Cubs tentatively trade Sean Marshall to Reds for Travis Wood + prospects (updated)

[Rice Cube]

No doubt about it. Marshall if great. And as long as Thorton doesn't close, I think he's the best setup man, coincidentally also the worst closer. :lol:

For Venters, love to see him repeat this year. If he does, I have no issues putting him on top of the hill

How many opportunities did he actually get to close out games?

"Setup" and "closing" are just innings-related terms that don't really take into account leverage. It kind of matters if you're facing Albert Pujols in the 8th versus the 9th inning. Maybe Thornton just got unlucky.

 

[brett05]

Too many is the fast answer..In April he had four chances I believe and blew them all.

Closing and setup while they may pitch the same amount of innings are two totally different mind sets. Pujols jacks one in the 8th, you can still win, he does it in the 9th and the game ends.

 

[Rice Cube]

Too many is the fast answer..In April he had four chances I believe and blew them all.

Closing and setup while they may pitch the same amount of innings are two totally different mind sets. Pujols jacks one in the 8th, you can still win, he does it in the 9th and the game ends.

Right, but facing Pujols in the 8th and keeping him in the park is almost as important as in the 9th.

The point was that if you've dispatched the heart of the order in the 8th and you have to face the scrubs in the 9th...which guy had the harder job, setup or closer?

 

[AddisonStation]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. What is bad about trading a guy at his highest value? If they got Wood and a couple prospects you'd have to be insane to not appreciate this deal. I love Marshall but this would be a smart move.

 

[Rice Cube]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. What is bad about trading a guy at his highest value? If they got Wood and a couple prospects you'd have to be insane to not appreciate this deal. I love Marshall but this would be a smart move.

Something tells me it's not a straight-up trade involving Marshall and Wood + prospects...the Reds would be way overpaying and I don't think they're among the stupid.

 

[Jntg4]

They have no room for Wood in their rotation and most of their prospects are blocked, plus we don't know how good the prospects are, they really aren't giving up anything that figures into their immediate future.

 

[Rice Cube]

They have no room for Wood in their rotation and most of their prospects are blocked, plus we don't know how good the prospects are, they really aren't giving up anything that figures into their immediate future.

That's because the core of their team is set for a couple years, so this is a pretty good opportunity to rob them blind. People are a bit down on Travis Wood, but the peripherals are pretty good and he's still young and cost-controlled. I'm sure we'll find out more about the other prospects if and when this trade gains steam.

 

[ZDemp34]

It sounds like it'll put us into rebuilding mode, so I'm all for it.

 

[AddisonStation]

It sounds like it'll put us into rebuilding mode, so I'm all for it.

Chances are we won't contend and he'd likely be traded anyway. Get a decent package after a good season and before he can get injured. I'm for it.

 

[Rice Cube]

Chances are we won't contend and he'd likely be traded anyway. Get a decent package after a good season and before he can get injured. I'm for it.

Let Dusty be the one to injure him then.

 

[WindyCity]

Marshall is a free agent and we need to cash in on him while we have the chance and if we can salary dump Byrd bonus.

 

[brett05]

Right, but facing Pujols in the 8th and keeping him in the park is almost as important as in the 9th.

The point was that if you've dispatched the heart of the order in the 8th and you have to face the scrubs in the 9th...which guy had the harder job, setup or closer?

In theory it's the 8th inning guy. In practice it's still the closer. The Closer has no "pick me up" when he makes a mistake.

 

[Jntg4]

In theory it's the 8th inning guy. In practice it's still the closer. The Closer has no "pick me up" when he makes a mistake.

8th inning, blow lead, bat again in 9th, hope for run.
9th inning, blow lead, bat again in bottom of inning if road team, hope for run, go to extras.

Not the same, but pretty damn similar.

 

[Rice Cube]

Cubs, Reds Discussing Possible Trade | FanGraphs Baseball

There's value to be had.

 

[brett05]

8th inning, blow lead, bat again in 9th, hope for run.
9th inning, blow lead, bat again in bottom of inning if road team, hope for run, go to extras.

If you are the home team, you hope for extras, if you are the 8th inning guy you know for a fact there is one more inning (ignoring rainout)

 

[Jntg4]

I still wish we'd give Ca$hner a chance to start again.

 

[Jntg4]

If you are the home team, you hope for extras, if you are the 8th inning guy you know for a fact there is one more inning (ignoring rainout)

And you still have to keep that lead, or you will either be tied or have a 90% chance of losing if you fall behind.

Yet you think it's fair to include Marshall's starting career but not a quarter-of-a-season of closing for Thornton in this scenario?

 

[Rice Cube]

If you are the home team, you hope for extras, if you are the 8th inning guy you know for a fact there is one more inning (ignoring rainout)

It's a nice thing to think about, but I'm guessing every pitcher, no matter what inning they pitch in, tries not to give up runs and gets pissed off or their confidence shot if they do give up the lead. That is intangible.

What is tangible is the pitcher's production. I think the new CBA killing the Elias rankings and therefore de-emphasizing "saves" except for the most archaic of general managers will allow managers and front offices to set their relief corps in such a way as to matchup based on leverage and not on what inning it is.

 

[Rice Cube]

I still wish we'd give Ca$hner a chance to start again.

I think they need to build him up to a multi-inning reliever first before they let him try, make sure his arm doesn't fall off. But I'd like them to make him a starter if it doesn't kill his arm.

 

[brett05]

And you still have to keep that lead, or you will either be tied or have a 90% chance of losing if you fall behind.

Yet you think it's fair to include Marshall's starting career but not a quarter-of-a-season of closing for Thornton in this scenario?

Nope, I don't. If you just include relief outings minus closing you see a much different side of things.