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chibears55
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Bottom line is this... Alcantara is a very good prospect, but for him to force the cubs to trade Castro for him to play every day he needs to put up biigger numbers and Castro needs to keep sinking.
I think the cubs would prefer the offensive projections of castro and baez up the middle over baez and Alcantara.
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I think the cubs would prefer the offensive projections of castro and baez up the middle over baez and Alcantara.
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CSF77
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CSF77
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Make him our ace then
Move over Babe
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Yall guys are being ridiculous. I mean I know he is already going to the hall of fame, but pitching? Now, yall are just being silly!
:flipa:
:flipa:
beckdawg
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Again, I said if Baez can play the position. If they didn't believe he could he would be playing 2B full time in rather than just getting a look. I'm not saying the errors are meaningless just that they seem to believe they are correctable. Castro was far from ready as a rookie and he eventually got better which i referenced in his error stats. I believe Baez will work out similarly. However, if he goes out and commits 40 errors again he probably falls into the "can't play the position" category I mentioned and ends up at 2B. On the other hand if he goes out and commits 20-25 errors we're having an entirely different conversation. And I believe that's what will happen and I think that he will vastly improve before he hits the majors so I don't think it will be a case of hoping things change at the major level.
And to show what I mean look at this. They don't have UZR stats for minors but if you look at typical fielding stats this was Castro's first two years in the majors
2010 - 544 chances 27 errors .950 fielding percent
2011 - 742 chances 29 errors .961 fielding percent
Now if we look at Baez in the minors you see this
2012 - 340 chances 17 errors .950 fielding percent
2013 Daytona - 396 chances 31 errors .922 fielding percent
2013 Tenn - 248 chances 13 errors .948 fielding percent
I'm not going to speculate why he was so terrible at Daytona last year but he was better at Tenn. and 2012/Tenn's fielding percentage is in line with Castro's first season in the majors. Now don't get me wrong, .950 fielding percent isn't stellar and you'd like to see him improve from there. All I'm saying is Castro is a career .961 fielding percent guy and other than Daytona Baez looks like he could be at least a .950 guy. So, I think he can improve similar to what Castro did.
chibears55
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Why is it si difficult to realize that Baez is getting a taste of 2B because when they call him up in June that exactly where he will be playing. Their not trading Castro or moving castro to 2B this season.
Alcantara is a full season plus (next June) from maybe getting to the majors if he excells in AA/AAA.
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Alcantara is a full season plus (next June) from maybe getting to the majors if he excells in AA/AAA.
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beckdawg
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I'm talking about a long term plan not what's best for 2014. If he's a lock for 2B long term why even keep playing him at SS in the minors? That's just setting back his adjustment to the position. If there's no chance he's going to stay at SS you would be wasting your time trying to keep him there.
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He isnt playing short this year unless Castro goes down. Once they move him, I have hard time believing they are going to move him back to short at any time. Also, teams keep players at their positions until it is absolutely necessary to move them. The Cubs are starting to see its necessary. His bat is forcing the Cubs hand not his D.
chibears55
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Because he not actually locked at 2B right now..
Their taking a look at him there to give him a taste and see how he handles it because that most likely where he plays if he brought up in June.
But he still going to play SS in minors because that his position now and he a Castro injury or declining season away from taking that position over.
Where he plays in 2015 and beyond full time will most likely be determined in off season based on how it all plays out this year.
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beckdawg
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Maybe, I mean I'm not saying it's a guarantee either way. People are just locking him in to 2B I think that's a mistake. What if Castro throws out another season like 2013? What if Bonifacio is hitting like 2011 at the same time as that? What then? Does Baez play SS over Castro at midseason?
Regardless, I'm tired of this debate. I'm of the opinion that Baez holds the most value for the cubs as a SS. If people don't agree that's fine. I'm sure there's not much more I can say that I already have.
CSF77
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Baez projects anywhere on the diamond. It is his bat that is going to push him into the majors. Not his glove.
That said Castro has to get forced out of SS or they have surplus and a team wants Castro and is willing to give up a top of the rotation in return.
For example: Castro bounces back and puts up a .290/.335/.450 line. Baez gets promoted in June and goes to 2B. Plays well enough. Alcantara puts up a .280/.365/.490 line in a full season in Iowa playing 2B.
Now if a team comes calling for Castro: ie Yanks post Jeter retirement and they pull a trade where they can get a top arm or 2 in return. Sure that makes sense.
Or Lake busts this year and they do not want to go long term with Bonn. Then sure Alcantara in CF leading off makes sense. Sure Almora most likely will be in Tenn at that point. I do not believe they will fast track him and just let him develop. So at that point Alcantara has 2 years to prove himself at the major league level.
When Almora promotes Castro is making more per and short term and they may move him and shift things around. Almora = Cheaper Castro production at that point.
That said Castro has to get forced out of SS or they have surplus and a team wants Castro and is willing to give up a top of the rotation in return.
For example: Castro bounces back and puts up a .290/.335/.450 line. Baez gets promoted in June and goes to 2B. Plays well enough. Alcantara puts up a .280/.365/.490 line in a full season in Iowa playing 2B.
Now if a team comes calling for Castro: ie Yanks post Jeter retirement and they pull a trade where they can get a top arm or 2 in return. Sure that makes sense.
Or Lake busts this year and they do not want to go long term with Bonn. Then sure Alcantara in CF leading off makes sense. Sure Almora most likely will be in Tenn at that point. I do not believe they will fast track him and just let him develop. So at that point Alcantara has 2 years to prove himself at the major league level.
When Almora promotes Castro is making more per and short term and they may move him and shift things around. Almora = Cheaper Castro production at that point.
CSF77
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The thing is these guys are athletic enough to adjust and are willing to adjust to get an opertunity.
Performance is going to dictate what happens.
Performance is going to dictate what happens.
beckdawg
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Like I said, I think we've hashed this out as much as is need but what you're saying here is essentially what I was getting at. If I came off as 2014 should be Baez and Alcantara at SS and 2B that was never my intention. I'm just really high on Alcantara. I think he may end up being a better player than both Almora and Soler. I could be wrong but it feels like a lot may over look him because he's not one of the "big four." All I'm saying is don't sleep on him. I think he can be a 20/30+ guy who walks enough to be a .350 OBP type. Kipnis did that last year and was a 4.5 WAR player at 2B. Lofty numbers I realize but that is probably his skill cap.
CSF77
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Almora as I posted = Castro on a good year with better D.
He is not dynamic but neither was Jeter.
He is not dynamic but neither was Jeter.
CSF77
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Accually with B. Jaxx hitting right now I'm wondering if Mags took him under his wing. A 5 RBI day is impressive.
Boobaby1
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I think some are missing the boat completely here IMO. A lot of people seem to think that if Castro rebounds, that he is a shoe-in to stay with the Cubs which is completely not true. His value will soar with a good year, and he will become the most expendable part to add much needed help in other targeted areas such as pitching. This also doesn't mean that Baez would be the obvious choice to throw in the SS role either if Castro were indeed traded.
The Cubs could trade Castro, still move Baez to 2B, even play Alcantara at SS or CF too, or simply acquire one via free agency like the Cardinals did. Castro would be one of the best ways for the Cubs to get ready made, or near ready pitching on the team. For instance with Shark, they are generally trading pitching for future pitching in most cases or rumors. With Castro, they have an abundance of infielders right now, so that is the best areas to look to trade players.
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beckdawg
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Alcantara was pretty bad at SS in the minors error wise like.... way worse than Baez was(.900 fielding% IIRC). So, I doubt he's a realistic contender to play SS.
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