Cubs Planning "Complete and Total Rebuild"

[dabynsky]

no we are not trust me.

everyone outside of Castro will be moved if the right deal comes along.

I have been advocating this for a few years and glad it is happening we need to retool the whole system to win a WS. We have no talent so it may take 5 years but IMO it is worth it in the long run.

The situation isn't good, but that is a bit of stretch to say we have no talent. We don't have impact players in the high minors outside of Brett Jackson and we don't have enough impact players on the major league roster, but we do have talent. That said I am glad that they committed to one route (they will still make small moves to help the team this year) and not the piecemeal approach of the past decade that was caused by an overreaction to the Cubs lucky 2001 season.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

no we are not trust me.

everyone outside of Castro will be moved if the right deal comes along.

I have been advocating this for a few years and glad it is happening we need to retool the whole system to win a WS. We have no talent so it may take 5 years but IMO it is worth it in the long run.

and you know this..how?

 

[JosMin]

You can't get compensation for Garza as he's still under team control until after 2013. Also, the new CBA kills Type A and Type B compensation. You're asking the Cubs to keep Garza while he makes likely $8MM-10MM this coming season and even more the next with arbitration when they don't seem to be in any position to contend. If that's the case you might as well let someone else pay that money and develop the prospects you get in return.

Trading assets under the Theo regime appears to bring back something of value, for now. You don't make trades just to do it, they have to benefit both teams.

I'd definitely trade for the right price, though.

I thought Garza was in his fifth full season? In that event, it does make him a bit more valuable to trade now if his new team would have another full year of control. A team like Washington or Detroit definitely makes sense to get him.

Trust me, I fully understand that both teams need to get value, but like I said before, what is this team's identity going to be going forward? Just stockpiling talent and not having a vision doesn't make sense. We'll end up turning into the Houston Rockets or Minnesota Wolves of the MLB if that's the case -- tons of talent, absolutely no identity.

I'm also a firm believer that we need to start Brett Jackson Opening Day. Who cares about delaying his arbitration clock? Look at Castro, if he's (Jackson) a piece we're going to count on moving forward, why not let him take a stab at it? Between AA and AAA, he's got almost 800 at-bats. I feel confident that, despite his age, he can produce for us next year and give the fans something to be excited about. I'm fully aware we won't contend next year, but if I don't have ANYTHING to be excited about other than prospects who I can only read about in box scores, than I might as well just not watch the Cubs until these guys land in 2014.

 

[Rice Cube]

I think the reason you delay Brett Jackson is to ensure that he's still under club control when the window of contention opens. That way you keep him affordable and ensure that you have a chance to extend him instead of seeing him hit free agency. That's the only reason I can think of.

I don't think you have to be excited about the team sucking at the MLB level. It seems a necessary evil though. And even if the MLB roster sucks, the scouting/development should improve now that somebody (hopefully) competent is in charge. I'd keep an eye on the minors and amateur signings.

On the plus side, if nobody wants to go to Cubs games, cheaper tickets for me

 

[dabynsky]

I'm also a firm believer that we need to start Brett Jackson Opening Day. Who cares about delaying his arbitration clock? Look at Castro, if he's (Jackson) a piece we're going to count on moving forward, why not let him take a stab at it? Between AA and AAA, he's got almost 800 at-bats. I feel confident that, despite his age, he can produce for us next year and give the fans something to be excited about. I'm fully aware we won't contend next year, but if I don't have ANYTHING to be excited about other than prospects who I can only read about in box scores, than I might as well just not watch the Cubs until these guys land in 2014.

Didn't the Cubs do exactly the same thing with Castro? He came up in May.

I am not sure identity is as important in a game like baseball which is really a collection of individual acts played at the same time as a team sport. I think the thing we have to be excited about is a team that is actually acquiring young talent, and making hard decisions (trading a valuable guy like Sean Marshall) towards the goal. The end result of this direction won't be known for a while so the I told you so's (for either side of the debate) won't be heard for a while.

 

[nwfisch]

Good. :cubs: now and later

 

[bleacherbum54]

and you know this..how?

We wont be serious players I think we will put in a bid like we did Darvish and Pujols but it will be a lowball offer just to say hey we tried. But I have heard Theo isnt gonna add big money free agents at least this year. My buddy could be wrong but he is normally spot on.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

We wont be serious players I think we will put in a bid like we did Darvish and Pujols but it will be a lowball offer just to say hey we tried. But I have heard Theo isnt gonna add big money free agents at least this year. My buddy could be wrong but he is normally spot on.

if there is the opportunity...i dont see theo shying away from it...he's been known as a builder..but also as a guy who can make splashes in free agency

the cubs are/should be up there with the rangers and a couple of other teams as contenders for fielder?

are the favorites to get him? i dont know...probably not...but we certainly have a chance..and its a bit more difficult to gauge the direction of the cubs with his decision still pending

the argument could be made that even with fielder, the cubs are still not that great a team...ehh..i think that having a guy who completely changes the offense with his power ability which also makes the defense honest(obviously, he'll get on base more) will have an impact, we'd probably be an 80 win team or a little higher

if we dont get him...then we probably should go for a rebuilding approach....building a core around younger players and then going for FAs once the core has developed(or when conveniently circumstantial)

even with him...we'll still see some turnover...there seems to be a consensus that the cubs want to get younger...and prince doesnt hurt in that department considering he's 26 i believe...

 

[JosMin]

Didn't the Cubs do exactly the same thing with Castro? He came up in May.

Castro came up in May, yes, but he was also 20-years old and had quite a bit less experience in the minors than Jackson. That's kind of what I was getting it -- if you truly feel he'll have an impact, like the Cubs FO thought Castro would, why not let the guy get his feet wet? Honestly, how is 30 more games in AAA going to make him more prepared for the majors? It won't. All it does is delay is arbitration clock. And yeah, it's a business and you want to save money where you can, but if a guy is going to be one of the faces of your franchise, than that shouldn't matter, he'll obviously be worth spending that extra coin in the long run anyway.

I am not sure identity is as important in a game like baseball which is really a collection of individual acts played at the same time as a team sport. I think the thing we have to be excited about is a team that is actually acquiring young talent, and making hard decisions (trading a valuable guy like Sean Marshall) towards the goal. The end result of this direction won't be known for a while so the I told you so's (for either side of the debate) won't be heard for a while.

I can definitely get behind and appreciate Theo wanting to build a contender from the ground up. Let's face it -- the Cubs weren't good last year. There's a lot of room to improve on every single level, from coaching, to scouting, to the minors and every single facet of their major league team. But I keep going back to direction and image. What is it? What do we have to look forward to? Are we going to build around pitching? Are we finally going to get some left-handed power hitters? What about a real lead-off hitter?

I just want to know that getting rid of our best assets, the only things that keep our team from being remotely competitive, will be worth it. Right now, trading our most consistent relief pitcher who's signed to a good contract for a starter and some invisible parts kind of concerns me as a fan. I just need to have faith, I guess.

 

[Rice Cube]

If you kept everything that the Cubs had before Theo...what would you say the direction was?

 

[Captain Obvious]

MLBTR's live chat says the Cubs won't go into full-rebuild.

fwiw.

MLBTR Chat - Live Blog Live Blogging

3:42

Around 3:50 he answers my question of what if your favorite saber stat.

no we are not trust me.

everyone outside of Castro will be moved if the right deal comes along.

I have been advocating this for a few years and glad it is happening we need to retool the whole system to win a WS. We have no talent so it may take 5 years but IMO it is worth it in the long run.

Are you the Theo Epstein?

Castro came up in May, yes, but he was also 20-years old and had quite a bit less experience in the minors than Jackson. That's kind of what I was getting it -- if you truly feel he'll have an impact, like the Cubs FO thought Castro would, why not let the guy get his feet wet? Honestly, how is 30 more games in AAA going to make him more prepared for the majors? It won't. All it does is delay is arbitration clock. And yeah, it's a business and you want to save money where you can, but if a guy is going to be one of the faces of your franchise, than that shouldn't matter, he'll obviously be worth spending that extra coin in the long run anyway.

Yes, he will be worth it. But, why spend extra money when you don't have to?

I can definitely get behind and appreciate Theo wanting to build a contender from the ground up. Let's face it -- the Cubs weren't good last year. There's a lot of room to improve on every single level, from coaching, to scouting, to the minors and every single facet of their major league team. But I keep going back to direction and image. What is it? What do we have to look forward to? Are we going to build around pitching? Are we finally going to get some left-handed power hitters? What about a real lead-off hitter?

I just want to know that getting rid of our best assets, the only things that keep our team from being remotely competitive, will be worth it. Right now, trading our most consistent relief pitcher who's signed to a good contract for a starter and some invisible parts kind of concerns me as a fan. I just need to have faith, I guess.

A) Why don't you let Theo worry about the direction and image of the team. He is the one that is getting paid to do that.

B) We have a real lead-off hitter. His name is Jesus DeChrist.

C) You're concerned as a fan because you think you're smarter than Theo Epstein. You're not.

 

[DewsSox79]

Around 3:50 he answers my question of what if your favorite saber stat.



Are you the Theo Epstein?


Yes, he will be worth it. But, why spend extra money when you don't have to?




A) Why don't you let Theo worry about the direction and image of the team. He is the one that is getting paid to do that.

B) We have a real lead-off hitter. His name is Jesus DeChrist.

C) You're concerned as a fan because you think you're smarter than Theo Epstein. You're not.

This is the post of the year. This is coming from a fucking ass clown poster who thinks he runs the cubs. you are such a hypocrit.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

C) You're concerned as a fan because you think you're smarter than Theo Epstein. You're not.

http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/chicago-cubs-forum/16566-bryan-lahair-called-up-3.html

do you still think you're smarter than some coaches/managers?

 

[Rice Cube]

This is the post of the year. This is coming from a fucking ass clown poster who thinks he runs the cubs. you are such a hypocrit.

To be fair, most fans of the Cubs think they run the Cubs :lol:

 

[DewsSox79]

http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/chicago-cubs-forum/16566-bryan-lahair-called-up-3.html

do you still think you're smarter than some coaches/managers?

:clap:

 

[Captain Obvious]

This is the post of the year. This is coming from a fucking ass clown poster who thinks he runs the cubs. you are such a hypocrit.

Hypocrite. Learn to spell, buckaroo.

http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/chicago-cubs-forum/16566-bryan-lahair-called-up-3.html

do you still think you're smarter than some coaches/managers?

I absolutely do. I think that every poster here is smarter than at least one player/manager. I don't see how knowledge affects a players skill set. Skill set is why the players are there. I don't buy the whole players being smarter than anyone argument.

I don't think for a second that I am smarter than Theo or really any front office person.

 

[Rice Cube]

Well, you might be smarter than Ned Colletti or Brian Sabean :lol:

They simply have more information than us internet junkies. So what seems like a crazy decision might not be.

 

[DewsSox79]

Hypocrite. Learn to spell, buckaroo.

I absolutely do. I think that every poster here is smarter than at least one player/manager. I don't see how knowledge affects a players skill set. Skill set is why the players are there. I don't buy the whole players being smarter than anyone argument.

I don't think for a second that I am smarter than Theo or really any front office person.

Zing! you got me! good comeback though..........try again.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I absolutely do. I think that every poster here is smarter than at least one player/manager.

baseball smart? for MLB managers i strongly disagree..those guys are PROFESSIONAL MANAGERS who get paid a great amount because they are some of the best at managing lineups and teams...and have a vast knowledge of the game itself

I don't see how knowledge affects a players skill set. Skill set is why the players are there. I don't buy the whole players being smarter than anyone argument.

players is a little bit of a different story....there are some dumb players out there...all MLB players have a higher skill set than your average CCS poster...and i'd argue most have a higher knowledge of the pragmatical aspects of the game when you play and learn from it your whole life...especially playing against the best and learning from essentially professional baseball managers

i mean when you think about it alot of managers are formerly players..because they have tangible experience but also because as professional players they gained alot of knowledge that they could be able to apply as managers

I don't think for a second that I am smarter than Theo or really any front office person.

i agree with what you're implying here..that the front office people have the most pure intelligence...when they manage the financial aspect of the team..which arguably becomes more meticulous than being a manager or a player(i mean mentally meticulous)

 

[AddisonStation]

Ughhhhh, even in a rebuilding period I don't like the idea of LaHair being the starting 1B.