Cub's Prospect Watch And Development Discussion Thread

[Meatball]

It is good to be open minded. All I have to say.

I am open minded. I like the look of the farm system right now and I'm hopeful the plan works.

I'm not calling the guy a failure or saying it won't work. I just refuse to praise without seeing results first.

Right now the team on the field we see every day is the worst I can remember since the 1970s.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Kinda. Lake won't take walks so it makes the pitchers job easier.

Think of it this way: if I know he will not take walks I can get away out of the zone the whole at bat. I do not need to even put a ball over the plate because he will swing regardless.

All Lake is doing is helping the pitcher out vs making himself a tough out.

Pitcher vs hitter is like a battle. That is the approach to have. If a pitcher is outside of the zone and the ump is not calling them for strikes then take the pitch. Force the pitcher to go over the plate.

Right now Lake is making it easy for pitchers

Manny and Lake aren't similar. Lake strikes himself out. Manny got pitched around a lot.

 

[Parade_Rain]

So was Sammy Sosa at one time.

Would you ask him to tutor young hitters on discipline?

Your comment specifically regarded Ramirez being a strike out hero. Thome is second on that all-time list you mentioned. He's a guaranteed HoFer. According to you, because he struck out a lot, he wouldn't have much positive advice to offer younger hitters. You certainly post as your moniker suggests.

 

[BearsWillWin]

Reggie Jackson was great.

I wouldn't want him anywhere near one of my young hitters.

Brett Favre is one of the greatest QBs ever.........wouldn't want him anywhere near my young QB.

Michael Jordan....best ever. Would I want him to coach a young basketball team? Hell no.

Great player isn't equal to good coach.

In fact.........if you look around........you might notice some of the better coaches in sports were players that were average at best and some were below that.

 

[Meatball]

Your comment specifically regarded Ramirez being a strike out hero. Thome is second on that all-time list you mentioned. He's a guaranteed HoFer. According to you, because he struck out a lot, he wouldn't have much positive advice to offer younger hitters. You certainly post as your moniker suggests.

I was scoffing at the comment that Junior Lake needs to be sent down and spend some time with Manny.........like that is going to be the fix for the young guys career.

It's idiotic.

 

[beckdawg]

I doubt he cares now a days. A lot of people think he will be a GM again. Also, I dont get your Vitters thing. He was considered the best upside bat in the draft. It was between him and Moustakas and the Royals took Moustakas. Just because he didnt pan doesnt mean at the time he wasnt the right pick.

Also, I highly doubt the Cubs draft Schwarber if Hoffman doesnt have TJS. Also, people need to calm down with Schwarber. What he is doing right now means nothing until he gets to actually same competition. Thats high A or better. KLAW talked about this the other day. His start means very little to scouts. He hasnt played good enough competition for it to mean anything to them.

I get you get excited about certain things, but some you need to let run its course. Most likely, 60 plus percent of out elite prospects will never truly make it. We also are going to have to trade some just to get some pitching. This isnt a knock to you or anything. Also, I am not knocking Schwarber at all. Its just being blown out of proportion. Its what happens when the ML team blows.

My point was simply the obvious choice isn't always the right choice. Even if you're talking about 2011 when McLeod said they weren't prepared to draft Baez in San Diego. So, clearly Baez wasn't the "obvious" choice. Maybe they were just "unlucky" that Vitters didn't develop better but suggesting they were unlucky for 9 years in the first round is a bit of a stretch. At some point you have to take some responsibility for being part of the issue. At the end of the day, Vitters wasn't a good pick and saying he was considered the best upside doesn't change that. If it were an isolated incident then you let it slide but like I've said, the best player he drafted in the 1st round from 2003-2010 was Cashner who really didn't reach his potential until he was on another team.

That's not bad fortune. It's evaluation of what's "good." And all the people suggesting Moustakas and Vitters were the right players were also making poor evaluations. That's not to say that thus far Theo and Co. have been infallible. We don't know yet. However, we've had more than enough time to draw conclusions on the picks from 2003-2010. That's also not to say that Hendry couldn't do better or that he hasn't in the past. But during that period he was bad and to suggest otherwise is being ignorant of the obvious.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Great player isn't equal to good coach.

Thanks, captain strawman.

 

[Parade_Rain]

I was scoffing at the comment that Junior Lake needs to be sent down and spend some time with Manny.........like that is going to be the fix for the young guys career.

It's idiotic.

So essentially Lake should just keep being a hammer because everything must be a nail. Got it. They shouldn't send him down to work on the mental side. He is doing just fine and no one of Manny's experience could have any advice which might help a struggling but talented player.

 

[Meatball]

For all the trash talking about Hendry's first round picks.......what about Epstein's when he was in Boston?

How are Nick Hagadone, Caleb Clay, Kris Johnson, Casey Kelly, and Reymond Fuentes doing?

 

[Meatball]

So essentially Lake should just keep being a hammer because everything must be a nail. Got it. They shouldn't send him down to work on the mental side. He is doing just fine and no one of Manny's experience could have any advice which might help a struggling but talented player.

By all means they should send him down to have him work on things. Where in anything I wrote did I say he was fine and didn't need work? Can you point it out?

But why does anyone believe Manny Ramirez of all people is going to be the one to fix him?

I'd rather a seasoned hitting coach that does it for a living work with him than a me first, publicity whore ex player do it.

I love this fanboy crap. The next time a young player from the farm hits a homerun everyone is gonna give Manny credit and beat off and praise the God that is Theo for hiring him.

It's a fucking joke.

 

[Parade_Rain]

None of these comments are "fanboy" comments. If I were you I would be more concerned about your own idiotic posts.

 

[SilenceS]

My point was simply the obvious choice isn't always the right choice. Even if you're talking about 2011 when McLeod said they weren't prepared to draft Baez in San Diego. So, clearly Baez wasn't the "obvious" choice. Maybe they were just "unlucky" that Vitters didn't develop better but suggesting they were unlucky for 9 years in the first round is a bit of a stretch. At some point you have to take some responsibility for being part of the issue. At the end of the day, Vitters wasn't a good pick and saying he was considered the best upside doesn't change that. If it were an isolated incident then you let it slide but like I've said, the best player he drafted in the 1st round from 2003-2010 was Cashner who really didn't reach his potential until he was on another team.

That's not bad fortune. It's evaluation of what's "good." And all the people suggesting Moustakas and Vitters were the right players were also making poor evaluations. That's not to say that thus far Theo and Co. have been infallible. We don't know yet. However, we've had more than enough time to draw conclusions on the picks from 2003-2010. That's also not to say that Hendry couldn't do better or that he hasn't in the past. But during that period he was bad and to suggest otherwise is being ignorant of the obvious.

You ever checked out Theos track record without McLeod? Im not saying Hendry was infallible, but your argument is straight up revisionist history at its finest. Its like saying that every evaluator failed because they didnt draft Pujols before the 8th round. Its revisionist history. You want to lay blame to one guy for a franchise in complete disarray. You fail to give him credit when the Cubs were a top farm in the early 2000's which Hendry had a lot to do with it. Yes, the Cubs first rounders sucked. They were also around 28th in spending on the draft over that time. The Red Sox were top 5. I guess Hendry just pocketed the money instead of putting it to the draft. I even showed an article awhile back about Hendry talking about he was handcuffed. Hendry did what the ownership told him to do. To still bring him up is unreal to me because he has nothing to do with this team anymore. I also find it funny that he left this team with no assets, but yet, a lot of the farm was built with the assets Hendry left. Players fail at over an 70 percent fail rate. All teams fail. All of them has cant miss prospects fail. One of our cant miss prospects or more will fail.

 

[dabynsky]

For all the trash talking about Hendry's first round picks.......what about Epstein's when he was in Boston?

How are Nick Hagadone, Caleb Clay, Kris Johnson, Casey Kelly, and Reymond Fuentes doing?

I'll get back to you but I think Jon Lester, Jacoby Ellsbury, Clay Buchholz and Jed Lowrie have done more than any Hendry first round draft pick.

 

[Meatball]

I'll get back to you but I think Jon Lester, Jacoby Ellsbury, Clay Buchholz and Jed Lowrie have done more than any Hendry first round draft pick.

I don't believe Epstein drafted Lester.

Outside of that those picks came 10 years ago.......what the the later ones? Wouldn't what he's done closer to the present be more important?

 

[Meatball]

None of these comments are "fanboy" comments. If I were you I would be more concerned about your own idiotic posts.

I'm not concerned at all.

Keep jerking yourself to Theo, fanboy.

 

[SilenceS]

Well, this is def. a familiar writing style

 

[beckdawg]

You ever checked out Theos track record without McLeod? Im not saying Hendry was infallible, but your argument is straight up revisionist history at its finest. Its like saying that every evaluator failed because they didnt draft Pujols before the 8th round. Its revisionist history. You want to lay blame to one guy for a franchise in complete disarray. You fail to give him credit when the Cubs were a top farm in the early 2000's which Hendry had a lot to do with it. Yes, the Cubs first rounders sucked. They were also around 28th in spending on the draft over that time. The Red Sox were top 5. I guess Hendry just pocketed the money instead of putting it to the draft. I even showed an article awhile back about Hendry talking about he was handcuffed. Hendry did what the ownership told him to do. To still bring him up is unreal to me because he has nothing to do with this team anymore. I also find it funny that he left this team with no assets, but yet, a lot of the farm was built with the assets Hendry left. Players fail at over an 70 percent fail rate. All teams fail. All of them has cant miss prospects fail. One of our cant miss prospects or more will fail.

As I said before, Hendry might be a good personnel guy but from 2003-2009 he was terrible in the draft. Period. There's no arguing that. The circumstances are honestly irrelevant. While yes you're more likely to pull high profile talent when you have more money to spend, that doesn't excuse you from drafting poorly with less money because good players come out of the 2nd and later rounds. Additionally, my problem isn't that some prospect failed because as you mention that happens. It's that nearly every player drafted during that time did and the few who didn't ended up on other teams(Donaldson for example). Had he netted a bunch of below average or average players and no stars I would have less of an issue with him because as you state spending might have been a huge issue. But, we're not even talking about that.

And keep and mind I acknowledge his 2011 draft as being good in the initial thing you jumped on. These seems a common issue between us because you view things I say as black or white when I'm often making gray statements. It's not Hendry is the worst every or he's the best ever. I specifically said I wish the 2003-2010 years were more like his 2011 drafting. Just like my comments on Castro being good but not "AMAZING" you seem to view that as some sort of slight toward Castro by me.

 

[CSF77]

Well, this is def. a familiar writing style

I was thinking the same "troll" thing.

 

[CSF77]

As I said before, Hendry might be a good personnel guy but from 2003-2009 he was terrible in the draft. Period. There's no arguing that. The circumstances are honestly irrelevant. While yes you're more likely to pull high profile talent when you have more money to spend, that doesn't excuse you from drafting poorly with less money because good players come out of the 2nd and later rounds.

I believe it had to do with ownership here. Ownership invested into the players and spent little on development or facilities.

The Ricketts is doing the opposite.

I'm not sure if there is enough resource to do both "well" vs both half assed.

 

[chibears55]

Well, this is def. a familiar writing style

Yep.. one of them resurrected themselves