Cubs Winter Meetings Thread

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If your team as currently constructed has a subpar-to-barely-average rotation and can't score for crap, why are you bothering to invest too heavily in the bullpen?

When Lane Kiffin took over at USC and had several scholarship limitations due to sanctions, the first 3 players he went out and gave scholarships to were the best place kicker in the country, the best punter in the country, and the best long-snapper in the country. His thought was that, if you absolutely know you're not going to have the guns to go toe-to-toe with the best in the nation on offense AND defense, shore up a part of the team that is plausible to shore up w/ the least amount of scholarships, and at least a unit that has the potential to keep you in games.

similar philosophy. We're not going to get big name pitchers or fielders w/out throwing the freakin' farm at them...so having one of the best bullpen's in the league would be advantageous, as well as give us several trade pieces at the deadline. Everyone wants good bullpen arms.

 

[Rice Cube]

I can appreciate that philosophy. Spending too much on a bullpen that won't have many leads to protect doesn't make sense though, especially not when you consider how little the smarter GMs will value relief pitching these days, not to mention the volatility in year-to-year reliever production that just about every GM nowadays knows about. In my opinion it's not worth it to spend that much on a bullpen in order to get one-run losses instead of 5+ run losses. The bullpen is probably the last thing this team needs to fix. It's still important in the big picture sense, but it's not the most important piece of the puzzle. And if an old guy like Grilli wants a third year on a reliever contract, it's definitely not worth it. It's one of the various reasons I was appalled at the Carlos Marmol extension, even though Marmol was a lot younger. Unless you get really lucky, most relievers simply aren't consistent enough to justify stupid money like that, and the Cubs at the time of extension were teetering close to rebuild mode which is the last possible time you spend gobs of money to retain a closer who has few games to close.

 

[X]

I can appreciate that philosophy. Spending too much on a bullpen that won't have many leads to protect doesn't make sense though, especially not when you consider how little the smarter GMs will value relief pitching these days, not to mention the volatility in year-to-year reliever production that just about every GM nowadays knows about. In my opinion it's not worth it to spend that much on a bullpen in order to get one-run losses instead of 5+ run losses. The bullpen is probably the last thing this team needs to fix. It's still important in the big picture sense, but it's not the most important piece of the puzzle. And if an old guy like Grilli wants a third year on a reliever contract, it's definitely not worth it. It's one of the various reasons I was appalled at the Carlos Marmol extension, even though Marmol was a lot younger. Unless you get really lucky, most relievers simply aren't consistent enough to justify stupid money like that, and the Cubs at the time of extension were teetering close to rebuild mode which is the last possible time you spend gobs of money to retain a closer who has few games to close.

fair enough. I guess my point is that, if you think having a better bullpen would change 5+ run losses into 1 run losses, wouldn't it be fair to expect that the Cubs would win a handful more games with a better bullpen? And when we're talking about a 3rd year for a 36 year old reliever, we're talking potential buy-out options of what? $750k? :shrug:

Again, differences in philosophies. nothin' wrong w/ that. ha.

 

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Pirates not willing to go 3 years on Grilli. Down to Cubs, Pirates, BlueJays on 2 yr deals. Giants are out.

 

[Rice Cube]

Considering the amount of awesome in Canada right now (at least on paper) I think if he leaves Pittsburgh he should go to Toronto. Best chance at contention.

 

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Considering the amount of awesome in Canada right now (at least on paper) I think if he leaves Pittsburgh he should go to Toronto. Best chance at contention.

Is it, though? Those guys didn't win together in Miami, and they didn't have to contend with the Yanks/Rays.

Given that this very well could be his last contract though, there's no reason to "play it safe" and stick w/ an NL team or anything.

 

[Rice Cube]

Is it, though? Those guys didn't win together in Miami, and they didn't have to contend with the Yanks/Rays.

Given that this very well could be his last contract though, there's no reason to "play it safe" and stick w/ an NL team or anything.

I'm going to assume that being in Toronto is going to give Grilli a better shot of A- contending over the Pirates or Cubs and B- not getting randomly traded midseason :lol:

 

[X]

I'm going to assume that being in Toronto is going to give Grilli a better shot of A- contending over the Pirates or Cubs and B- not getting randomly traded midseason :lol:

Pirates finished w/ a better record and closer to the playoffs than Toronto did last year. :shrug:

I think it's been so long since Pitt's been to the playoffs, they're automatically discounted. :lol: They're a pretty ok team.

 

[Rice Cube]

Pirates finished w/ a better record and closer to the playoffs than Toronto did last year. :shrug:

I think it's been so long since Pitt's been to the playoffs, they're automatically discounted. :lol: They're a pretty ok team.

They'd be better if they were allowed to spend money on someone other than Andrew McCutchen.

 

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They'd be better if they were allowed to spend money on someone other than Andrew McCutchen.

Agreed. questionable spending limits. "We wanna be good enough for ppl to keep showing up, but we're not gonna crack the top 10 in spending for a shot at the playoffs..."

They were 26th in payroll last season.

 

[Rice Cube]

You also take into account how terrible the NL Central was versus the AL East, and also the fact that just about everyone on Toronto's roster was DL'd at some point, including Brandon Morrow and Jose Bautista, and it's no wonder they sucked so hard. If everyone's healthy and supplemented by Josh Johnson, Buehrle and a Jose Reyes who remembers he's supposed to be good at baseball, anything can happen. If I were Grilli I either stay in Pittsburgh so I don't incur moving expenses or I go to Toronto. I sure as hell don't go to the Cubs even with a two-year deal because the Cubs are liable to trade me whenever the hell they want.

 

[X]

You also take into account how terrible the NL Central was versus the AL East, and also the fact that just about everyone on Toronto's roster was DL'd at some point, including Brandon Morrow and Jose Bautista, and it's no wonder they sucked so hard. If everyone's healthy and supplemented by Josh Johnson, Buehrle and a Jose Reyes who remembers he's supposed to be good at baseball, anything can happen. If I were Grilli I either stay in Pittsburgh so I don't incur moving expenses or I go to Toronto. I sure as hell don't go to the Cubs even with a two-year deal because the Cubs are liable to trade me whenever the hell they want.

agreed