Demp not going anywhere

Jntg4

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That doesn't change anything. The points are the same today, yesterday, tomorrow, hell, even in July! Yet again, you get backed into a corner and run away.

Sure it can still be debated... but there really is no point in debating "Oh, our team sucks... should we rebuild or not?".

daddies wants a win now thing for next season, I see it being a longer process.

You're just picking out stuff instead of just agreeing that some form of rebuild is necessary... those were all just parts of a bigger picture.

Unless of course, you don't think anybody should be traded and we should live with the fantasy that this current team is a winner.
 

Captain Obvious

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Sure it can still be debated... but there really is no point in debating "Oh, our team sucks... should we rebuild or not?".

daddies wants a win now thing for next season, I see it being a longer process.

You're just picking out stuff instead of just agreeing that some form of rebuild is necessary... those were all just parts of a bigger picture.

Unless of course, you don't think anybody should be traded and we should live with the fantasy that this current team is a winner.

It's not far from being a team that can get to the playoffs. Once in the playoffs anything can happen.

Fielder, Johnson, and Kubel would give us a real nice shot at the playoffs.
 

bleacherbum54

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It's not far from being a team that can get to the playoffs. Once in the playoffs anything can happen.

Fielder, Johnson, and Kubel would give us a real nice shot at the playoffs.

:obama:



ok hypothetically that happen and we play lights out in the regular season sneak into the playoffs. It will be like 08 all over again we would get sweep not enough pitching or hitting to contend.I want a world series contender not a division contender. The Reds are a perfect example they don't have enough pitching to contend and they have a 5X better lineup and team than we do.
 

Captain Obvious

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:obama:



ok hypothetically that happen and we play lights out in the regular season sneak into the playoffs. It will be like 08 all over again we would get sweep not enough pitching or hitting to contend.I want a world series contender not a division contender. The Reds are a perfect example they don't have enough pitching to contend and they have a 5X better lineup and team than we do.


Once you're in the playoffs, it's a crap shoot. It's all about who gets hot at the right time.

How is it "likely" that we get swept again? Just because it happened then, doesn't mean it will happen again.
 

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Once you're in the playoffs, it's a crap shoot. It's all about who gets hot at the right time.

How is it "likely" that we get swept again? Just because it happened then, doesn't mean it will happen again.

I disagree with that teams like Boston Philly and a few others are built to contend for the world series not just the division. When the Phillys got all that pitching it was so it can compete in the playoffs not just in the regular season.
 

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I disagree with that teams like Boston Philly and a few others are built to contend for the world series not just the division. When the Phillys got all that pitching it was so it can compete in the playoffs not just in the regular season.


You can't talk sense with this guy, you should put Captain Obvious on your ignore list. That's what I did to rid myself of his drivel and it's worked out nicely so far.
 

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dabynsky

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I disagree with that teams like Boston Philly and a few others are built to contend for the world series not just the division. When the Phillys got all that pitching it was so it can compete in the playoffs not just in the regular season.

No one is arguing that being a better team doesn't make it more likely that you are going to win the World Series, but I don't get what is so hard to see that once you are in the playoffs it is just about who is playing the best at the time. How many times has the team with the best record or even the second best record won the World Series in the past 10 years? Were all those teams not designed to win in the postseason?

How were the Cubs with the best offense in the NL and one of the best pitching staffs in baseball in 08 not designed to win in the postseason? Because they got swept? Good teams get swept. It is unforunate that it happened to our team that hasn't won in 103 years, but it doesn't mean that it was bad that we got in.

A team that probably shouldn't have been in the playoffs and just barely got in made it to within 5 outs of the World Series (2003). You have to make the postseason to have a shot at the World Series, and the problem the Cubs have faced is that in my lifetime they have gotten into the playoffs just 6 times.

I don't get why you guys are ready to write off next season at this point in time. We don't have to do an either or proposition when it comes to winning and rebuilding. We sign guys to positions of need that we can't fill from within...*cough*first base*cough*. We let the young guys that we have that are good come in and take jobs at the other spots. We don't go out and overpay for crappy bench players and middle relievers. This team isn't as bad as it records indicates right now, and it isn't out of the realm of possibility that it could contend next year with a few pieces.
 
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nwfisch

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It's not far from being a team that can get to the playoffs.
:lmao:

Joe Buck, Tim McCarver and Ken Rosenthal all agreed on two things 1) The Cubs are not one piece away from contending for the World Series. 2) The Cubs need to rebuild through their farm system.

Fielder is a great piece to begin with, but he does not make the Cubs a playoff contender on his own. The Cubs are going to need 3 OF and a 3B.

The Cubs may even want to consider trading Soto for pieces.
 

dabynsky

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:lmao:

Joe Buck, Tim McCarver and Ken Rosenthal all agreed on two things 1) The Cubs are not one piece away from contending for the World Series. 2) The Cubs need to rebuild through their farm system.

Fielder is a great piece to begin with, but he does not make the Cubs a playoff contender on his own. The Cubs are going to need 3 OF and a 3B.

The Cubs may even want to consider trading Soto for pieces.

Really, the Cubs can't win because Joe Buck, Tim McCarver and Ken Rosenthal say they can't. The same guys who couldn't heap enough praise on a 24 year SS old hitting .240. Okay, then.
 

nwfisch

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Really, the Cubs can't win because Joe Buck, Tim McCarver and Ken Rosenthal say they can't. The same guys who couldn't heap enough praise on a 24 year SS old hitting .240. Okay, then.

Where in my post did it say the Cubs can't win? The Cubs need to rebuild, there's no denying that.

I say they can't win as constructed. If people seriously expect this team to win the World Series this year...they're :turrible:
 

dabynsky

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I say they can't too.
Good for you. Next you will tell me that Joe Morgan agrees with you and then I will surely be convinced.

If people seriously expected this team to win the World Series this year...they're :turrible:

Expect to win a world series? That is a ridiculous notion for any club. As has been shown again and again the best team doesn't win the World Series. The team that happens to play the best for three weeks after getting into the playoffs wins the World Series.

As far as the Cubs making the playoffs this year, I would agree that was a long shot. At the beginning of the year I thought this team was about a .500 club on paper. If everything broke their way perhaps they could get enough wins to sneak into the playoffs in a weak division. Unforunately the exact opposite has happened with injuries and poor performances from several key players.
 

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Good for you. Next you will tell me that Joe Morgan agrees with you and then I will surely be convinced.

Do you honestly think the Cubs can win in the playoffs as currently constructed?


Expect to win a world series? That is a ridiculous notion for any club.

:lmao: Why is that ridiculous? That should be the goal of every team, no matter how bad they are. Tell the Phillies, Red Sox, Yankees, Rangers, and every other team's fans that.

As has been shown again and again the best team doesn't win the World Series.

The Cubs are 10 out now. They won't even get to the playoffs!
Again I ask, Do you honestly think the Cubs can win in the playoffs as currently constructed?

The team that happens to play the best for three weeks after getting into the playoffs wins the World Series.
The Rockies were the best team in the last month of 07, they got swept by the Red Sox. Anyone else?

As far as the Cubs making the playoffs this year, I would agree that was a long shot. At the beginning of the year I thought this team was about a .500 club on paper. If everything broke their way perhaps they could get enough wins to sneak into the playoffs in a weak division. Unforunately the exact opposite has happened with injuries and poor performances from several key players.

So the Cubs core of Ramirez, Soriano, and Fukdome should be retained? I just want to know, because some people on here swear by Soriano.
 

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Do you honestly think the Cubs can win in the playoffs as currently constructed?
I think that this team in playoffs would probably not make it out of the first round. But I thought the same thing about the 2006 St. Louis Cardinals and they have a World Series title.




:lmao: Why is that ridiculous? That should be the goal of every team, no matter how bad they are. Tell the Phillies, Red Sox, Yankees, Rangers, and every other team's fans that.
That should be the goal of every organization, but is that realistic? There is no magic formula for winning in the postseason. I can show you case after case of the best team not winning the World Series. The expectation should be to get into the playoffs. My goal for the Cubs every year is pretty much the same. I want them to win 90+ games and make the playoffs. I knew they wouldn't likely reach either goal, but if my team does that enough it will win a World Series.



The Cubs are 10 out now. They won't even get to the playoffs!
Again I ask, Do you honestly think the Cubs can win in the playoffs as currently constructed?
Again show me one post that I said this was a good baseball team. I said it was an average team that if everything broke its way could make the playoffs. I don't know how they would do in the playoffs, and no matter what you want to say neither do you.

That is the point. There is no formula for success in the playoffs. Baseball executives having been trying to find one for over a century now, and there just isn't one. Teams have one with great offenses and without. Teams have won with great defenses and without. Teams have won with great pitching and without. There is a reason that the baseball regular season is nearly twice as long as any other sport. There is so much randomness in the game that the only way to truly determine the better teams is over that long of a season.


The Rockies were the best team in the last month of 07, they got swept by the Red Sox. Anyone else?
And you prove my point about there being no magic formula. Teams have gone into the playoffs hot and then lost. Teams have gone into playoffs cold and then gotten hot. The only thing that determines the World Series once you get into the playoffs is how you play in about three weeks of baseball. As we have countless examples teams with less talent are capable of playing really well for that amount of time and beat teams with more talent.


So the Cubs core of Ramirez, Soriano, and Fukdome should be retained? I just want to know, because some people on here swear by Soriano.
I want the Cubs to field the best possible team that they can realistically field next year. I think that means keeping some of the guys you mentioned due to a variety of factors.

I would lean towards the Cubs keeping Ramirez, if they could convince him to come back on a short term deal that is cheaper than his team option. The reason is that they aren't viable options in the system right now to take his spot, and what is available on the market is likely to be garbage (unless you want to play fantasy baseball and call Pujols a 3B).

Soriano is going to be here because no one will take his contract. I don't think the Cubs would be better off paying another team 90% of his salary to just be rid of him. If another team wanted to take that entire contract I would gladly trade him for the waiver fee. Soriano isn't the worst player on this team, and he does provide offensive value to this team. So if I could waive him and have another team claim him I would jump for joy. But since that won't happen I will deal with him in LF on a terrible contract. Having Soriano does not prevent this team from winning, and in fact if Soriano was just counted on to be a guy to provide bottom of the order power he could be quite useful.

Fukudome I could go either way on to be honest. I love the OBP he provides to the team, and he, Pena, and Soto really are the only guys that are capable of working a count at all on this team. I don't want to pay him 12 million to do that however. I also wouldn't be opposed to trading him, picking up a little salary to get a quality prospect or two back. The reason is because the system has several options at OF that might be viable. Brett Jackson being the most likely.

Let me sum it up here because I think you missed my point. I think that the goal for next year should be to make the playoffs. I think that with a few smart moves and improvements from within this team could reach that goal.
 

Rice Cube

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I think you overestimate the ability of Hendry and Ricketts to make "smart moves" and also hoping for improvements from within this team is probably a fool's errand as they are aging and will likely get suckier than they are this year. It's one thing to hope for a bounceback from a young team, but with an old team, they are most likely just done. Hedging money on the hope that a bunch of 30-somethings will regain their superstar edge is something that doesn't equate with "smart baseball"...just an opinion.
 

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I think that the goal for next year should be to make the playoffs. I think that with a few smart moves and improvements from within this team could reach that goal.
:clap: we agree. It takes more than 1 FA to get the Cubs back to the playoffs.
 

dabynsky

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I think you overestimate the ability of Hendry and Ricketts to make "smart moves" and also hoping for improvements from within this team is probably a fool's errand as they are aging and will likely get suckier than they are this year. It's one thing to hope for a bounceback from a young team, but with an old team, they are most likely just done. Hedging money on the hope that a bunch of 30-somethings will regain their superstar edge is something that doesn't equate with "smart baseball"...just an opinion.

Those aren't the internal improvements I am counting on though. I was looking at the continued improvements of young to youngish players. Guys like Garza and Soto have a number of statistical indicators that point to producing better than their numbers have shown this year, and at age 27 and 28 respectively I don't think it is unrealistic. Castro is only 21, and I think it is very possible that he will add power of the next several years which will turn him into an elite level player.

Also I don't think it is impossible that Dempster would pitch closer to 2010 levels given the fact that he has recovered nicely from a disastrous April.

I don't have a ton of faith in Hendry, but just because I don't have faith in Hendry doesn't mean that it is possible.
 

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:clap: we agree. It takes more than 1 FA to get the Cubs back to the playoffs.

When did I ever say that the Cubs only needed one move to get back to the playoffs? There is a middle ground between needing one player and this team not being able to make the playoffs next year. That is what I've been arguing for the entire time I've been posting here.
 

nwfisch

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When did I ever say that the Cubs only needed one move to get back to the playoffs? There is a middle ground between needing one player and this team not being able to make the playoffs next year. That is what I've been arguing for the entire time I've been posting here.

Other posters on here are insistent on signing Fielder and him bringing the Cubs to the promised land.
 

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