Cub's Prospect Watch And Development Discussion Thread

[chibears55]

Just saw this on a tweet. . Interesting. .

In short: Cubs traded 25 Dempster/Garza starts for Villanueva, Hendricks, Olt, Edwards, Grimm & Neil Ramirez. Crazy, eh?

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[CSF77]

"I thought way too short term with the Garza deal last year. That one's got a chance to haunt us and haunt me," Rangers GM Jon Daniels told Zach Buchanan of the Arizona Republic in reference to his trade with the Cubs. Daniels gave up C.J. Edwards, Mike Olt, Justin Grimm and Neil Ramirez for Garza. Olt could soon make an impact in the big leagues, but it's Edwards and Ramirez who might turn out to be the keys to the deal -- Edwards was terrific down the stretch last year for Class A+ Daytona, and Ramirez has pitched well in spring training after posting a terrific strikeout rate in Double-A last season.

 

[SilenceS]

"I thought way too short term with the Garza deal last year. That one's got a chance to haunt us and haunt me," Rangers GM Jon Daniels told Zach Buchanan of the Arizona Republic in reference to his trade with the Cubs. Daniels gave up C.J. Edwards, Mike Olt, Justin Grimm and Neil Ramirez for Garza. Olt could soon make an impact in the big leagues, but it's Edwards and Ramirez who might turn out to be the keys to the deal -- Edwards was terrific down the stretch last year for Class A+ Daytona, and Ramirez has pitched well in spring training after posting a terrific strikeout rate in Double-A last season.

Yea, I dont think Nolan Ryan agreed with the trade. He didnt seem that thrilled when he got interviewed last year. Read that Daniels has an ego problem.

 

[dabynsky]

Yea, I dont think Nolan Ryan agreed with the trade. He didnt seem that thrilled when he got interviewed last year. Read that Daniels has an ego problem.

Ryan was a big CJ Edwards fan as I recall from those comments.

 

[CSF77]

I thought it was a heist.

 

[beckdawg]

The trade seems stupid in retrospect not simply for what they gave up but the fact that Garza was bad enough that they didn't even try to bring him back. I mean granted the cubs got quite a few "if" types in the deal but that seems like a huge over pay compared to say the Feldman deal when Garza and Feldman ended up making similar money in FA. I'm not saying Feldman's as good of a pitcher but the market dictated that Garza was closer to Feldman and the Rangers arguably gave up the step below true ace type return.

 

[patg006]

Just saw this on a tweet. . Interesting. .

In short: Cubs traded 25 Dempster/Garza starts for Villanueva, Hendricks, Olt, Edwards, Grimm & Neil Ramirez. Crazy, eh?

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Or, gasp, they could have actually spent money and resigned Dempster and Garza and gotten many more quality major league starts instead of a bunch of if's and probably never will be's.

How terrible that would have been.

Having quality major league players instead of a bunch of minor league players.

 

[Boobaby1]

Or, gasp, they could have actually spent money and resigned Dempster and Garza and gotten many more quality major league starts instead of a bunch of if's and probably never will be's.

How terrible that would have been.

Having quality major league players instead of a bunch of minor league players.

With "Z", Soriano, and Byrd, the FO did not do the right thing and should have let the contracts expire in my opinion. However, with Dempster and Garza, I feel they most certainly did do the right thing.

Dempster is no longer pitching and he and Garza both sported their highest ERA's and WHIP's basically ever after leaving the Cubs. Plus, nobody was really knocking down the door to sign Garza. :smh:

 

[Parade_Rain]

Let alone that with how the trades went last year, it looks as if the Cubs may have finally reversed their fortune and gotten better in the trade.

 

[chibears55]

With "Z", Soriano, and Byrd, the FO did not do the right thing and should have let the contracts expire in my opinion. However, with Dempster and Garza, I feel they most certainly did do the right thing.

Dempster is no longer pitching and he and Garza both sported their highest ERA's and WHIP's basically ever after leaving the Cubs. Plus, nobody was really knocking down the door to sign Garza. :smh:

I agree with soriano ,but I think if anything that was a move to allow him a chance to win before he retires.
Big Z I think was more that he wore out his welcome with his teammates and the organization just had enough of his antics.
Byrd was really sucking ass at the time, wasnt he hitting like .100 going into may ? I Think he benefitted from moving on ,that a move where you might be damned if you do or damned if you dont.

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[beckdawg]

I agree with soriano ,but I think if anything that was a move to allow him a chance to win before he retires.

I think it's more than just that. It was an outside chance that someone steps up and becomes more of a long term piece. For example, if Soriano is around maybe Kalish never gets a shot and maybe Kalish turns his career back around after having injury issues. Sure it's "lightning in a bottle" type thinking but what's it cost you? Soriano wasn't in the long term plans anyways. And yeah you're paying him but your not paying him the full amount and someone like Kalish is making the minimum so you are still coming out ahead money wise. I'm not going to get to far into it but I just don't see that Soriano provided anything that was irreplaceable. Sure he's got power but what the cubs lack last year was players who can get on base and he along with castro and barney were a huge part of the problem.

At the end of the day playing him in LF had a cost which was both more money and the cost of someone else getting a chance. I'm of the opinion that if you're not part of the future then you should be moved for whatever you can get because the present quite clearly isn't ready to compete and no one with a realistic view on what the front office has budget wise would suggest they can fill enough of the holes they have there to change that.

 

[CSF77]

Sori was moved to open up playing time to Lake. Age is a big factor here.

Byrd played himself out of a job then popped at Boston. Ya he rebounded the next year but that was post roiding up.

Z sucked after signing his deal. I could have been mileage on his arm. I believe he stopped caring. He was driven by anger with the Cubs. He lost a mile or 5 off of his stuff and he was never the same.

The whole Kalish thing? Not sure about that. Kalish has no bearing on trading Sori. Not with the team. That deal was made to get Lake out in LF and to get playing time. Sori was not in the long term plans and they needed to see if Lake was.

 

[czman]

The only diffrence between 2B an SS is the pivot on the x2. Most foot work is similar.

A good arm is needed at 2B. See a grounder up the middle. Having a gun pays off with his momentum going towards LF. A slow roller to short may turn into X2 on the turn.

His problem at SS was with him rushing the throw. Having a bigger chunk of routine players closer to 1B means lower errors. Basic stuff.

3B is another animal. That is quick reactions and triangulation. So on a grounder towards the line the 3B moves at a angle back to intercept the ball path vs cutting in or directly towards the bag. That increases the time to intercept.

There is a reason why 3B is not a spot where any one can just jump in.

CSF I want you to know that I have a lot of respect for your knowledge, but WTF are you talking about. It is impossible for a human to triangulate a moving object with their eyes, being as they can only be in one spot at a time. That has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever read.

2/3/SS are all the same in that the player will have to find the ball, catch the ball, and then throw the ball. 3B is the furthest away and closet to home so it has the shortest reaction time and the longest throw. Baez would be fine there. I actually like Baez as a corner OF more. I think his arm, athleticism, and power would play very well in LF.

It looks like he is going to be a 2b right now. If Olt is going to 3rd and Castro stays at SS and they keep Baez in the IF there is only one spot left.

 

[CSF77]

Mike Lowell went over it with Harold Reynolds. Renoylds went over the pivot at 2B and Lowell talked about how 3B is more about triangulation and knowing the right angle to intercept the ball.

Other words being able to fade back at a angle vs cut towards the bag.

So if you move 3 steps. in is towards the ball lessening intercept time. Fading back to the line gives more time to intercept the ball.

So ya it has alot to do with physics.

 

[patg006]

Sori was moved to open up playing time to Lake. Age is a big factor here.

Soriano was traded to save a couple million dollars with the team knowing full well there wasn't a quality replacement.

Money was the only factor here.

 

[dabynsky]

Soriano was traded to save a couple million dollars with the team knowing full well there wasn't a quality replacement.

Money was the only factor here.

[video=youtube;butZyxI-PRs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=butZyxI-PRs[/video]

 

[CSF77]

Soriano was traded to save a couple million dollars with the team knowing full well there wasn't a quality replacement.

Money was the only factor here.

They saved 5 mil. Not really a huge savings here.

 

[chibears55]

They saved 5 mil. Not really a huge savings here.

Why bother replying. . Your only taking the bait

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[CSF77]

Why bother replying. . Your only taking the bait

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I know. Just pointing out how silly that was. 5 mil savings.....cha ching.

 

[TL1961]

Or, gasp, they could have actually spent money and resigned Dempster and Garza and gotten many more quality major league starts instead of a bunch of if's and probably never will be's.

How terrible that would have been.

Having quality major league players instead of a bunch of minor league players.

So, going into 2014 and 2015 you would prefer Ryan Dempster to Hendricks and Villanueva? Dempster is out of baseball.

You'd prefer to tie millions up in Garza to having CJ Edwards, Mike Olt and Neil Ramirez in 2015? 2016?