D-man Leddy signed

[IMuser]

[quote name="5Minutes4Fighting"] ....If you then force out Campbell (more specifically that contract) that would be a 6 mill cap hit savings.....[/quote]



I still think the Campbell signing was a great one and worth it at the time. Campbell's skill helped grow this team and led to achieving the point of the competition.



Teams create cap space so they can acquire players like Campbell, not so that they can have cap space for the sake of having cap space.

 

[Shoots_he_scores]

[quote name="whalerhawk"]

I have heard this stated in about 3-4 different places and not once does anyone back up the statement with a reason why. What is the coaching staff specifically not doing to develop their players?



Leddy was on the top defensive pairing at UM and I assume was getting a ton of ice time when he wasn't out with a broken jaw, so what specifically would have limited his development on that team?[/quote]



I couldn't tell you specifically what they are or aren't doing because I dont see there practices but I can tell you that over the last 3 years a number of players have chosen to leave the program. Kyle Okposo left in the middle of a season because the Islanders wanted him out of there. Patrick White a first round draft pick by Vancouver who was traded to San Jose has made no progress, just ask canuckle. Last year Sam Lofquist left mid season to go to the OHL. Fourth straight year someone from their team left mid season in order to develop somewhere else.



Lucia has a tendency to listen to boosters and alumni I think. I also think he was a little obsessed with getting the best for his kid that played for him which I can understand but he's got to remember he has 25 other kids futures to worry about too. Why else would he just decide at the start of last year that after the team voted for their captains that because his son was left off to just say screw the team my kids a captain and gave him a "C" too. Hockey teams dont work like that.

 

[whalerhawk]

Word on the street is that Leddy's contract doesn't contain any "A" or "B" bonus clauses at all, which is a first for someone receiving an entry level contract. I guess the Hawks getting burned by Toews and Kane achieving bonuses that hit against the cap led them to structure the deal in this fashion. I'm not sure if this is prohibited by the CBA (or frowned upon by the NHLPA). This could get interesting.

 

[whalerhawk]

[quote name="Shoots_he_scores"]



I couldn't tell you specifically what they are or aren't doing because I dont see there practices but I can tell you that over the last 3 years a number of players have chosen to leave the program. Kyle Okposo left in the middle of a season because the Islanders wanted him out of there. Patrick White a first round draft pick by Vancouver who was traded to San Jose has made no progress, just ask canuckle. Last year Sam Lofquist left mid season to go to the OHL. Fourth straight year someone from their team left mid season in order to develop somewhere else.



Lucia has a tendency to listen to boosters and alumni I think. I also think he was a little obsessed with getting the best for his kid that played for him which I can understand but he's got to remember he has 25 other kids futures to worry about too. Why else would he just decide at the start of last year that after the team voted for their captains that because his son was left off to just say screw the team my kids a captain and gave him a "C" too. Hockey teams dont work like that.[/quote]

Sounds a little like sour grapes to me. I'm not getting the ice time I want and therefore I'm going to take my ball and go home? You could be right, but it seems like most of the guys complaining are the ones not getting the ice time. Why am I not surprised by that?



I would imagine that any NHL team would want their prospects out of college and into their own control regardless of which institution they were attending. What's better than watching a player's progress first hand and dictating that direction vs. watching passively?

 

[Shoots_he_scores]

[quote name="whalerhawk"]

Sounds a little like sour grapes to me. I'm not getting the ice time I want and therefore I'm going to take my ball and go home? You could be right, but it seems like most of the guys complaining are the ones not getting the ice time. Why am I not surprised by that?



I would imagine that any NHL team would want their prospects out of college and into their own control regardless of which institution they were attending. What's better than watching a player's progress first hand and dictating that direction vs. watching passively?[/quote]



Thing is that Leddy got reasonable ice time last year, especially for a freshman in that conference. A guy on the Fighting Sioux board I read had a great point, all these kids who play from the gophers are Minnesota born and raised. Hockey players in that state dream of playing college hockey for the gophers and doing so is just as big of a thrill as making it to the NHL. So for there to be such a large number of players abandoning their dream like this means there has got to be something the coach is doing that the players dont like

 

[canucklehead]

[quote name="whalerhawk"]

Sounds a little like sour grapes to me. I'm not getting the ice time I want and therefore I'm going to take my ball and go home? You could be right, but it seems like most of the guys complaining are the ones not getting the ice time. Why am I not surprised by that?



I would imagine that any NHL team would want their prospects out of college and into their own control regardless of which institution they were attending. What's better than watching a player's progress first hand and dictating that direction vs. watching passively?[/quote]

Schroeder was on the top line and chose to leave. I know the Canucks tried to insist that he go to the WHL, after the lack of development White went through on the gophers, but his dad insisted and they backed off. Schroeder realized the error mid-season but decided to stay until the end of the season, but took off before the zamboni finished cleaning the ice. There is much documented about the downfall of the minnesota program, a quick google search will enlighten you about it.

 

[Central PA Hawk Fan]

[quote name="IMuser"]



I still think the Campbell signing was a great one and worth it at the time. Campbell's skill helped grow this team and led to achieving the point of the competition.



Teams create cap space so they can acquire players like Campbell, not so that they can have cap space for the sake of having cap space.[/quote]

This, let me know when Cap Space can suit up and put up points.

 

[whalerhawk]

[quote name="canucklehead"]

Schroeder was on the top line and chose to leave. I know the Canucks tried to insist that he go to the WHL, after the lack of development White went through on the gophers, but his dad insisted and they backed off. Schroeder realized the error mid-season but decided to stay until the end of the season, but took off before the zamboni finished cleaning the ice. There is much documented about the downfall of the minnesota program, a quick google search will enlighten you about it.[/quote]

If this is such common knowledge, then why doesn't the coach get canned? What is the University waiting for?



Also, if you are on the top line and you are getting significant ice time, what more can the university to do encourage your development? From the quotes in this thread, it sounds like the coaches make the kids go to class. Isn't that as it should be? If they didn't want an education, or at least not as rigorous a one as they will get in college, they should go play Canadian Major Junior hockey.

 

[canucklehead]

[quote name="whalerhawk"]

If this is such common knowledge, then why doesn't the coach get canned? What is the University waiting for?



Also, if you are on the top line and you are getting significant ice time, what more can the university to do encourage your development? From the quotes in this thread, it sounds like the coaches make the kids go to class. Isn't that as it should be? If they didn't want an education, or at least not as rigorous a one as they will get in college, they should go play Canadian Major Junior hockey.[/quote]

The coach does not get fired because he is in tight with the boosters, who have significant pull with the program. and it's not the coach forcing the kids to class that is the issue of development, it's the lack of actual coaching. he doesn't match players based on situations or ability, but instead based on who the boosters want to see the most. This has led to a program of no consequences for slacking, failure to put in effort while training, and an entire culture of lackadaisical play/practice. He doesn't get anything out of the kids because no matter what they do they are locked into their position and ice time (which is mainly based on off ice politics between the families of the children and the boosters, not the kid's actual potential/skill. There is no need to work hard, because either you are a sure lock for top ice time (like schroeder, who's play and work ethic fell off significantly until he joined the moose and Arniel whipped him back into shape), or you are stuck forever at the bottom of the pecking order (like white, who, no matter what he did, never got past the 3rd line). at the beginning of the season White was tied for the most points on the team, and he still didn't get off the 3rd line and 2nd PP unit.



The problem is the boosters, they pay LOTS of money to the school, so they get to say what goes on with the team, and the coach is their puppet. The boosters also do not care about/recognize talent (not that white has an abundance of it, the kid is a flop), instead all they care about is making sure the kids of their friends/business partners get significant play time. Lucky for Schroeder, his dad is chummy with a number of them, as for white, his parents are not. Off ice politics should never leech into the ice, but that, unfortunately, is the case here.

 

[whalerhawk]

[quote name="canucklehead"]

The coach does not get fired because he is in tight with the boosters, who have significant pull with the program. and it's not the coach forcing the kids to class that is the issue of development, it's the lack of actual coaching. he doesn't match players based on situations or ability, but instead based on who the boosters want to see the most. This has led to a program of no consequences for slacking, failure to put in effort while training, and an entire culture of lackadaisical play/practice. He doesn't get anything out of the kids because no matter what they do they are locked into their position and ice time (which is mainly based on off ice politics between the families of the children and the boosters, not the kid's actual potential/skill. There is no need to work hard, because either you are a sure lock for top ice time (like schroeder, who's play and work ethic fell off significantly until he joined the moose and Arniel whipped him back into shape), or you are stuck forever at the bottom of the pecking order (like white, who, no matter what he did, never got past the 3rd line). at the beginning of the season White was tied for the most points on the team, and he still didn't get off the 3rd line and 2nd PP unit.



The problem is the boosters, they pay LOTS of money to the school, so they get to say what goes on with the team, and the coach is their puppet. The boosters also do not care about/recognize talent (not that white has an abundance of it, the kid is a flop), instead all they care about is making sure the kids of their friends/business partners get significant play time. Lucky for Schroeder, his dad is chummy with a number of them, as for white, his parents are not. Off ice politics should never leech into the ice, but that, unfortunately, is the case here.[/quote]

That sounds logical, but there are only 20 or so kids on the team, meaning you will have at most about 20 families providing support at any one time. Of those 20, an even smaller sub-set have to be giving $$$ above and beyond the rest, otherwise they would have no greater influence than the regular rank and file. I have to imagine the number of boosters with direct ties to the players on the ice are dwarfed by the number of boosters who are alumni and just want to see the team WIN. That's why they support the team, to help them win.



I assume these "regular" boosters, who have no ties to the players on the ice, are far greater in number than the smaller family sub-set. Why don't they carry as much weight when it comes to determining who plays and who doesn't and why is this only an issue at the University of Minnesota? Why isn't this any issue at any other institution where well paid and connected parents make donations in the attempt to influence those who make playing time decisions?

 

[canucklehead]

[quote name="whalerhawk"]

That sounds logical, but there are only 20 or so kids on the team, meaning you will have at most about 20 families providing support at any one time. Of those 20, an even smaller sub-set have to be giving $$$ above and beyond the rest, otherwise they would have no greater influence than the regular rank and file. I have to imagine the number of boosters with direct ties to the players on the ice are dwarfed by the number of boosters who are alumni and just want to see the team WIN. That's why they support the team, to help them win.



I assume these "regular" boosters, who have no ties to the players on the ice, are far greater in number than the smaller family sub-set. Why don't they carry as much weight when it comes to determining who plays and who doesn't and why is this only an issue at the University of Minnesota? Why isn't this any issue at any other institution where well paid and connected parents make donations in the attempt to influence those who make playing time decisions?[/quote]

The politics within the boosters is much deeper and involved than any other hockey college, and they have a select few extremely influential boosters who pretty much run everything, think of it like the Toronto of college hockey. As long as that small amount of boosters are happy, they could care less about the fans and other supporters of the team.

 

[whalerhawk]

[quote name="canucklehead"]

The politics within the boosters is much deeper and involved than any other hockey college, and they have a select few extremely influential boosters who pretty much run everything, think of it like the Toronto of college hockey. As long as that small amount of boosters are happy, they could care less about the fans and other supporters of the team.[/quote]

Very interesting. Are the kids just brainwashed about going to the UofM? I'm thinking if this is my kid, and I know there are incredible games being played at the U regarding playing time, and my kid has the talent to play just about anywhere, then I just tell him that he can pick whatever school he wants just so long as its not the UofM. Why take the risk that you end up like that kid White? If you have the talent to play anywhere, what's the allure for these kids to go there if some of them are just going to waste away on the end of the bench or never turn out to be the player they can be?



Is it the same as a student picking a party school vs. one with better academics because he or she wants to walk through the next 4 years of his or her life just getting drunk and having sex vs. actually using their brain? Is that why the kids go there, because they know they won't have to do any real work once they get there?

 

[canucklehead]

[quote name="whalerhawk"]

Very interesting. Are the kids just brainwashed about going to the UofM? I'm thinking if this is my kid, and I know there are incredible games being played at the U regarding playing time, and my kid has the talent to play just about anywhere, then I just tell him that he can pick whatever school he wants just so long as its not the UofM. Why take the risk that you end up like that kid White? If you have the talent to play anywhere, what's the allure for these kids to go there if some of them are just going to waste away on the end of the bench or never turn out to be the player they can be?



Is it the same as a student picking a party school vs. one with better academics because he or she wants to walk through the next 4 years of his or her life just getting drunk and having sex vs. actually using their brain? Is that why the kids go there, because they know they won't have to do any real work once they get there?[/quote]

It's more like Kid's growing up aspiring the join that school because of their former reputation. The gophers used to be one of the premier hockey school in Minnesota, and the kids in Minnesota grew up aspiring to play for them, because it's almost like the NHL to them. It's what they have focused on for years, and they know no better. the vast majority of the team is homegrown Minnesota talent (all but 1 last season), but some kids HAVE wised up, which is why they are starting to go elsewhere now (and another reason for the decline of the school).



Plus, if your family is in with the boosters, then you have a lot of pressure from your friends and family to play there. Everyone in MN expects you to play for UM, it's almost a foregone conclusion, and kids are not really willing or ready to go against the sentiment unless their parents wise up, which is starting to happen.

 

[Shoots_he_scores]

[quote name="whalerhawk"]

Very interesting. Are the kids just brainwashed about going to the UofM? I'm thinking if this is my kid, and I know there are incredible games being played at the U regarding playing time, and my kid has the talent to play just about anywhere, then I just tell him that he can pick whatever school he wants just so long as its not the UofM. Why take the risk that you end up like that kid White? If you have the talent to play anywhere, what's the allure for these kids to go there if some of them are just going to waste away on the end of the bench or never turn out to be the player they can be?



Is it the same as a student picking a party school vs. one with better academics because he or she wants to walk through the next 4 years of his or her life just getting drunk and having sex vs. actually using their brain? Is that why the kids go there, because they know they won't have to do any real work once they get there?[/quote]

[quote name="Shoots_he_scores"]



Thing is that Leddy got reasonable ice time last year, especially for a freshman in that conference. A guy on the Fighting Sioux board I read had a great point, all these kids who play from the gophers are Minnesota born and raised. Hockey players in that state dream of playing college hockey for the gophers and doing so is just as big of a thrill as making it to the NHL. So for there to be such a large number of players abandoning their dream like this means there has got to be something the coach is doing that the players dont like[/quote]

 

[whalerhawk]

I guess I just don't get it. A kids dream should be to play Division 1 college hockey or make the pros, or both. I don't see why there would be such a draw to one institution. It makes absolutely no sense to me, but if they have a cultist kind of vibe going on in Minnesota, so be it.

 

[Guest]

I'll bet money Leddy is our 5 or 6 Dman.

 

[Guest]

[quote name="R K"]I'll bet money Leddy is our 5 or 6 Dman.[/quote]



God I hope not. The kid plays one year of NCAA hockey and then is thrown into the fire? Sounds like the old way to develop players.

 

[whalerhawk]

[quote name="R K"]I'll bet money Leddy is our 5 or 6 Dman.[/quote]

This year? For real?



I'll take that bet.

 

[Guest]

[quote name="whalerhawk"]

This year? For real?



I'll take that bet.[/quote]





From what I am hearing they are going to give him 8 minutes a night. Not sure what you are hearing though. Tell me?

 

[Guest]

[quote name="TJD"]



God I hope not. The kid plays one year of NCAA hockey and then is thrown into the fire? Sounds like the old way to develop players.[/quote]





You mean like Keith and Seabrook? LOL!