Cub's Prospect Watch And Development Discussion Thread

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CSF77

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http://www.minorleagueball.com/2014/8/19/6043435/looking-past-the-stat-line-noah-syndergaard

Looking past the stat line: Noah Syndergaard
By Dan Weigel  @DanWiggles38 on Aug 19 2014, 11:00a

"Don’t scout the stat line" is a phrase commonly heard in scouting circles, especially when it comes to scouting Minor League or amateur players. There are a multitude of factors that play into a players’ stat line other than his true talent, including luck, age relative to his level, park factors, health, and transition to pro ball. For these reasons, it is essential to separate the numbers from the true talent, but when the numbers do not match the talent, it is often worth a second look to examine the causes of the poor numbers. Was the initial evaluation of the player inaccurate or can the poor performance be explained by other reasons? Have the tools that helped the player initially climb the lists regressed?

Using the Baseball Prospectus Midseason Top 50 Prospect list as our guide, there are four pitching prospects whose 2014 statistics do not match their high rankings. These prospects are, with their BP midseason ranking in parenthesis, Mets’ righty Noah Syndergaard (9), Reds’ righty Robert Stephenson (10), Diamondbacks’ righty Archie Bradley (14), and Astros’ righty Mark Appel (34).

This week, I’ll be examining one of these players each day. In today’s post, the first in this series, I will discuss Mets’ righthander Noah Syndergaard.

Syndergaard's 2014 Statistics

118.1 IP, 4.72 ERA, 1.507 ERA, 138 Hits, 11 HR, 40 BB, 127 K



Prior to 2014, many Mets fans expected Syndergaard to be the 2014 version of Zack Wheeler by performing well in the Minor Leagues, earning a midseason promotion to New York, and establishing himself in the Mets' rotation for years to come. Although that expectation was not met this season, there is little cause for concern about the hard throwing righthander’s long-term outlook.

Though it seems like he has been around for quite a while, Syndergaard is still just 21 years old and already in Triple-A. The third-youngest player on an Opening Day PCL roster, many players his age are either still in college or finding their way in the low minors. Second, the big righty is throwing in one of the most hitter-friendly parks in one of the most hitter friendly leagues in all of Minor League baseball. This will certainly negatively affect his numbers, especially the hits and home runs allowed.

These things considered, there are many positives in Syndergaard’s stat line this season. Most importantly, he is a hard thrower who has stayed healthy and logged 118.1 innings this season. He will get a few more starts before the end of the season and is on track for close to a full MLB starters’ workload next season, assuming he makes the club. Syndergaard also has struck out more than a batter per inning, which suggests his stuff is fine, and has walked a reasonable 3.04 hitters per nine. His K/BB ratio, one of the statistics I most highly value, is a solid 3.18.

When we factor in the park effects, the most likely contributor to his .379 BABIP and 11 home runs (despite allowing just 78 fly balls – a 24.68% rate), his numbers look even better. Both the hit and home run totals are inflated and reflect neither his true talent nor his performance this season. If these numbers were to normalize, Syndergaard’s ERA and WHIP would drop to the point where this discussion would no longer be necessary.

Instead of being disappointed, I am pleased with how Syndergaard has thrown this season. He got hit around in a hitter’s park a bit, but he still showed signs of dominance by racking up the sixth most strikeouts in all of Triple-A baseball this season. The tools that landed him ninth on the BP Midseason Top 50 are intact, and though the young fireballer hasn’t been able to make his MLB debut and solidify himself as planned, his future outlook remains unchanged.

2015 Outlook


The Mets may hold Syndergaard in the Minors for a few weeks to secure an extra year of team control, but expect Syndergaard to spend most of the 2015 season in New York. Once he gets there, initially expect lots of strikeouts, a few more walks, and average ratios. In the long run, however, Syndergaard could use his frontline stuff to become a frontline starter and join a stacked young pitching core including the aforementioned Zack Wheeler and the returning Matt Harvey.

. . .


All statistics courtesy of FanGraphs and MLB Farm. Prospect rankings courtesy of Baseball Prospectus

Dan Weigel, who has no idea how Syndergaard got the nickname "Thor", is a contributing writer for Minor League Ball and Beyond the Box Score. His tweets about prospects and stats are found at @DanWiggles38.
 

remixdjinx

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So Addison Russell for Noah Syndergaard strait up?

I'm not to up on Noah. Just looking at it it makes sense for both teams. Mets are getting Matt Harvey back and have a clear need for a bat like Russell going forward. Noah would be the best arm in the system.

Well seeing how next year Russell would be in AAA and Noah would be on the Cubs... Might be worth it.
Gawd, please no......
 

beckdawg

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So Addison Russell for Noah Syndergaard strait up?

I'm not to up on Noah. Just looking at it it makes sense for both teams. Mets are getting Matt Harvey back and have a clear need for a bat like Russell going forward. Noah would be the best arm in the system.

Well seeing how next year Russell would be in AAA and Noah would be on the Cubs... Might be worth it.

Frankly, it's unlikely that would be enough on the met's side given that Russell netted Shark.
 

CSF77

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Gawd, please no......

Why? So they have no top arm prospect? Just to cause a over load on MI's. So when Soler and Bryant hit the team where do you put Russell and Almora? On the bench?

I get the over load mentality but in the end some one gets traded and you always look at return value at that point. Not at who is at SS in 3 years.

Bottom line is thye have Castro now and they do have a real problem with quality SP. They could not get any TOR prospects from the Shark deal and had to get the best bat they could instead. If they can get a top 10 RH SP prospect that they can get 20-25 starts out of next year is it worth it? That is a real question.

1 fact is for sure. Thor in the rotation makes it interesting going forward. Waiting to trade Castro in another year for a A baller is not making this team better now.
 

CSF77

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Frankly, it's unlikely that would be enough on the met's side given that Russell netted Shark.

Depends on what their value is. What is Noah's top end? Shark? Seems like he has that make up. I'm not a fan or followed him. But again it comes down to 2015.

Would yo rather trade Castro for a A baller or have 25 GS from a potential TOR?
 

beckdawg

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Depends on what their value is. What is Noah's top end? Shark? Seems like he has that make up. I'm not a fan or followed him. But again it comes down to 2015.

Would yo rather trade Castro for a A baller or have 25 GS from a potential TOR?

But it's not just about a players top end because as we've seen with numerous pitchers injuries often wreck them. You then add in the fact that prospects are inherently risky. Shark was already pitching at that level.

Don't get me wrong, I like Thor but if you look at what other SS prospects have gone for 1 to 1 deals typically aren't where it's at. It's often the SS have more value.
 

theberserkfury

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[video=youtube;fVnWcAY-iIs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVnWcAY-iIs[/video]

This is Russell hitting a grand slam yesterday. That crack is such a nice sound.

Mmmm... I love me some crack.
 

CSF77

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But it's not just about a players top end because as we've seen with numerous pitchers injuries often wreck them. You then add in the fact that prospects are inherently risky. Shark was already pitching at that level.

Don't get me wrong, I like Thor but if you look at what other SS prospects have gone for 1 to 1 deals typically aren't where it's at. It's often the SS have more value.

You can't make decisions based off of potential injury. That is why the front office has taken a bat in the first round and the next 26 rounds have been arms for the most part.

Now that said we are talking about a 21 yo AAA pitcher that with Theo's history will be babied the first year. 2 weeks delayed I'll bet in Azl to make sure his arm is ready and to get another year of control then 25 games max. Like they did with Shark. Then year 2 they let him go.

The whole scare thing happens. But it can be managed. My opinion is what happened to Prior could have been avoided but Baker sold the future for a shot in 2003.

They came up short and lost an ace out of the deal.
 

Parade_Rain

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He had a mechanical timing flaw according to some pitching experts. I'm not sure I would put that on Baker.
 

beckdawg

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You can't make decisions based off of potential injury.

I'm not saying you avoid making the trade based on potential. I'm saying you evaluate the value of the trade based on knowing those sort of risks. Keep in mind it's not just me saying this. Many NYC reports have said they didn't think Thor alone was enough to net one of the cubs SS.
 

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He had a mechanical timing flaw according to some pitching experts. I'm not sure I would put that on Baker.

It was a long time ago, but I feel like the Giles collision took him off the rails for a bit too...
 

CSF77

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He had a mechanical timing flaw according to some pitching experts. I'm not sure I would put that on Baker.

Over work was a big issue. He was getting into 235 PC in his rook year.
 

CSF77

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It was a long time ago, but I feel like the Giles collision took him off the rails for a bit too...

The first thing that messed him up was a calf injury. He was over training them and had to back off on them. But that was were he was generating his power from. After that injury the injuries started. So went from lower body power generation to upper body.
 

chibears55

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@smokiesbaseball: Addison Russell is at it again! A two-run homer in his first at bat gives the Smokies a 2-0 lead in the 1st! #ChicksDigTheLongBall
 

remixdjinx

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Why? So they have no top arm prospect? Just to cause a over load on MI's. So when Soler and Bryant hit the team where do you put Russell and Almora? On the bench?

I get the over load mentality but in the end some one gets traded and you always look at return value at that point. Not at who is at SS in 3 years.

Bottom line is thye have Castro now and they do have a real problem with quality SP. They could not get any TOR prospects from the Shark deal and had to get the best bat they could instead. If they can get a top 10 RH SP prospect that they can get 20-25 starts out of next year is it worth it? That is a real question.

1 fact is for sure. Thor in the rotation makes it interesting going forward. Waiting to trade Castro in another year for a A baller is not making this team better now.
I'd rather have Russell, than Castro...I want both.....I don't want to see the Cubs trade away prospects, for other prospects. Too much failure involved. Trade prospects for proven players. Sign FAs...Lester or Price or etc.....

If i was a Met fan...I would also hate this too...If Noah is as good as he is suppose to be....Why trade him? They could have the 90's Braves pitching rotation...

just my opinion...
 

Boobaby1

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I wouldn't trade Russell. I'd be looking at the lower levels of farm.

Russell is who every team is going to want. Stellar defense, hits for average, and hits for power. I don't want to, but I would be more inclined to trade Baez before Russell if I had to make a move.

The Cubs can always find a power bat to replace someone like Javy if he were to be traded and it netted top end pitching, but it would be hard to let go of players like Russell that have those kinds of tools.
 

CSF77

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Russell is who every team is going to want. Stellar defense, hits for average, and hits for power. I don't want to, but I would be more inclined to trade Baez before Russell if I had to make a move.

The Cubs can always find a power bat to replace someone like Javy if he were to be traded and it netted top end pitching, but it would be hard to let go of players like Russell that have those kinds of tools.

IDK. You are talking a .330/ 20 HR type vs a .260 50 HR type if they meet their projections. Most teams would give up much to have Baez.
 

beckdawg

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Russell is who every team is going to want. Stellar defense, hits for average, and hits for power. I don't want to, but I would be more inclined to trade Baez before Russell if I had to make a move.

The Cubs can always find a power bat to replace someone like Javy if he were to be traded and it netted top end pitching, but it would be hard to let go of players like Russell that have those kinds of tools.

If things mostly work out do they really even need his power? Bryant's probably in the 35-40 HR range. Rizzo is in the 30-35. You then have Soler, Alcantara, Castro, Russell, and Schwarber all with above average power.
 

Boobaby1

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If things mostly work out do they really even need his power? Bryant's probably in the 35-40 HR range. Rizzo is in the 30-35. You then have Soler, Alcantara, Castro, Russell, and Schwarber all with above average power.

Agreed. In fact, I had originally posted it, but removed it later. A Nelson Cruz type can supplement the power part of it, and in fact, strike out less for that matter. Baez may save on money, but what he could fetch in the pitching department could be huge too.

That is kind of why I am hoping they make a serious run at Melky Cabrera. Another one with decent power, but provides OBP, Average, and switch hitting speed at the top of the line-up.

It's always nice to have guys aboard when a home run is hit. Something the Cubs struggle to do.
 
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