Cub's Prospect Watch And Development Discussion Thread

[TL1961]

It is funny (or sad) to see people ***** about where the team is, talent-wise and then ***** when we acquire new players.

I guess they think you build a team by signing 25 FA's - all superstars - and fit them into your budget.

But, then again, if we pursue a FA, they *****.

 

[CSF77]

I'm fine with them building the line up via trade/draft and development. They need to invest into a rotation. If shark is the best they have that is a core problem. They over spent on a career .500 pitcher then they have used 2/5 of the rotation for trade goods.

They are not trying to win they are trying to build a farm. I can see the legit gripe that some have with that.

 

[Jntg4]

So, going into 2014 and 2015 you would prefer Ryan Dempster to Hendricks and Villanueva? Dempster is out of baseball.

You'd prefer to tie millions up in Garza to having CJ Edwards, Mike Olt and Neil Ramirez in 2015? 2016?

Yes, because their is no value at all of having prospects. They should do "both", but never acquire any prospects in trade.

 

[CSF77]

Yes, because their is no value at all of having prospects. They should do "both", but never acquire any prospects in trade.

Case by case. Garza wanted over value. He ended getting less than Jackson got. The return was over value for the control by the Rangers.

Dempster was age. If he was 30 I would not have agreed with it. Seeing how he lost this year it was just a matter of time where age caught up. He got a ring out of it so good for him.

 

[CSF77]

Shark they should extend. Low miles on his arm. He shouldn't burn up in his 30's. That one I'll call them out on as short sighted.

 

[chibears55]

I'm fine with them building the line up via trade/draft and development. They need to invest into a rotation. If shark is the best they have that is a core problem. They over spent on a career .500 pitcher then they have used 2/5 of the rotation for trade goods.

They are not trying to win they are trying to build a farm. I can see the legit gripe that some have with that.[/QUOT


the problem with them doing BOTH 2 years ago when this started, and held onto Aram, Soto, Soriano, Dempster, ETC... they still would of been a mediocre border line playoff team at best.. they would of been drafting in the bottom half of the first round and would not of received the extra money to be able to spend in both regular and international drafts, so by having this their minor league system would still be mediocre with no depth.

now that their system has developed some quality depth and were going to start seeing who from the system will take that big step forward onto the major team, then they will or should start doing the BOTH thing and add the money FAs where needed.

Again maybe im wrong on this but didn't the contract with Zell have a big reason on why they needed to keep payroll at a low amount for a few years ?
which is another reason why they chose the route of gutting the team and rebooting the minor league system over adding high cost FAs..

 

[CSF77]

Again maybe im wrong on this but didn't the contract with Zell have a big reason on why they needed to keep payroll at a low amount for a few years ?
which is another reason why they chose the route of gutting the team and rebooting the minor league system over adding high cost FAs..

No one knows exact details. Something to do with MLB rules on profitability to debt %.

Zell made a deal where the trib would own 5-10% and the Ricketts owned the rest. The payment load would be put into a fund . Then they would sit on it until a time allotment passed where Zell could take the cash with out paying the tax. (scam) During that time the Ricketts could not pay off the debt on the loans. (part of the contract) and MLB rules on the other side said they have to be making a profit= to a set % of the amount owed. So less profit less payouts more more. Now resource like TV/signage would add to the profit which a % (same as MLB rules) could be put towards pay outs.

Now with the WGN deal ending thing should get interesting. It seems that fox puts out the best TV deals. Comcast has not been a profitable venture for the Ricketts relative to the market size. But I believe they are tied up into it until 2019. Not sure if they could buy out their shares.

the problem with them doing BOTH 2 years ago when this started, and held onto Aram, Soto, Soriano, Dempster, ETC... they still would of been a mediocre border line playoff team at best.. they would of been drafting in the bottom half of the first round and would not of received the extra money to be able to spend in both regular and international drafts, so by having this their minor league system would still be mediocre with no depth.

At the time I felt that it would take Fielder/Cespedes and retaining A-Ram to keep up with the Cards. Yes age would have caught up but Baez would be ready still.

They decided to punt with Rizzo and signing a long term project vs a now answer in Cespedes. Again it is tied to cost needed to run the shop with a bad TV deal and a limitation with the Zell deal.

 

[patg006]

It is funny (or sad) to see people ***** about where the team is, talent-wise and then ***** when we acquire new players.

I guess they think you build a team by signing 25 FA's - all superstars - and fit them into your budget.

But, then again, if we pursue a FA, they *****.

It is funny (or sad) to see idiots ***** about things that no person has ever said.

 

[patg006]

They saved 5 mil. Not really a huge savings here.

$5M is roughly 6% of the entire payroll for this year.

 

[patg006]

So, going into 2014 and 2015 you would prefer Ryan Dempster to Hendricks and Villanueva? Dempster is out of baseball.

Hendricks and Villanueva are out of major league baseball also.

So there is no difference on the Chicago Cubs.

You'd prefer to tie millions up in Garza to having CJ Edwards, Mike Olt and Neil Ramirez in 2015? 2016?

I prefer having a quality major league pitcher over a bunch of lottery tickets

 

[Jntg4]

Hendricks and Villanueva are out of major league baseball also.

So there is no difference on the Chicago Cubs.




I prefer having a quality major league pitcher over a bunch of lottery tickets

Dempster completely done with baseball, vs. two players in AAA with decent shots to make the MLB team eventually and contribute... I'll take the something over the nothing.

 

[patg006]

Dempster completely done with baseball, vs. two players in AAA with decent shots to make the MLB team eventually and contribute... I'll take the something over the nothing.

Two players at AAA is nothing until they are performing at an average level at the major leagues.

IF that day comes, then it will be an improvement. Not before however.

 

[Jntg4]

Two players at AAA is nothing until they are performing at an average level at the major leagues.

IF that day comes, then it will be an improvement. Not before however.

The two also hold infinitely more value right now than Dempster does. They have the potential to play for the big league team and be productive, or the potential to be an injury replacement or the potential to hold value in a trade.

At the absolute worst it is a wash right now, and at the present day our end holds more value than Dempster.

 

[patg006]

The two also hold infinitely more value right now than Dempster does. They have the potential to play for the big league team and be productive, or the potential to be an injury replacement or the potential to hold value in a trade.

At the absolute worst it is a wash right now, and at the present day our end holds more value than Dempster.

IF potential becomes production, let me know and we can revisit this.

 

[chibears55]

Lmao. . Just when you thought his hatred couldn't get any worse. . This guy gonna say a retired player has more value to a team then prospects in AAA... why hasnt he joined his buddies Boyd and salami yet , since he inspires to be like them

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[patg006]

Not sure what is so hard to understand that a retired player has the same value as minor league players who never reach the majors.

You prefer to deal with if's.

I prefer to deal with reality.

 

[Jntg4]

Not sure what is so hard to understand that a retired player has the same value as minor league players who never reach the majors.

You prefer to deal with if's.

I prefer to deal with reality.

So at the the absolute worst it is a wash then... a chance for something in better than nothing with a no chance of becoming something.

 

[SilenceS]

Not sure what is so hard to understand that a retired player has the same value as minor league players who never reach the majors.

You prefer to deal with if's.

I prefer to deal with reality.

Who can you trade Dempster for? Who can you trade Villanueva or Hendricks for? They can at least get something. Also, Hendricks will most likely be up this year and Villanueva isnt far off either. The Cubs just probably wont have a place for him.

Garza wanted between 80 and 100 million from the Cubs. He got 50 million or something in that ball park. Olt is going to start. Ramirez will be up soon and you have a top of the rotation or electric closer potential in Edwards. I liked Garza, but the Cubs made the right deal for his demands.

I truly believe the Cubs want to extend Shark. I believe that why there asking price is so high. They either get what they want or Shark will be here for awhile is my opinion on it.

 

[chibears55]

Who can you trade Dempster for? Who can you trade Villanueva or Hendricks for? They can at least get something. Also, Hendricks will most likely be up this year and Villanueva isnt far off either. The Cubs just probably wont have a place for him.

Garza wanted between 80 and 100 million from the Cubs. He got 50 million or something in that ball park. Olt is going to start. Ramirez will be up soon and you have a top of the rotation or electric closer potential in Edwards. I liked Garza, but the Cubs made the right deal for his demands.

I truly believe the Cubs want to extend Shark. I believe that why there asking price is so high. They either get what they want or Shark will be here for awhile is my opinion on it.

Your trying to make sense to someone who don't give a rats ass because he has just one agenda on here and that to be like his buddies that got booted.

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[patg006]

Who can you trade Dempster for? Who can you trade Villanueva or Hendricks for?

More IF's.

WHEN Villanueva or Hendricks gets traded for something, then we can discuss what kinda of value there is.

Everyone loves to place the best case scenario if's but refuse to acknowledge that there are also if's where something good doesn't happen.

What if Edwards or Villanueva got traded for different prospects that never make the major leagues?

What then?

They still would have produced zero major league value, which is exactly the same as Dempster.

A $20 bill that sits in a desk and never gets used has the same value as a blank piece of notebook paper.

Olt is going to start. Ramirez will be up soon and you have a top of the rotation or electric closer potential in Edwards.

Luis Valbuena started last year also.

How great was his value to the team??

And I will worry about Ramirez and Edwards IF they make it to the majors.

But with Edwards, you have already stated that a #4/5 type starter has less value than an everyday player.