Cubs offseason needs/ Talk

SilenceS

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I can't imagine the cubs weren't offering more than 15/year. There has to be other factors. Opt outs, winning immediately, location(?). I could be wrong but I'm hoping other factors were involved and not just cubs not outbidding that offer
Most likely scenario. Japanese players dont just choose money because its such an adjustment. Fukudome chose us when we werent the highest bidder.
 

TL1961

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Most likely scenario. Japanese players dont just choose money because its such an adjustment. Fukudome chose us when we werent the highest bidder.
I understand that but in this case Sanga seemed interested in the Cubs right from the start and having another Japanese player having just signed with us I thought it was a good thing. I understand sang is not a true ace but at $15 million he’s getting less than Taillon and not much more than Quintana in AAV, albeit much more in total commitment, and I think that would be a worthy investment.

I am encouraged by the pitching the Cubs have coming which is why I am not the least bit concerned when they’re not in on a Verlander or a deGrom. Those clearly don’t make sense for the Cubs at this time.

But this just seemed like the low-cost high upside move they need to be in on.
 

Probie2429

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The Cubs just gave 17.5 million to Taillon but they should not have given 15 million to Senga because he would’ve become the teams ace?
Read it again. Senga liked the situation in New York more than here in Chicago. It’s not always about the money. For all we know if he has a wife and kids maybe there are ties to New York that will help make the transition to living in the US easier.
 

czman

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When did the Dodgers sign a free agent for 10+ years, let alone one that is 28? I mean the Dodgers have been great at finding players and signing people to shorter deals or signing them when they are younger so they get out of the deal earlier.

I think if you use an example it should actually be applicable.
So once and we are a few years on so it is kind of early to call it a good contract. Also Betts was arguably the best player in baseball when they signed him. I guess if you are getting a top 2 or 3 player in baseball and you are one player away it might make sense to go to a decade. I still don't like it, but the Dodgers really wanted the ring.
 

Castor76

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So once and we are a few years on so it is kind of early to call it a good contract. Also Betts was arguably the best player in baseball when they signed him. I guess if you are getting a top 2 or 3 player in baseball and you are one player away it might make sense to go to a decade. I still don't like it, but the Dodgers really wanted the ring.

I gave you an example of the Dodgers doing what you said they didn't and also pointed out that they have been the highest payroll in MLB 7 of the past 9 seasons with dips to only 3rd and 4th the two seasons they weren't first. You are the horse I have lead to the water. my main point is they Dodgers haven't cared about the CBT and have been willing to spend what it takes to get guys in. They also have a great development system which keeps them fed well. And because they've built that, they've also managed to get guys who are willing to play there for less money. Not counting 2020, you have to go back to 2012 to find a season they didn't win at least 90 games and make the playoffs.

I'm not saying those really long contracts are good. I'm saying they have become the price of business. And when you start looking at where some contracts have already gone, if the idea is get a guy who can be a difference maker for the next 6-8 seasons is you have to pony up for 4-6 extra, then so be it. I don't know if the new rules allow for it, but if it's important to Correa to have the richest deal ever for a SS but he'd defer money until later, why not offer him 12y/350M with 50M deferred for 10 years after, then the AAV would be 25M AAV. Even if it was all in the contract it's 29.17M AAV. By the time 2030 rolls around, it won't be that bad and baseball doesn't have a hard cap.
 

Diehardfan

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Most likely scenario. Japanese players dont just choose money because its such an adjustment. Fukudome chose us when we werent the highest bidder.
Exactly. Lot's of reasons other than money. Didn't like the team, the city, the people he dealt with....could be anything. Not everyone runs to the biggest dollar sign.
 

SilenceS

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Exactly. Lot's of reasons other than money. Didn't like the team, the city, the people he dealt with....could be anything. Not everyone runs to the biggest dollar sign.
More details came out. Senga wanted 5 years from whatever team he was going to sign with and the Cubs were only willing to do 4 years. Taillon was the highest rated FA on the Cubs board after the first tier of pitching. Hence, the 4 years and the signing of Taillon. The Cubs seemed to have a sticking point of 4 years. Im guessing its part of a timeline they have put together. But, the point does still stand that Japanese players sign for majority of different reasons other than money.
 

TL1961

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More details came out. Senga wanted 5 years from whatever team he was going to sign with and the Cubs were only willing to do 4 years. Taillon was the highest rated FA on the Cubs board after the first tier of pitching. Hence, the 4 years and the signing of Taillon. The Cubs seemed to have a sticking point of 4 years. Im guessing its part of a timeline they have put together. But, the point does still stand that Japanese players sign for majority of different reasons other than money.
Don't get me wrong. I don't want any player at any cost. I want the Cubs to have a plan. I was fully on board when Theo took over because I always was confident he had a plan, and that proved to be the case. I have confidence in Jed (but concerns about the $ he is actually allowed to spend).

If Jed isn't wiling to "get silly" on everybody, I have no issue with that. If they truly believe Taillon is the better pitcher to help win, fine. If they signed him because he cost less, well....

But the point I have been making overall is that while "intelligent spending" makes sense, there's a trade off. Or a limit. They simply can't keep selling fans on nothing more than intelligent spending if not competing. Pittsburgh doesn't spend, so they're intelligent. Who wants that in Chicago?
 

SilenceS

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Don't get me wrong. I don't want any player at any cost. I want the Cubs to have a plan. I was fully on board when Theo took over because I always was confident he had a plan, and that proved to be the case. I have confidence in Jed (but concerns about the $ he is actually allowed to spend).

If Jed isn't wiling to "get silly" on everybody, I have no issue with that. If they truly believe Taillon is the better pitcher to help win, fine. If they signed him because he cost less, well....

But the point I have been making overall is that while "intelligent spending" makes sense, there's a trade off. Or a limit. They simply can't keep selling fans on nothing more than intelligent spending if not competing. Pittsburgh doesn't spend, so they're intelligent. Who wants that in Chicago?
Yes, but they had Taillon rated higher then Senga. Cubs are spending. They arent cheaping out. They are building their vision and their future. Years make a difference. I think you are just reacting to the Cardinals and Contreras. The Cards are old and there window is very short. The Cubs window hasnt even opened yet. They arent just sending offers just to say they sent an offer. They are heavily involved in Correa and Swanson. They arent just flapping gums.
 

TL1961

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Yes, but they had Taillon rated higher then Senga. Cubs are spending. They arent cheaping out. They are building their vision and their future. Years make a difference. I think you are just reacting to the Cardinals and Contreras. The Cards are old and there window is very short. The Cubs window hasnt even opened yet. They arent just sending offers just to say they sent an offer. They are heavily involved in Correa and Swanson. They arent just flapping gums.
I agree. But if they miss on all 4 SS then we can question whether they were making an offer to just say they did. But I don't expect them to miss. What I fear is paying Swanson too much because you missed on the others, but I still hold out hope that Correa will wind up with the Cubs when all is said and done.

I think he has genuine interest and for the same reasons you mentioned with Senga, it may not come down to the most $ assuming there's not a huge gap. I think Correa sees an opportunity with the Cubs that he isn't going to get with MN or SF.
 

TL1961

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Catchers on the move:
William Contreras to Milwaukee
Sean Murphy to Atlanta
In a three team trade
 

Diehardfan

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Catchers on the move:
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Sean Murphy to Atlanta
In a three team trade
Now why didn't the Cubs think of that....they could've replaced Contreras with Contreras.
 

Adipost

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  • Atlanta is sending catcher Manny Piñaalong with its No. 1 prospect, lefty Kyle Muller, and No. 6 prospect, righty Freddy Tarnok to Oakland, Braves sources told The Athletic. The Braves are also sending catcher/All-Star DH William Contreras to Milwaukee in the deal along with minor-league lefty Justin Yeager, sources confirmed.
  • Outfield prospect Esteury Ruiz, who Milwaukee acquired in the Josh Hadertrade this summer, is also going to the A’s, a major-league source said.
It doesn’t look like the Brewers gave up much of anything for Contreras.
 

CSF77

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Christian Vazquez to twins. Hoyer setting himself up to get fired


He disagrees

 

Probie2429

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Wonder if there might be interest in bringing back Kimbrel on an incentive based one year deal. Last time he pitched well was here.
 

beckdawg

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Have the cubs said bellinger will play some CF? I figured he would play mostly first base.

Turner is more than a speed and contact guy. He has 124 home runs in his career and his 162 game avg is 24 home runs. He’s got pop in that bat too
I should clarify on Turner. I wasn't implying he didn't have any power i was more talking about how he plays. He's more of an 80's hitter with speed and high contact rate but low walk rate. As you age bat speed and run speed tend to suffer and with how turner plays the game it's gonna hit him harder i feel than it would someone who relies more on their walk rate for on base percentage.

To be clear, i still think his first few years of the deal he'll be real good but cubs need someone who's better over the length of the deal in my eyes rather than a few really good early seasons and then a larger drop off.
 

beckdawg

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regarding bellinger in CF as i'm late to the conversation... reason you play him there over 1B is because A) he's actually an above average defender in CF in a position that is more demanding than most and B) because he has potential to be a big bat at a position historically that lacks good hitters. It's much easier to find a 1B who can defend and hit especially if you're only looking for a guy who plays vs RH with Bellinger potentially sliding to 1B vs LHP and Morel in the outfield.
 

JP Hochbaum

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I think we need to mentally prepare for the reality that we aren't landing Correa or Swanson. With what I am hearing about the lengths of these contracts I wouldn't want to do them either. I know it isn't my money, but bad contracts 7 years from now is not something the Cubs shouldn't want either.
 

knoxville7

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I think we need to mentally prepare for the reality that we aren't landing Correa or Swanson. With what I am hearing about the lengths of these contracts I wouldn't want to do them either. I know it isn't my money, but bad contracts 7 years from now is not something the Cubs shouldn't want either.
In 7 years, 25ish million won’t be the impact it is today
 

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