Cubs tentatively trade Sean Marshall to Reds for Travis Wood + prospects (updated)

[Rice Cube]

Nope, I don't. If you just include relief outings minus closing you see a much different side of things.

How many innings of closing are we talking about?

 

[Captain Obvious]

Nope, I don't. If you just include relief outings minus closing you see a much different side of things.

Do you have any stats to share with us then?

 

[brett05]

How many innings of closing are we talking about?

In April I think it was 4 innings with 4 ER

 

[Captain Obvious]

Ya, the only year where Thornton wasn't closer and Marshall was a reliever all season was 2010, when Marshall's ERA+ was better by 11 points...

So? You can't just go off what happened in 2010, unless you're trying to figure out who the better reliever was in 2010.

 

[Jntg4]

So? You can't just go off what happened in 2010, unless you're trying to figure out who the better reliever was in 2010.

Ya, I screwed up anyway, I got Marshall's 2010 and 2011 numbers screwed up in my head when I didn't want to look them up all over again.

But he won't count Thornton's 2011 because he was a closer for a month.

 

[brett05]

Is ERA+ the be all end all? Not being argumentative, just asking as some think it is

 

[Jntg4]

In April I think it was 4 innings with 4 ER

4 Innings, wow, that distorts season stats SO much!

 

[Rice Cube]

In April I think it was 4 innings with 4 ER

I honestly don't think you can tell anything definitive about a guy in just four innings.

Who were the opponents? Who batted against him? What were the play-by-plays?

 

[Jntg4]

Is ERA+ the be all end all? Not being argumentative, just asking as some think it is

It's better than you just claiming that 4 innings of closing are the reason why Thornton's ERA was more than a whole run higher than Marshall's.

 

[brett05]

Ya, I screwed up anyway, I got Marshall's 2010 and 2011 numbers screwed up in my head when I didn't want to look them up all over again.

But he won't count Thornton's 2011 because he was a closer for a month.

I count his 2011. Just remove the closing stats of April, his ERA+ goes way, up, though again, I want to know is that the be all end all stat?

 

[X]

all these pointless discussions are why we <3 baseball.

opcorn:

 

[Rice Cube]

Is ERA+ the be all end all? Not being argumentative, just asking as some think it is

Not really, it's just a standardized measure that is league/park/whatever-adjusted so every pitcher can be compared directly to each other in a given season. You have to look at many other statistics to evaluate a pitcher, not just ERA+. But if you want a quicky comparison, ERA+ works pretty well.

 

[Jntg4]

I count his 2011. Just remove the closing stats of April, his ERA+ goes way, up, though again, I want to know is that the be all end all stat?

Removing 4 runs in 4 innings doesn't make his ERA+ go up all that much actually, at least not to where Marshall was at. We are at a 45 point difference to start with, it won't make up all of that.

 

[brett05]

It's better than you just claiming that 4 innings of closing are the reason why Thornton's ERA was more than a whole run higher than Marshall's.

You take out just those 4 and Matt's era drops to 2.98 Over a 1/3 of a run difference. He plays in the AL, it makes a difference in era as well, no?

 

[The Bandit]

this is the dumbest argument ever. How can you not use when he was a closer. If your gonna take that out yeah his numbers are going to go up but there also going to go up because now there is less of a sample size used while Marshall's is larger.

 

[brett05]

Matt's ERA+ goes to a 138, still off from Marshall for last year. Again, is ERA+ the only stat that matters?

 

[brett05]

this is the dumbest argument ever. How can you not use when he was a closer. If your gonna take that out yeah his numbers are going to go up but there also going to go up because now there is less of a sample size used while Marshall's is larger.

So use career numbers.

 

[The Bandit]

Matt's ERA+ goes to a 138, still off from Marshall for last year. Again, is ERA+ the only stat that matters?

If you would like to go find some other stats that matter, be my guest. He gave you a stat that showed his argument, your turn.

 

[Jntg4]

You take out just those 4 and Matt's era drops to 2.98 Over a 1/3 of a run difference. He plays in the AL, it makes a difference in era as well, no?

If it goes down a 1/3 of a run, he is still short in ERA+, but not as far off.

 

[brett05]

Not really, it's just a standardized measure that is league/park/whatever-adjusted so every pitcher can be compared directly to each other in a given season. You have to look at many other statistics to evaluate a pitcher, not just ERA+. But if you want a quicky comparison, ERA+ works pretty well.

Maybe compared to your league it does. Too many other factors to consider really that would determine things at least imo and I think many GM's opinion.