Cubs trade Rumors Thread

[The Bandit]

Bullshit.

Only idiots continue to blame the previous administration.

There has been more than enough time to have the major league team improve. It hasn't happened.

Anything else is just making excuses.*



That is called doing BOTH. Something the Cubs are not doing. Thanks for proving my point.*





Never have said that the farm system doesn't need to be built up.

Please stick to the facts and not making up stuff when you have nothing intelligent to say.

I have said the Cubs need to improve the major league roster while building up the farm system.*



When most of this 'tradable' talent gets traded for 50 cents on the dollar, no that doesn't improve the ball club.

Every trade the Cubs will likely make between now and the deadline will be major league players for minor league lottery tickets.

One step forward and three steps back.*



Yeah. History and reality have shown that successful results generally take at least a decade or longer.*



* = 100% baseball related content

1. the farm isn't gonna be built up when you sign big FA and trade specs away.
2. We went into a rebuild mode, it's been 2 seasons, and you yourself say that they never happen that quickly.. so not sure where you're going with that.
3.Yeah, the Cubs will be building the farm by selling off the low risk signings they made over the offseason... ya know, what you do during a rebuild. Hello?
4. The Cards did everything by starting with the farm.. something the Cubs aren't prepared for yet. Nice try though.

 

[KBIB]

Only you are completely missing one minor detail.

No, I am not. This team is doing an entire rebuild from the ground up. This fantasy of trying to be competitive on a ML level during a complete reboot is preposterous and borderline lunacy. This team is starting over. If you can take into consideration the thought of building thru the draft and trading away players who will not matter in the big picture then there is light at the end of the tunnel sooner rather then later.

Shark isn't gonna be anything. Neither is Garza, get them out and bring in young players whom Theo can pencil in as core players going further, neither of those pitchers are or should be considered core pieces. Prospect depth is the main thing being accumulated, and rightly so.

If those names being tossed around have a hint of truth, Theo should take them and run.


CHAMPS!!!

 

[KBisBack!]

1. the farm isn't gonna be built up when you sign big FA and trade specs away.

Sure it can be.

The Cardinals went from a bottom five farm system to a top 5 farm system in just a couple seasons will resigning Matt Holiday and signing big FA's like Carlos Beltran.

Oh yeah, they also won a World Series and went to a NLCS during that time also, not throwing away seasons.

The Rangers built up their farm system while signing Adrian Beltre and Yu Darvish.

Do everyone a favor and pay attention to reality and what other teams are accomplishing rather than believing in PR campaigns and fairy tales.*

2. We went into a rebuild mode, it's been 2 seasons, and you yourself say that they never happen that quickly.. so not sure where you're going with that.

I've said it doesn't happen quickly when you place all your eggs in building the farm system and ignoring free agency. Pay attention.*

3.Yeah, the Cubs will be building the farm by selling off the low risk signings they made over the offseason... ya know, what you do during a rebuild. Hello?

Outside of Garza, who exactly do you think will be traded that will bring back legitimate pieces to build the franchise with??

Hello??

Everyone else will bring back mid level, not likely to be even top 100 prospects that probably will have a less than 10% chance of becoming even average major league players.

So exactly how is trading major league players for minor league filler improving the organization??*




* = 100% baseball related content

 

[Parade_Rain]

Bullshit.

Only idiots continue to blame the previous administration.

Let us know when the Soriano deal makes sense. Just one of many items that have handcuffed the Cubs from makin certain moves.

There has been more than enough time to have the major league team improve. It hasn't happened.

Anything else is just making excuses.*

Nonsense. That has happened. They got rid of Zambrano. That's immediate improvement.

That is called doing BOTH. Something the Cubs are not doing. Thanks for proving my point.*

DeJesus and Schierholz are just two off the top of my head. Not only did they sign them, they signed them smartly that they will be getting a return. You disproved your point.

Never have said that the farm system doesn't need to be built up.

I thought you said the previous administration couldn't be blamed? Why does it need to be built up then?

Please stick to the facts and not making up stuff when you have nothing intelligent to say.

Ah, yes. Personal attacks. You disagree therefore the other poster has nothing intelligent to say. You're so precious.

I have said the Cubs need to improve the major league roster while building up the farm system.

Wow. Thanks, Captain Obvious. That could be said for almost every team that doesn't make the WS.

As to the Yankees, the still have resources to rebuild the major league roster. It is called cash.

LOL. They are having conversations with Ian Stewart about joining their farm system.

Like I have said before, the Yankees will make the playoffs long before and multiple times before the Cubs do*

That could happen. The AL East may not be as strong of a division right now as the NL Central.

When most of this 'tradable' talent gets traded for 50 cents on the dollar, no that doesn't improve the ball club.

Every trade the Cubs will likely make between now and the deadline will be major league players for minor league lottery tickets.

One step forward and three steps back.*

Only in the minds of people who live in the here and now.

 

[KBisBack!]

If you can take into consideration the thought of building thru the draft and trading away players who will not matter in the big picture then there is light at the end of the tunnel sooner rather then later.

If you take into consideration reality and facts rather than fairy tales and PR campaigns, the big picture shows you that it takes at least a decade to become competitive doing what the Cubs are doing.

That is not sooner rather than later.*



* = reality is greater than fairy tales.




SHIRLEY TEMPLE

 

[The Bandit]

If you take into consideration reality and facts rather than fairy tales and PR campaigns, the big picture shows you that it takes at least a decade to become competitive doing what the Cubs are doing.

That is not sooner rather than later.*


* = reality is greater than fairy tales.

In 8 years you can cheer about being right then, in the meantime you're the one living in fairy tales.

 

[KBisBack!]

Let us know when the Soriano deal makes sense. Just one of many items that have handcuffed the Cubs from makin certain moves.

Bullshit.

Only if you believe the PR campaigns and fairy tales.

So Soriano's contract is handcuffing the team but the roughly $40M cut from payroll isn't??*

Nonsense. That has happened. They got rid of Zambrano. That's immediate improvement.

100% wrong. Chris Volstad was one of the worst pitchers in the majors last year.

That trade unquestionably made the team worse.*

DeJesus and Schierholz are just two off the top of my head. Not only did they sign them, they signed them smartly that they will be getting a return. You disproved your point.

No I didn't. Because they will be getting very little of actual value in return.

The fairy tale believers and prospect :fap:ers will get off on the trades, but in reality it will be major league players exchanged for minor league filler.*

I thought you said the previous administration couldn't be blamed? Why does it need to be built up then?

The farm system can always be built up.*

Ah, yes. Personal attacks. You disagree therefore the other poster has nothing intelligent to say. You're so precious.

No personal attacks. Just asking that you stick to reality and not make up lies.*

LOL. They are having conversations with Ian Stewart about joining their farm system.

The farm system. And the Cubs traded two usable major league players for Stewart and abandoned the 3B position for two years because of it.*

That could happen. The AL East may not be as strong of a division right now as the NL Central.

What planet are you watching baseball on?? Do you even have a clue what you are talking about??

The AL East has every team at .500 or better.

Just the presence of the Cubs makes the NL Central a significantly worse division.

The AL East worse than the NL Central???? LOL!!!!! Wow.*

Only in the minds of people who live in the here and now.

Nope.

Only the minds of people who pay attention to reality and not fairy tales and PR campaigns.*



* = 100% baseball related content

 

[KBisBack!]

In 8 years you can cheer about being right then, in the meantime you're the one living in fairy tales.

Wrong.

I am the one living in reality and backed it up countless times with actual facts.

You are the one believing that something that has never happened is a guarantee to happen.*




* = 100% baseball related content

 

[The Bandit]

Wrong.

I am the one living in reality and backed it up countless times with actual facts.

You are the one believing that something that has never happened is a guarantee to happen.*




* = 100% baseball related content

Never once said it was a guarantee. Same with everything else, you throw me in the group for some reason then call names and whine. All I've really said is the Cubs are rebuilding, the right way, they will start to turn the corner from just getting specs sometime in the next 2 years now. Garza should be resigned, We got good trades out of Marshall, Maholm, Dumpster, and Cash. But I'm sure your response will be whine whine whine excuses excuses excuses Vick you don't know anything.

 

[patg006]

Let us know when the Soriano deal makes sense. Just one of many items that have handcuffed the Cubs from makin certain moves.

What? Cubs paid big bucks for the best player of free agency in order to push them over the edge with an already solid 3-4 hitters. Soriano hasnt been the greatest thing since sliced bread, no. But to insinuate he's 'handcuffing' the cubs financially is preposterous....

Nonsense. That has happened. They got rid of Zambrano. That's immediate improvement.

Zambrano is a bum, and has been for a while. Nobody is disputing that. But if you think "immediate improvement" is paying 18 million for Chris Volstad instead of Carlos Zambrano, well......to avoid Dab's deletion of my post--I'll say it is a very incorrect baseball statement.

DeJesus and Schierholz are just two off the top of my head. Not only did they sign them, they signed them smartly that they will be getting a return. You disproved your point.

Neither DeJesus nor Scheirholtz will be on the cubs next year at this rate......so no, he didnt disprove his point.

I thought you said the previous administration couldn't be blamed? Why does it need to be built up then?

It's easy to blame Hendry for the state of the cubs when Epstein took over. But the key pieces of the team right now, sans Rizzo and Nate. Who's responsible for them? On the long list of trade chips that might net something back, Hendry was responsible. Of the best starting pitchers and best bullpen guy, Hendry is responsible.

His regime had ups and downs, and Theo :fap: parties like to remember the end, but nobody wants to remember Francisco Beltran and Bobby Hill for Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton, Hee Seop Choi for Derrek Lee, Ryan Flaherty and Sean Gallagher for Rich Harden. Saint Mark DeRosa (where's his statue?) Since Dallas Green, Hendry took this team as close as it could get to a championship.

LOL. They are having conversations with Ian Stewart about joining their farm system.

And yet, are still hanging around the playoff race.

That could happen. The AL East may not be as strong of a division right now as the NL Central.

It'll be interesting to see if the Pirates can retain all of this talent......

Only in the minds of people who live in the here and now.

I'm with Boo. If this team truly is going to scrap this and go full rebuild, scrap it all. As much as we can bitch, we aren't going to see it go our way, but that doesn't mean I'm going to :fap: to minor leaguers. I'll suffer through the turd sandwich Ricketts and Theo try to sell me as filet mignon.

A good sign will be to sign Kris Bryant.......I'm good with this, now. Tomorrow, this week. Before a week from Friday, is the deadline?

A better sign will be sustaining wins consistently.

 

[CSF77]

I'm with Boo. If this team truly is going to scrap this and go full rebuild, scrap it all. As much as we can bitch, we aren't going to see it go our way, but that doesn't mean I'm going to to minor leaguers. I'll suffer through the turd sandwich Ricketts and Theo try to sell me as filet mignon.

A good sign will be to sign Kris Bryant.......I'm good with this, now. Tomorrow, this week. Before a week from Friday, is the deadline?

A better sign will be sustaining wins consistently.

100% agreement.

they need more talent.

They are proving that they are not willing to pay top dollar for it.

So that means it has to come via the draft/trade or international.

The key is to have the talent converge (IE have abundance) at the same time where they can sort through it.

Note talent doesn't mean it will pan out. That is why you flood the system and have it hit the team with in a 2-3 year time period.


Who knows if the master plan works. Sadly waiting for the Rickets to spend 145 mil per is a waste of time.

 

[KBisBack!]

We got good trades out of Marshall, Maholm, Dumpster, and Cash.

100% Wrong.

So far the return on Marshall has been good and far better than I could have dreamed of.

The return for Maholm has been zero pitches thrown for the Cubs organization. Exactly how is that a good return??

The return for Dempster is two lottery tickets who are long shots to make an impact at the major league level. Exactly how is that a good return??

The return for Cashner has been an average at best major league 1B while Cashner is blossoming into an above average major league starter. Exactly how is that a good return? At best it is a break even, and that is being fairly generous.*




* = reality greater than fantasy

 

[patg006]

100% Wrong.

So far the return on Marshall has been good and far better than I could have dreamed of.

The return for Maholm has been zero pitches thrown for the Cubs organization. Exactly how is that a good return??

The return for Dempster is two lottery tickets who are long shots to make an impact at the major league level. Exactly how is that a good return??

The return for Cashner has been an average at best major league 1B while Cashner is blossoming into an above average major league starter. Exactly how is that a good return? At best it is a break even, and that is being fairly generous.*




* = reality greater than fantasy

Pretty much, but I'll give Cashner a slight nod over Rizzo.

Cashner gets hurt, and has had a few shitty games. Rizzo has games where he's looked like the savior of mankind; he'll put together a nice string of games. Then comes the 0-18 slump with 2 walks. That frustrates me most about him. Good game today, look for a good day tomorrow, then the 0 fer with 2 walks till about Thursday.

Anyone who thinks Vizcaino is the better of the trade is wrong. Dude hasn't thrown a pitch anywhere, and does not look like he will this year. He may hurt himself so many times like ex Card castaway now shipped to AAA Eduardo Sanchez, he gets cut soon. I dont think Hemorrhoidys Vizcaino will see the major leagues.

Dempster return is TBD. Hendricks doesnt look like a total goof. Villanueva is struggling to hit. .250 in AA, isnt something I'm looking forward to if we're talking MLB potential. Makes me really want Kris Bryant more.

Travis Wood has been a delight and a keeper. Sappelt has blown. Torreyes doesnt look like anything special...

 

[CSF77]

Pretty much, but I'll give Cashner a slight nod over Rizzo.

Cashner gets hurt, and has had a few shitty games. Rizzo has games where he's looked like the savior of mankind; he'll put together a nice string of games. Then comes the 0-18 slump with 2 walks. That frustrates me most about him. Good game today, look for a good day tomorrow, then the 0 fer with 2 walks till about Thursday.

We can't judge it until both have had more weathering.

Last year I would give the edge to Rizzo. This year Cashner. Next year... and so on. Both are still young developing players. We wont get a true vibe on them until they hit their prime years.

Unless one bottoms out and hits AAA or hits the DL extended anything can happen. Shoot look as Castro 2 years ago he has a 200 hit season this year hitting .235. Never know what they will become until they hit their prime years. Shark...we though he was a bust 3 years ago.....now.

 

[CSF77]

Anyone who thinks Vizcaino is the better of the trade is wrong. Dude hasn't thrown a pitch anywhere, and does not look like he will this year. He may hurt himself so many times like ex Card castaway now shipped to AAA Eduardo Sanchez, he gets cut soon. I dont think Hemorrhoidys Vizcaino will see the major leagues.

Wouldn't have minded having a project but not at the cost of a #3 starter.

 

[CSF77]

But one thing I do like about Rizzo. Even with this year having some ups and downs he is on pace to get 100 RBI's. Regardless of every thing else that is what we should expect out of a 3-5 hitter. Run production.

 

[Boobaby1]

Garza unfortunately is looking like he will be gone more and more each day, Shark will only be traded for a very large amount. Theo isn't gonna deal the future or well current ace of the staff with 2 years of control for equal value, he'll get a ton or he'll hold on to him until the time comes to either sign him long term or ship him out at the deadline next year or the year after.

Shark's value is at its peak now with two years left. He is going to net the most value of any Cub and the one that can stock AAA or AA with good arms. Holding onto him does little unless he is extended. His value will decline as his arb years go on, and the Cubs could end up getting little if they hold onto him. Trade or extend are the only options, and trading is the only option that helps the farm.

 

[CSF77]

Shark's value is at its peak now with two years left. He is going to net the most value of any Cub and the one that can stock AAA or AA with good arms. Holding onto him does little unless he is extended. His value will decline as his arb years go on, and the Cubs could end up getting little if they hold onto him. Trade or extend are the only options, and trading is the only option that helps the farm.

Yep. It would be better to do this in the off season if he turns down an extension. (2 years would put Baez at AAA at this pace) Unless some team offers 2 top 100 prospects plus a filler starter for 2014.

 

[Boobaby1]

Yep. It would be better to do this in the off season if he turns down an extension. (2 years would put Baez at AAA at this pace) Unless some team offers 2 top 100 prospects plus a filler starter for 2014.

I think that IF they traded him now, his 1st year arb was so cheap (2.65 mil) that it could net more on the prospect front seeing as another team would only be paying roughly a little over 1 million for his services this year.

It would give him 2-1/2 years with another team like Baltimore or Arizona for example to not only play on a pennant race team, but get an extension from them.

He would come at a huge price for sure, but he could be someone elses potential top end starter or ACE for a long time. That in itself could very well sway someone to overpay for his services, and that's what the Cubs need right now. Shark having a win/loss record of 10-11 for a crappy team does absolutely nothing.

 

[SilenceS]

I think that IF they traded him now, his 1st year arb was so cheap (2.65 mil) that it could net more on the prospect front seeing as another team would only be paying roughly a little over 1 million for his services this year.

It would give him 2-1/2 years with another team like Baltimore or Arizona for example to not only play on a pennant race team, but get an extension from them.

He would come at a huge price for sure, but he could be someone elses potential top end starter or ACE for a long time. That in itself could very well sway someone to overpay for his services, and that's what the Cubs need right now. Shark having a win/loss record of 10-11 for a crappy team does absolutely nothing.

It would have to be a huge haul to trade Shark. But, if you do trade Shark it probably puts this franchise back another 2 or so year so pick your poison. Garza I believe wants out because he is tired of losing. I have no information saying that just more of a gut feeling.