Cub's Prospect Watch And Development Discussion Thread

[CSF77]

For one I'm ok with a phased plan. Start by building up the farm and investing into infrastructure.

Then go into phase 2 which is investment into competition after phase 1 is in motion.

As long as it is phase 1. Then.....we'll not yet......nope.....

If it is a plan they are filling fine. If it is bull they are spilling to up profit it is another story.

I look at what they do. Right now they said they needed to focus on rebuilding the farm and it would be hard to find a better farm system. The roof tops gave in to 2 signs. Then they need to build them and start some construction vs delay it more to see what they can also get.

But I'm looking at it as are they making progress over all or is it a failed attempt. I would say yes there has been progress over all but it takes time for it to develop.

Whining about them to spend on FA's is pointless because they never said that is how they were planning to build the team.

 

[Meatball]

Why is expecting a team that dominates in revenue and from a big market to spend money considered whining?

And couldn't they both build a farm system and spend to compete at the same time?

 

[beckdawg]

I believe it had to do with ownership here. Ownership invested into the players and spent little on development or facilities.

The Ricketts is doing the opposite.

I'm not sure if there is enough resource to do both "well" vs both half assed.

I'm sure ownership did have some effect but like I said, that doesn't entirely excuse him from blame. Believe me I'd blame the Trib as well too and have mentioned previously their inability to figure out the rooftops as a potential revenue stream they should have owned vs letting other people make money off them was incredibly short sighted. All I'm saying is to say, "well he had no money" isn't really an excuse because numerous small market teams didn't have money and they performed better over that time frame. That's not an indictment of his entire career but that period of time was poorly done and that as much as anything was what left the cubs with a lengthy rebuild. If they had better talent in their high minors in 2011-2012 then this year the cubs would have that talent on the major league level and the team would be better.

That's all I'm getting at.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

Why is expecting a team that dominates in revenue and from a big market to spend money considered whining?

And couldn't they both build a farm system and spend to compete at the same time?

Spending money would not have built the farm system as fast. We may not have guys like Ramirez, Arrieta, Russell, Bryant, Almora, Schwarber etc...

And what is the point of "competing", plus what have we been doing? IT seems to me we tried to compete to fill in with free agents but our bullpen killed any chance of that. The point should be to be a WS contender for a decade. Spending money would have put the farm system behind and would have given us at best a .500 team.

 

[CSF77]

I am open minded. I like the look of the farm system right now and I'm hopeful the plan works.

I'm not calling the guy a failure or saying it won't work. I just refuse to praise without seeing results first.

Right now the team on the field we see every day is the worst I can remember since the 1970s.

It is a start. But remember the team on the field was to the most part a placeholder team.

Lake: place holder. Dude has no plate discipline and they have not demoted him to work on it. Not to mention stuck in a platoon... Ya place holder.

Olt? Sucking 101 again place holder.

Barney...again.

Schierholtz hitting .220 playing full time... Again.

Sweeney, Cog: terrible twins

Ruggiano, Valbuena and Bonifacio have put up value while healthy.

Pen for the most part has been serviceable.

Rotation was decent. Not sure now. I'll reserve my judgement til Aug after seeing some growing pains.

Anywho. What started this was Alcantara getting a mote. That is something at least.

 

[CSF77]

I'm sure ownership did have some effect but like I said, that doesn't entirely excuse him from blame. Believe me I'd blame the Trib as well too and have mentioned previously their inability to figure out the rooftops as a potential revenue stream they should have owned vs letting other people make money off them was incredibly short sighted. All I'm saying is to say, "well he had no money" isn't really an excuse because numerous small market teams didn't have money and they performed better over that time frame. That's not an indictment of his entire career but that period of time was poorly done and that as much as anything was what left the cubs with a lengthy rebuild. If they had better talent in their high minors in 2011-2012 then this year the cubs would have that talent on the major league level and the team would be better.

That's all I'm getting at.

They were looking to sell the trib and used the Cubs as a spring board.

They back loaded contract on purpose so they wound not have to pay the bill.

So the Ricketts bought a broken farm. Broken stadium. And a payroll that was back loaded by intention with a bunch of no trades.

Swear talk about a shitty deal. Surprised he took it.

 

[Parade_Rain]

I'm not concerned at all.

Keep jerking yourself to Theo, fanboy.

I thought we were discussing Lake and how he could be helped. Since Lake was a Hendry pick your posts keep getting more dumb by the minute.

 

[Meatball]

Spending money would not have built the farm system as fast. We may not have guys like Ramirez, Arrieta, Russell, Bryant, Almora, Schwarber etc...

And what is the point of "competing", plus what have we been doing? IT seems to me we tried to compete to fill in with free agents but our bullpen killed any chance of that. The point should be to be a WS contender for a decade. Spending money would have put the farm system behind and would have given us at best a .500 team.

How does spending money on the big league team and trying to win games stop you from drafting?

You wouldn't have the top picks but you still get to draft players and build your farm.

Other teams have seemed to be able to do both.

The point of competing is......kinda the point of having a team, no? Isn't the goal to win games? Isn't it Theo that said the goal every year is to win?

Spending money would not have put the farm system behind. That is completely untrue.

You can build at both levels at the same time.

 

[Meatball]

I thought we were discussing Lake and how he could be helped. Since Lake was a Hendry pick your posts keep getting more dumb by the minute.

That would make sense if all I was doing here was praising Hendry.

Show me where I've done that.

 

[Parade_Rain]

That would make sense if all I was doing here was praising Hendry.

Show me where I've done that.

Lame.

 

[Meatball]

Lame.

Good retort.

 

[Parade_Rain]

You've made it clear that you aren't interested in genuine discussion.

 

[dabynsky]

I don't believe Epstein drafted Lester.

Outside of that those picks came 10 years ago.......what the the later ones? Wouldn't what he's done closer to the present be more important?

Lester was drafted in 2002. Theo Epstein took over at the end of 2001 for the 2002 season. What's your point? The 2011 draft has tons of stud prospects in it if you want to play what you have done for me lately card including Mookie Betts and Jackie Bradley Jr. who both are in the big leagues and top 100 prospects like Henry Owens and Blake Swihart. Your point is that Theo Epstein 1st round draft picks are as bad as Jim Hendry's were, and however you want to slice it that isn't true. Epstein has had more impact guys out of the 1st round then Hendry did period the vast majority of time drafting later.

 

[dabynsky]

How does spending money on the big league team and trying to win games stop you from drafting?

You wouldn't have the top picks but you still get to draft players and build your farm.

Other teams have seemed to be able to do both.

The point of competing is......kinda the point of having a team, no? Isn't the goal to win games? Isn't it Theo that said the goal every year is to win?

Spending money would not have put the farm system behind. That is completely untrue.

You can build at both levels at the same time.

Give me one example of a team that has rebuilt a farm system and competed at the major league level under this CBA.

 

[chibears55]

How does spending money on the big league team and trying to win games stop you from drafting?

You wouldn't have the top picks but you still get to draft players and build your farm.

Other teams have seemed to be able to do both.

The point of competing is......kinda the point of having a team, no? Isn't the goal to win games? Isn't it Theo that said the goal every year is to win?

Spending money would not have put the farm system behind. That is completely untrue.

You can build at both levels at the same time.

seriously,, we are not going to go through all this again are we ?

you want answers go back a few months and re read posts of when you went through this before to stir the pot in this forum...

 

[Parade_Rain]

Give me one example of a team that has rebuilt a farm system and competed at the major league level under this CBA.

 

[Meatball]

You've made it clear that you aren't interested in genuine discussion.

You've made it clear you will ignore any valid point I make.

 

[Meatball]

Give me one example of a team that has rebuilt a farm system and competed at the major league level under this CBA.

Oh, I like how you reword things to try to make yourself correct.

What I said was.......you can spend and build on both levels at the same time.

Please explain how the CBA doesn't allow you to do this.

 

[Meatball]

seriously,, we are not going to go through all this again are we ?

you want answers go back a few months and re read posts of when you went through this before to stir the pot in this forum...

I've went back and read some old threads..........but that wasn't me in them.

 

[Meatball]

Your point is that Theo Epstein 1st round draft picks are as bad as Jim Hendry's were

I'm sorry but could you quote me where I said this because I don't recall.

Epstein has made some nice picks. A lot of from a decade ago.

What I said was......the same people ripping Hendry for his lack of first round "hits" are seemingly ignoring that just about all of Theo's first rounders lately haven't exactly panned out.

Yet we're all supposed to sit back and believe that wonder boy is going to turn the Cubs into a perennial contender because they are rebuilding the farm system.