Demp not going anywhere

[daddies3angels]

No, it's just that you build from the farm first and then when YOU HAVE A CORE THAT ISN'T A BUNCH OF OLD, OVERPAID, WASHED UP VETS WHO ARE PAST THEIR PRIME you sign key players again. You build from within and then FIND OUT WHERE YOU NEED TO FILL IN.

""

Cubs have a core, Soto C, 1B ? , 2B ? , SS Castro, 3B i still think A-Ram can be productive if not the main guy, LF Soriano still a very capable 6 hole hitter, CF assuming Jackson and everyteam needs to have young guys, RF?

SP: Garza
SP: Z
SP : Demp
SP: Cashner (when healthy for 2012
SP: McNutt

So again 3 holes to fill. 1B, RF, and 2B.....If they spend big money on 1B and RF prolly could handle Barney at 2B

 

[Jntg4]

Cubs have a core, Soto C, 1B ? , 2B ? , SS Castro, 3B i still think A-Ram can be productive if not the main guy, LF Soriano still a very capable 6 hole hitter, CF assuming Jackson and everyteam needs to have young guys, RF?

SP: Garza
SP: Z
SP : Demp
SP: Cashner (when healthy for 2012
SP: McNutt

So again 3 holes to fill. 1B, RF, and 2B.....If they spend big money on 1B and RF prolly could handle Barney at 2B

That team isn't winning championships anytime soon.

And at this point we can question whether Soto is going to be a legit catcher, as much as it pains me to say it.

OK, Soriano and Ramirez are still decent, but for how long? We aren't winnign championships this year or next, and after that A-Ram definitely won't be here, and Z will be retiring... and Soriano will be, well... really really old.

 

[dabynsky]

Why does it have to be an either or proposition. This team needs to avoid bad contracts, but signing a guy like Fielder to a long term deal makes a lot of sense for this team. There is nothing in the minors at 1B for this team (we got an interesting prospect in the draft at the position but he isn't a lock to sign and is four years away at least). There is a young(ish) core that you can build around in Castro, Soto, Marmol, and Garza.

The Cubs need to avoid the Cubs like moves they've made in the past which is overpaying for middling talent. Going out and signing middle relievers and bench players to big contracts has been a problem. You can get away with large contracts at key spots (and even a bad contract or two) if you fill the bullpen and bench with guys making close to league minimum which the Cubs can do the next year.

So really trading Dempster for me is very similar to trading Zambrano. It wouldn't be terrible if they did it, but I don't see a team that is willing to give up value for a guy that has a 14 million player option and still has an era over 5. If a team decides that it has to have Ryan Dempster and is willing to trade 2 or 3 near ready guys to the Cubs, then you have to jump on it, but for the reasons listed above I don't see that happening.

 

[Jntg4]

Why does it have to be an either or proposition. This team needs to avoid bad contracts, but signing a guy like Fielder to a long term deal makes a lot of sense for this team. There is nothing in the minors at 1B for this team (we got an interesting prospect in the draft at the position but he isn't a lock to sign and is four years away at least). There is a young(ish) core that you can build around in Castro, Soto, Marmol, and Garza.

The Cubs need to avoid the Cubs like moves they've made in the past which is overpaying for middling talent. Going out and signing middle relievers and bench players to big contracts has been a problem. You can get away with large contracts at key spots (and even a bad contract or two) if you fill the bullpen and bench with guys making close to league minimum which the Cubs can do the next year.

So really trading Dempster for me is very similar to trading Zambrano. It wouldn't be terrible if they did it, but I don't see a team that is willing to give up value for a guy that has a 14 million player option and still has an era over 5. If a team decides that it has to have Ryan Dempster and is willing to trade 2 or 3 near ready guys to the Cubs, then you have to jump on it, but for the reasons listed above I don't see that happening.

Because he's complaining that we aren't spending 150 million to win next year.

But we do have Justin Bour.

 

[dabynsky]

Bour is a long ways away as well, and the guy we drafted (Dan Vogelbach is who I am talking about for those who don't know) would be a much higher touted prospect than Bour.

 

[daddies3angels]

Because he's complaining that we aren't spending 150 million to win next year.

But we do have Justin Bour.

Im not even saying 150 mil.....2012 on the Book right now is 72 mil...https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ah4PW47PiAi-dDVmNFRzVENYSTF2OXJwVUUyNVJIaFE&output=html

You add ARB and put payroll at 82 mil. Garza and Soto will go up, rest of guys shouldnt by much.....Then you add 25 mil for Fielder thats 107 mil....if they keep same payroll that would give them 28 mil to build around in other positions like RF, 2B, 3B and even a SP. So its VERY Possible if they spend the money right and keep same payroll they could BUILD a very nice team this offseason.. Then after 2012 Z and Demp money comes off the books. So that offseason could even spend more money. Then after 2014 season Sori contract is off the books. That what BIG MARKETS due. When they have money coming off books you go out and fill spots with that money over again. Cubs should have close to 50 mil this season to spend if they keep the same payroll.

 

[Jntg4]

Im not even saying 150 mil.....2012 on the Book right now is 72 mil...https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ah4PW47PiAi-dDVmNFRzVENYSTF2OXJwVUUyNVJIaFE&output=html

You add ARB and put payroll at 82 mil. Garza and Soto will go up, rest of guys shouldnt by much.....Then you add 25 mil for Fielder thats 107 mil....if they keep same payroll that would give them 28 mil to build around in other positions like RF, 2B, 3B and even a SP. So its VERY Possible if they spend the money right and keep same payroll they could BUILD a very nice team this offseason.. Then after 2012 Z and Demp money comes off the books. So that offseason could even spend more money. Then after 2014 season Sori contract is off the books. That what BIG MARKETS due. When they have money coming off books you go out and fill spots with that money over again. Cubs should have close to 50 mil this season to spend if they keep the same payroll.

You've said 150 million before... you wanted it to be at least that.

But just because we possess money (which we actually don't at this point), doesn't mean we have to spend it.

And we aren't winning next year.

 

[daddies3angels]

You've said 150 million before... you wanted it to be at least that.

But just because we possess money (which we actually don't at this point), doesn't mean we have to spend it.

And we aren't winning next year.

Assuming u said same thing after 2006 also. Teams with money can turn it AROUND alot faster then mid and smaller markets. Start thinking like a big market team like the Cubs are.

 

[Jntg4]

Assuming u said same thing after 2006 also. Teams with money can turn it AROUND alot faster then mid and smaller markets. Start thinking like a big market team like the Cubs are.

I was 11 in 2006, I didn't say shit about us turning it around.

 

[daddies3angels]

I was 11 in 2006, I didn't say shit about us turning it around.

So your 16 right now and still learning baseball.

 

[Jntg4]

So your 16 right now and still learning baseball.

You're some other age and drinking kool-aid and thinking that we will win a championship next year.

 

[daddies3angels]

You're some other age and drinking kool-aid and thinking that we will win a championship next year.

Why you saying they cant? Again if money spent right and they have good offseason like they did in 2007 then theres no reason why they cant contend. Serioulsy if they have same payroll as this year close 50 mil to spend can get a team ALOT of nice players. Its not like they need a whole new 25 man roster with 50 mil. They need 4 to 5 good moves and they can contend. All you can ask for a big market is to try and contend EVERY YEAR. Now if i FLA, TBR, PIT, or KCR fan then yes i understand you have to build within. Big market have the luxary of building within, trading for big names which small market teams cant afford and signing big top FA. You prolly only been following Cubs hard for couple years now and dont understand the frustration that older Cub fans have gone through for 20+ years and some even longer. So yes u might not care if they suck for next 3-5 years but fans like me want to see this team win NOW

 

[Jntg4]

Why you saying they cant? Again if money spent right and they have good offseason like they did in 2007 then theres no reason why they cant contend. Serioulsy if they have same payroll as this year close 50 mil to spend can get a team ALOT of nice players. Its not like they need a whole new 25 man roster with 50 mil. They need 4 to 5 good moves and they can contend. All you can ask for a big market is to try and contend EVERY YEAR. Now if i FLA, TBR, PIT, or KCR fan then yes i understand you have to build within. Big market have the luxary of building within, trading for big names which small market teams cant afford and signing big top FA. You prolly only been following Cubs hard for couple years now and dont understand the frustration that older Cub fans have gone through for 20+ years and some even longer. So yes u might not care if they suck for next 3-5 years but fans like me want to see this team win NOW

I'd like to see them win too, but they aren't going to win NOW, this stuff takes time if done the right way. And trust me, it's worth it. FLA, TB, PIT, and KC have to get it completely right... we just have to do everything right until it is half-done... because we have money to finish it off, they don't. But this is going to take longer than just this year if it is done properly, and if it is done properly, the results will be more than worth it.

 

[daddies3angels]

I'd like to see them win too, but they aren't going to win NOW, this stuff takes time if done the right way. And trust me, it's worth it. FLA, TB, PIT, and KC have to get it completely right... we just have to do everything right until it is half-done... because we have money to finish it off, they don't. But this is going to take longer than just this year if it is done properly, and if it is done properly, the results will be more than worth it.

Castro, Marmol, Marshall, Cashner, Soto, Barney, Brett Jackson, are some pieces to build around. Soriano still a productive player. Demp has been solid since May. Yes players are getting older but if team shows the vets they are going to try and win next year alot of times they get a 2nd wind. Also 50 mil is ALOT of money where they can sign some nice FA or trade for guys to make this team a contender. Espicially when MIL and STL could be losing HUGE pieces and if Cubs can steal one of them away thats a HUGE twist in the division

 

[Jntg4]

Castro, Marmol, Marshall, Cashner, Soto, Barney, Brett Jackson, are some pieces to build around. Soriano still a productive player. Demp has been solid since May. Yes players are getting older but if team shows the vets they are going to try and win next year alot of times they get a 2nd wind. Also 50 mil is ALOT of money where they can sign some nice FA or trade for guys to make this team a contender. Espicially when MIL and STL could be losing HUGE pieces and if Cubs can steal one of them away thats a HUGE twist in the division

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[nwfisch]

Castro, Marmol, Marshall, Cashner, Soto, Barney, Brett Jackson, are some pieces to build around. Soriano still a productive player. Demp has been solid since May. Yes players are getting older but if team shows the vets they are going to try and win next year alot of times they get a 2nd wind. Also 50 mil is ALOT of money where they can sign some nice FA or trade for guys to make this team a contender. Espicially when MIL and STL could be losing HUGE pieces and if Cubs can steal one of them away thats a HUGE twist in the division

Like I mentioned earlier, don't anticipate career years from anyone older than 30. It'd be huge if the Cubs could sign Fielder or Pujols, but I don't see any reason why they'd want to play more then half their home games in the day and deal with the worst facilities in the majors.

 

[dabynsky]

Like I mentioned earlier, don't anticipate career years from anyone older than 30. It'd be huge if the Cubs could sign Fielder or Pujols, but I don't see any reason why they'd want to play more then half their home games in the day and deal with the worst facilities in the majors.

Money talks, and the usual suspects have 1B locked up into longterm deals (NYY, BOS, PHI) already or are in financial difficulties (LAD, NYM). Does that mean that the Cubs are guaranteed to get one of them? Of course not, but to say that they can't get either is silly.

To go off on a bit of a tangent, Fielder would fit so nicely onto this team. At 27 he is the perfect age to come in and play at a high level for several years at the very least, and this lineup would look completely different with Fielder playing 1st base as compared to Carlos Pena.

 

[Captain Obvious]

except for the fact that the vets on this team suck. so yeah **** rebuilding, just tire patch around horrible aging vets...sounds like a contender to me.

Yes, the vets on this team are horrible. Soriano, Fukudome, Byrd, and Ramirez all have OPS+'s 99 or above. Which means that they are all average or above average. Yeah, they really suck.

you have to rebuild. you kinda have no choice in this. the vets on this team blow....its not like there is a core on this team that can be built around and be contenders.

How is there not a core that be built around? While they aren't what they used to be, they are still productive.

Even if we sign free agents we AREN'T going to compete until Soriano's contract is up anyway. So we might as well get the prospects going and THEN sign free agents to fill in the holes.

Yes, because Soriano is 25 guys. It'd be one thing if he completely sucked dick, but he doesn't. He is still a good player. So please, shut the **** up.

No, it's just that you build from the farm first and then when YOU HAVE A CORE THAT ISN'T A BUNCH OF OLD, OVERPAID, WASHED UP VETS WHO ARE PAST THEIR PRIME you sign key players again. You build from within and then FIND OUT WHERE YOU NEED TO FILL IN.

""

I CAN TYPE IN CAPS TOO! I'M SO COOL!

Just because they are past their prime doesn't mean they can't be productive. Is that such hard concept to grasp onto?

I can tell you right now that even with building from with-in, we're going to need a 1B, so we might as well get Fielder, who is an absolute beast.

1. Ok...
2. Ok...
3. Oh, so Darwin Barney is the 3rd biggest reason we aren't winning championships now? I think there are some bigger things holding us back...
4. Now you are just finding another scapegoat in Mike Quade, typical for a Cubs fan.

So we are 3 players away from a world championship? Guess we don't need to find a 3rd baseman or improve starting pitching, eh?

Have you seen Quade's line ups? I mean, he does have a point.

Where exactly do you want us to improve the starting rotation? What should we do there?

That team isn't winning championships anytime soon.

And at this point we can question whether Soto is going to be a legit catcher, as much as it pains me to say it.

OK, Soriano and Ramirez are still decent, but for how long? We aren't winnign championships this year or next, and after that A-Ram definitely won't be here, and Z will be retiring... and Soriano will be, well... really really old.

Ramirez definitely won't be here? How do you know what we don't know? Yeah, Soriano will be rather old, but he will more than likely still be a productive player.

Soto was just the best offensive catcher last year. Let's calm down here.

You've said 150 million before... you wanted it to be at least that.

But just because we possess money (which we actually don't at this point), doesn't mean we have to spend it.

And we aren't winning next year.

We really do possess money. If we didn't, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have signed Pena.

 

[Jntg4]

Yes, the vets on this team are horrible. Soriano, Fukudome, Byrd, and Ramirez all have OPS+'s 99 or above. Which means that they are all average or above average. Yeah, they really suck.



How is there not a core that be built around? While they aren't what they used to be, they are still productive.



Yes, because Soriano is 25 guys. It'd be one thing if he completely sucked dick, but he doesn't. He is still a good player. So please, shut the **** up.



I CAN TYPE IN CAPS TOO! I'M SO COOL!

Just because they are past their prime doesn't mean they can't be productive. Is that such hard concept to grasp onto?

I can tell you right now that even with building from with-in, we're going to need a 1B, so we might as well get Fielder, who is an absolute beast.



Have you seen Quade's line ups? I mean, he does have a point.

Where exactly do you want us to improve the starting rotation? What should we do there?



Ramirez definitely won't be here? How do you know what we don't know? Yeah, Soriano will be rather old, but he will more than likely still be a productive player.

Soto was just the best offensive catcher last year. Let's calm down here.



We really do possess money. If we didn't, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have signed Pena.

Ya, I guess you are pretty cool for typing in all caps... I mean, daddies does it too, guess we have a club going.

Nice job trying to re-simmer something that ended yesterday.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Ya, I guess you are pretty cool for typing in all caps... I mean, daddies does it too, guess we have a club going.

Nice job trying to re-simmer something that ended yesterday.

That doesn't change anything. The points are the same today, yesterday, tomorrow, hell, even in July! Yet again, you get backed into a corner and run away.