Cubs General Discussion Thread

[tbo41fan]

Everyone's FIP incorporates a league average. That is what makes it a good stat, it levels out the playing field.

Ok, so i may be wrong here, but if one pitcher has a really strong FIP, and rightfully deserves it because he is having a great year, then he would bring down the league FIP average, thus improving EVERYBODY, not just good pitchers correct?

Well than you would have a rotation filled with FIP friendly Randy Wells pitchers. Gluck with that.

Exactly...if you used just math, your rotation would be filled with in reality, average pitchers, but in a formula, a supposed powerhouse. You wouldnt win 70 games with a rotation full of Wells like players

 

[DewsSox79]

You have to have a good defense too, or else most pitchers would get fucked over.

question- Why would you have scouting for pitchers than...you said you would...what would be the point? all you need to know is their FIP?

 

[DewsSox79]

Ok, so i may be wrong here, but if one pitcher has a really strong FIP, and rightfully deserves it because he is having a great year, then he would bring down the league FIP average, thus improving EVERYBODY, not just good pitchers correct?


Exactly...if you used just math, your rotation would be filled with in reality, average pitchers, but in a formula, a supposed powerhouse. You wouldnt win 70 games with a rotation full of Wells like players

Oh but you would win alot of games if the defense was awesome! ROFL

 

[DewsSox79]

Ok, so i may be wrong here, but if one pitcher has a really strong FIP, and rightfully deserves it because he is having a great year, then he would bring down the league FIP average, thus improving EVERYBODY, not just good pitchers correct?


Exactly...if you used just math, your rotation would be filled with in reality, average pitchers, but in a formula, a supposed powerhouse. You wouldnt win 70 games with a rotation full of Wells like players

There are also pitchers with a higher FIP than their ERA. That why I love evaluating pitchers on just one thing

 

[Captain Obvious]

Ok, so i may be wrong here, but if one pitcher has a really strong FIP, and rightfully deserves it because he is having a great year, then he would bring down the league FIP average, thus improving EVERYBODY, not just good pitchers correct?


Exactly...if you used just math, your rotation would be filled with in reality, average pitchers, but in a formula, a supposed powerhouse. You wouldnt win 70 games with a rotation full of Wells like players

That is right to an extent. He would bring it down, but by like some like 0.05% or something extremely small. It really wouldn't be enough to matter.

You can't say how many games a team would win based off of the rotation alone. If you used just math, that doesn't mean that you would get average pitchers. Look at Roy Halladay, he has a great FIP and he isn't an average pitcher.

If you had 5 Wells', you would get about 16 WAR out of your starting rotation, would be top 5 in the big leagues. So yeah, I could live with 5 Wells'.

However, like Dewey said, you can't go off of just FIP.

 

[nickofypres]

I hate on things that make no sense and that are stupid to judge players on

I'm just going to walk away from that.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Question- why would you have scouting for pitchers than...you said you would...what would be the point? All you need to know is their fip?

oh my fucking god. I have never said that

 

[DewsSox79]

If I were in charge of the team, I probably would. However, I think it is best to use a combo of scouting(in the minors) and saber(for players with MLB experience)

There really is no point in you saying that if you are basing everything off of FIP.

and no...5 randy wells doesnt make your team a powerhouse rotation, not even close...i dont care how good your DEFENSE is.

 

[DewsSox79]

That is right to an extent. He would bring it down, but by like some like 0.05% or something extremely small. It really wouldn't be enough to matter.

You can't say how many games a team would win based off of the rotation alone. If you used just math, that doesn't mean that you would get average pitchers. Look at Roy Halladay, he has a great FIP and he isn't an average pitcher.

If you had 5 Wells', you would get about 16 WAR out of your starting rotation, would be top 5 in the big leagues. So yeah, I could live with 5 Wells'.

However, like Dewey said, you can't go off of just FIP.

you just throw shit at the wall hoping it will stick.

 

[DewsSox79]

I'm just going to walk away from that.

watch where you are going, we need you here in the forums

 

[tbo41fan]

That is right to an extent. He would bring it down, but by like some like 0.05% or something extremely small. It really wouldn't be enough to matter.

You can't say how many games a team would win based off of the rotation alone. If you used just math, that doesn't mean that you would get average pitchers. Look at Roy Halladay, he has a great FIP and he isn't an average pitcher.

If you had 5 Wells', you would get about 16 WAR out of your starting rotation, would be top 5 in the big leagues. So yeah, I could live with 5 Wells'.

However, like Dewey said, you can't go off of just FIP.

Oh no...in a formula, everything matters. That will no doubt make bad pitchers look just a bit better to people like you who use this terrible stuff to judge players on.

And Im so glad you brought up WAR.

From: Wins Above Replacement Player - BR Bullpen

WARP, intuitively, attempts to express the total number of wins that a given player adds to his team over the course of a season by comparing the player's performance with that of a fictitious "replacement player". A "replacement player" is assumed to be an average Triple-A callup who might appear in the majors only as replacement for an injured player, and whose hitting, fielding, and (if applicable) pitching skills are far below league average. According to Baseball Prospectus, a team consisting entirely of replacement-level players would likely be historically bad, winning only 20-25 games over a full 162-game season.

Really?
Using a fake player and stats to base pitchers value....cmon

 

[cubsneedmiracle]

I'll take a guy that doesn't give up 5-6 runs in half of his starts.. CO there's a difference between something like Pavano where it happens 5 or 6 times that he gives up 5 or more runs a start. Wells had 8 games of giving up 5 runs or more.

Now be that as it may.. Wells has a shitload more strikeouts.

I like to dabble in advanced stuff but it's not overly necessary.

 

[Jntg4]

Damn it CO, 5 more pages of f***ing Randy Wells overnight? Why the hell are we arguing over him? He's already on the team, he's not even someone we are trying to acquire who's usefulness needs to be debated. He's just a guy who has some good games and some terrible games. And if our defense is that bad that his ERA should be in the low 3's, then Zambrano's ERA should be in the 2's right? And if someone can have a negative FIP, then it is obviously a flawed stat. And it's based on the league average, so the Pirates shit pitchers and everything gets factored in.

 

[Capt. Serious]

Damn it CO, 5 more pages of f***ing Randy Wells overnight? Why the hell are we arguing over him? He's already on the team, he's not even someone we are trying to acquire who's usefulness needs to be debated. He's just a guy who has some good games and some terrible games. And if our defense is that bad that his ERA should be in the low 3's, then Zambrano's ERA should be in the 2's right? And if someone can have a negative FIP, then it is obviously a flawed stat. And it's based on the league average, so the Pirates shit pitchers and everything gets factored in.

Will he ever STFU about this guy?

 

[Jntg4]

Will he ever STFU about this guy?

I doubt it.

 

[waldo7239117]

Why would he? Wells is like a Roy Halladay. C'mon you guys....

 

[waldo7239117]

Hmmmm... was Teeth's posts deleted?

 

[Captain Obvious]

There really is no point in you saying that if you are basing everything off of FIP.

and no...5 randy wells doesnt make your team a powerhouse rotation, not even close...i dont care how good your DEFENSE is.

I don't base everything off of FIP, dumbass.

I never said it made it a powerhouse, but it would be a solid rotation.

you just throw shit at the wall hoping it will stick.

At least I'm not the one licking it up.

Damn it CO, 5 more pages of f***ing Randy Wells overnight? Why the hell are we arguing over him? He's already on the team, he's not even someone we are trying to acquire who's usefulness needs to be debated. He's just a guy who has some good games and some terrible games. And if our defense is that bad that his ERA should be in the low 3's, then Zambrano's ERA should be in the 2's right? And if someone can have a negative FIP, then it is obviously a flawed stat. And it's based on the league average, so the Pirates shit pitchers and everything gets factored in.

Why not argue over him? There is nothing else to talk about.

No, Z should not have an ERA in the 2's. He should have a higher ERA, simply because he is out performing his FIP.

So because it can be negative, it is flawed? I would love to hear your rationale on that.

That is what makes FIP good - it takes into account all the other pitchers.

 

[Jntg4]

I don't base everything off of FIP, dumbass.

I never said it made it a powerhouse, but it would be a solid rotation.



At least I'm not the one licking it up.



Why not argue over him? There is nothing else to talk about.

No, Z should not have an ERA in the 2's. He should have a higher ERA, simply because he is out performing his FIP.

So because it can be negative, it is flawed? I would love to hear your rationale on that.

That is what makes FIP good - it takes into account all the other pitchers.

So Zambrano had good defense behind him and Wells had a horrible defense behind him???

 

[Captain Obvious]

Oh no...in a formula, everything matters. That will no doubt make bad pitchers look just a bit better to people like you who use this terrible stuff to judge players on.

And Im so glad you brought up WAR.

From: Wins Above Replacement Player - BR Bullpen



Really?
Using a fake player and stats to base pitchers value....cmon

You're right, in a formula everything matters... including the pitchers who suck.

Last year there were 289 pitchers who had an average ERA or better and there were 346 who were below average. That right there tells me that it hurts the bad pitchers.