCH THE DAMN GAMES.

And your right, he is a 5/6 guy to me and nobody may care what I think, but guess what, and I know this will be hard to wrap around your ego inflated head, nobody cares what you think either.

Yeah, see, that's where you're wrong. People do care what I think. In fact, people pay to see what I think.

Anyway, that is exactly what I have been saying. His defense sucks.... that doesn't change his talent level as a pitcher. Not that hard to grasp that concept.

 

[tbo41fan]

Yeah, see, that's where you're wrong. People do care what I think. In fact, people pay to see what I think.

Anyway, that is exactly what I have been saying. His defense sucks.... that doesn't change his talent level as a pitcher. Not that hard to grasp that concept.

Are you talking about your dumb play again?
Oh ya...high school plays! I forgot thats the new broadway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And no shit his defense doesnt affect him as a pitcher. So, eliminating defense, you still would judge players by putting them in a formula rather than actually watching them pitch in person?

 

[Captain Obvious]

Are you talking about your dumb play again?
Oh ya...high school plays! I forgot thats the new broadway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And no shit his defense doesnt affect him as a pitcher. So, eliminating defense, you still would judge players by putting them in a formula rather than actually watching them pitch in person?

Yeah, except it's not a high school show. It's okay though, there are a lot of people who are in college that have never done anything with their lives. You're not the only one.

You can not tell me that when you evaluate him by watching him pitch, you take into account just the things he is responsible for. So yes, I would like to use a formula, something that does not have any bias once soever.

 

[tbo41fan]

Yeah, except it's not a high school show. It's okay though, there are a lot of people who are in college that have never done anything with their lives. You're not the only one.

You can not tell me that when you evaluate him by watching him pitch, you take into account just the things he is responsible for. So yes, I would like to use a formula, something that does not have any bias once soever.

Hahahaha it's funny because your totally clueless.


And I can tell you that. Why would I look at how the 2nd baseman bobbled that throw, and then say that it was the pitchers fault?

 

[Captain Obvious]

Hahahaha it's funny because your totally clueless.


And I can tell you that. Why would I look at how the 2nd baseman bobbled that throw, and then say that it was the pitchers fault?

That's because that is an obvious one. If Wells throws a pitch and it gets hit into into the 5-6 whole, a play that an average 3B would have gotten to, but one that Ramirez doesn't get to, you're going to blame it on Wells.

 

[tbo41fan]

That's because that is an obvious one. If Wells throws a pitch and it gets hit into into the 5-6 whole, a play that an average 3B would have gotten to, but one that Ramirez doesn't get to, you're going to blame it on Wells.

actually, no i wouldn't.

But nice try trying to put words into my mouth

 

[Captain Obvious]

actually, no i wouldn't.

But nice try trying to put words into my mouth

It's not just that, though. If a pitcher gives up 10 straight hits, it's going to be his fault. But, not all that blame should be on him. It's really, really, really, not that hard to understand this.

And unless you are going to watch every game that Wells pitches, a formula is going to be better.

 

[tbo41fan]

It's not just that, though. If a pitcher gives up 10 straight hits, it's going to be his fault. But, not all that blame should be on him. It's really, really, really, not that hard to understand this.

And unless you are going to watch every game that Wells pitches, a formula is going to be better.

Ya, your right...If I was a scout, I wouldnt watch the games....Ill just throw all numbers into a formula

 

[Jntg4]

It's not just that, though. If a pitcher gives up 10 straight hits, it's going to be his fault. But, not all that blame should be on him. It's really, really, really, not that hard to understand this.

And unless you are going to watch every game that Wells pitches, a formula is going to be better.

I watched all 162 (DVR let me watch the Cubs after the Hawks during their season and playoff run). He still wasn't impressive.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Ya, your right...If I was a scout, I wouldnt watch the games....Ill just throw all numbers into a formula

You're not a scout, though. Even the scouts eyes can deceive them. They are human. And how do you know what the scouts are saying now? Tim Wilken, is it you?

 

[Jntg4]

You're not a scout, though. Even the scouts eyes can deceive them. They are human. And how do you know what the scouts are saying now? Tim Wilken, is it you?

And the sabre-nerds are scouts and mathematical geniuses that create accurate formulas? Where the hell do the 13, 3, and 2 come from anyway?