Derrick Rose is the Bulls problem

[The Hawk]

Rose

Mirotic

Butler

Gibson

Noah

Thibs needs to shake it up.

 

[clonetrooper264]

He's a shoot first guard also is he not? Is he a true point guard?

Of course he's a shoot first point guard. That does NOT mean he isn't also a playmaker. Is Lebron James not a playmaker because he takes a ton of shots? Ridiculous comparison? Absolutely. Point still stands though.

Or look at it this way. Do you consider Damian Lillard a playmaker? I do. State Farm sure does. His assist percentage is about 30 (29.4 to be exact). DRose has an assist percentage of exactly 30. Brooks is at 25. Rondo, the ultimate pass first point guard, has an assist percentage of 40. Rose hit that number his MVP year. He is a playmaker, he's just not playing like one currently.

When has he played? How well did he play before he got hurt? Is he an NBA quality starting SF?

17 games ago. Well enough to have one of the highest plus minus stats in the entire NBA. Yes.

As for Butler, I don't think that he plays well off of Rose. They'd be better off with a real shooting guard AND HIM.

Sure, but we don't have a "real shooting guard" apparently so we'll have to deal with it.

 

[2323]

Brooks can't set others up?

He's a shoot first guard also is he not? Is he a true point guard?

Dunleavy doesn't have a consistent outside shot?

When has he played? How well did he play before he got hurt? Is he an NBA quality starting SF?

As for Butler, I don't think that he plays well off of Rose. They'd be better off with a real shooting guard AND HIM.

The league favors a PG who makes others better and a SG who can score in the paint and at the line more.

 

[clonetrooper264]

The league favors a PG who makes others better and a SG who can score in the paint and at the line more.

Rose certainly can make others better and scoring in the paint and getting to the line are what Butler does best. I am therefore confused at what we're missing.

 

[2323]

Rose certainly can make others better and scoring in the paint and getting to the line are what Butler does best. I am therefore confused at what we're missing.

Not missing anything. Maybe you should stick to I and avoid we.

My comment goes back to the relationship between Roses play, including how he plays and the drop off from Butler.

 

[ChiSoxCity]

But, how is he slumping? How much of its his shots aren't falling and how much of it he has a style of play that's defective for this team? Are we simply hoping that he's on a good streak when he's in the playoffs or are we hoping he modifies his game to make others better, in which case they would be less reliant on his shots falling?

I think this attempt to put a bow on the topic by saying it's one of many problems is lazy analysis and an easy way out. It's lazy analysis. It indicates a refusal to acknowledge how significant this problem is. The Bulls have a huge problem with Rose. It's the biggest problem that exists.

I disagree with Rose being the biggest problem. They still have Brooks, who in my mind has been a better PG than Rose over the course of the season. He's not good defensively, but the offense flows better when he runs it, plus he's a superior shooter from the perimeter.

To me, the biggest problem is Noah. He's been hot garbage this year, and the Bulls' frontcourt has become very weak as a result. They need to trade for a big man with size who can defend and clean up in the paint. Anyone who thinks Noah will miraculously recover from his various foot/ankle/knee injuries is kidding themselves. His NBA career is pretty much toast.


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[PolarBear]

Not missing anything. Maybe you should stick to I and avoid we.

My comment goes back to the relationship between Roses play, including how he plays and the drop off from Butler.

Rose didn't all of a sudden start playing in January...Rose was playing back in November and December when Butler was putting up big numbers.

The biggest problem is the lack of perimeter shooting. Mirotic minutes have gone down and Dunleavy and McDermott have been injured.

 

[1ke]

The league favors a PG who makes others better and a SG who can score in the paint and at the line more.

False.

The league favors superstars.

 

[vinson555]

Do you think Rose is capable of acting more like a true point guard? Do you think he's too stubborn to adapt his style of play or that he's too dumb to recognize he needs to?

It was what he wanted to be when he came into the NBA. But I think now, he almost has to be. He can't be the guy anymore on this team. I think that has been proven. I think he would be better pressed working on becoming closer to Steve Nash in the way he became a PG late in his career. More scoring... but who knows, next year, he could be a lot better and back to old Rose... nothing is certain.

 

[clonetrooper264]

It was what he wanted to be when he came into the NBA. But I think now, he almost has to be. He can't be the guy anymore on this team. I think that has been proven. I think he would be better pressed working on becoming closer to Steve Nash in the way he became a PG late in his career. More scoring... but who knows, next year, he could be a lot better and back to old Rose... nothing is certain.

I say again, Rose in his MVP year had a similar assist percentage to the likes of great distributors like Rondo and Stephen Curry. He CAN be a PG who sets guys up. He's had double digit assist games this year.

Here's this issue with Rose on the pass vs the shot. He creates for others by virtue of his driving ability. His playmaking ability is dependent on how well he can attack the basket. When he attacks, the whole defense collapses and now others are open. Because he's been less effective at scoring this year, teams can afford to play him more for the pass. A perfect example is the high wing pick and pop play with Gasol that gets run rather frequently. When Rose is able attack off that screen, it forces Gasol's defender to play off of Gasol to help on the Rose drive. Now Gasol is open and things go from there. However, when he's unable to do anything off that screen, Gasol's defender can then anticipate the pass back to Gasol. We've seen this happen several times as well. Therefore, Rose kind of needs to be a little selfish in order to be unselfish.

At the end of the day, we know Rose is a willing passer. We've seen it his whole career. We saw it in FIBA this past summer even. The difference is, he's less of a threat to break his man down than we've seen in the past and it allows the defense to cheat.

 

[PolarBear]

I say again, Rose in his MVP year had a similar assist percentage to the likes of great distributors like Rondo and Stephen Curry. He CAN be a PG who sets guys up. He's had double digit assist games this year.

Here's this issue with Rose on the pass vs the shot. He creates for others by virtue of his driving ability. His playmaking ability is dependent on how well he can attack the basket. When he attacks, the whole defense collapses and now others are open. Because he's been less effective at scoring this year, teams can afford to play him more for the pass. A perfect example is the high wing pick and pop play with Gasol that gets run rather frequently. When Rose is able attack off that screen, it forces Gasol's defender to play off of Gasol to help on the Rose drive. Now Gasol is open and things go from there. However, when he's unable to do anything off that screen, Gasol's defender can then anticipate the pass back to Gasol. We've seen this happen several times as well. Therefore, Rose kind of needs to be a little selfish in order to be unselfish.

At the end of the day, we know Rose is a willing passer. We've seen it his whole career. We saw it in FIBA this past summer even. The difference is, he's less of a threat to break his man down than we've seen in the past and it allows the defense to cheat.

Nailed it.

 

[Choisauce]

Just because Rose is a score first PG doesn't mean he can't/wont set up his teammates.

It's not unreasonable to expect Rose putting up numbers like 18-23 ppg 5-8 assists 3-5 rebs more consistently in the 2nd half of the NBA regular season. LeBron is able to get similar numbers while still being aggressive. Rose has the ability to do the same, and has shown he can in December/early Jan when Bulls were going on the streak of wins with, you know, a full healthy roster.

Rose would set tone early in 1st quarter with a couple outside shots and then some attempts driving to the hoop. 2nd/3rd quarter he'd look to set up other players and in the 4th quarter with 5-6 mins left, the dude closed out games. THAT'S what we need to see more of on a consistent basis. Right now the team has been getting away from what was working, mainly due to injuries, but look for the Bulls to correct their mental mistakes and get healthy. The NBA season is a grind, there will be ups and downs, especially if you have core players injured (noah/rose/dunleavy at this point).

It's not like the NFL where you get a week to prepare for 1 team and you only play 16 reg season games. This lull between the suns game and houston is the largest break they've had probably all month. They've played 10 games since Jan 14th.....keep in mind the hours they lose traveling too.

 

[2323]

False.

The league favors superstars.

If you're talking about hype and promotion. But not styles of play.

 

[2323]

Just because Rose is a score first PG doesn't mean he can't/wont set up his teammates.

It's not unreasonable to expect Rose putting up numbers like 18-23 ppg 5-8 assists 3-5 rebs more consistently in the 2nd half of the NBA regular season. LeBron is able to get similar numbers while still being aggressive. Rose has the ability to do the same, and has shown he can in December/early Jan when Bulls were going on the streak of wins with, you know, a full healthy roster.

Rose would set tone early in 1st quarter with a couple outside shots and then some attempts driving to the hoop. 2nd/3rd quarter he'd look to set up other players and in the 4th quarter with 5-6 mins left, the dude closed out games. THAT'S what we need to see more of on a consistent basis. Right now the team has been getting away from what was working, mainly due to injuries, but look for the Bulls to correct their mental mistakes and get healthy. The NBA season is a grind, there will be ups and downs, especially if you have core players injured (noah/rose/dunleavy at this point).

It's not like the NFL where you get a week to prepare for 1 team and you only play 16 reg season games. This lull between the suns game and houston is the largest break they've had probably all month. They've played 10 games since Jan 14th.....keep in mind the hours they lose traveling too.

People need to stop comparing Rose and LeBron. LeBron has a huge size advantage over Rose that allows him to get points inside in more ways. Rose isn't going to post anyone up and receive a pass the way LeBron can. These are easy points. Roses points come the hard way which is by taking the ball from the top of the key and making it mast every level of the defense. This is a hard way to get points in an efficient, sustainable way. The best thing Rose can probably do to buoy his FG % is push tempo. Maybe he can get a few more cheapies that way. But other than that, it's tough. LeBrons size allows him to go anywhere on the floor with or without the basketball and have a good chance of being successful. Not so much with Rose.

 

[2323]

Nailed it.

No he didn't. 2011 was so long ago, it's questionable whether it's even relevant anymore.

 

[clonetrooper264]

No he didn't. 2011 was so long ago, it's questionable whether it's even relevant anymore.

Dude 2011 was like 2% of the point of that post

 

[2323]

I say again, Rose in his MVP year had a similar assist percentage to the likes of great distributors like Rondo and Stephen Curry. He CAN be a PG who sets guys up. He's had double digit assist games this year.

Here's this issue with Rose on the pass vs the shot. He creates for others by virtue of his driving ability. His playmaking ability is dependent on how well he can attack the basket. When he attacks, the whole defense collapses and now others are open. Because he's been less effective at scoring this year, teams can afford to play him more for the pass. A perfect example is the high wing pick and pop play with Gasol that gets run rather frequently. When Rose is able attack off that screen, it forces Gasol's defender to play off of Gasol to help on the Rose drive. Now Gasol is open and things go from there. However, when he's unable to do anything off that screen, Gasol's defender can then anticipate the pass back to Gasol. We've seen this happen several times as well. Therefore, Rose kind of needs to be a little selfish in order to be unselfish.

At the end of the day, we know Rose is a willing passer. We've seen it his whole career. We saw it in FIBA this past summer even. The difference is, he's less of a threat to break his man down than we've seen in the past and it allows the defense to cheat.

Yeah. This rationalizing his style of play opening up shots for others is quickly becoming myth. It's not happening. He's not delivering passes on time because he's too intent on scoring. Guys aren't in the flow of the offense. Rose is like a pitcher who tries to strike everyone out and because of that the defense behind him isn't as good since they're on their heels. If a pitcher throws strikes and involves the defense behind him, he gets better defensive support. Basketball is probably even more sensitive to this.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Yeah. This rationalizing his style of play opening up shots for others is quickly becoming myth. It's not happening. He's not delivering passes on time because he's too intent on scoring. Guys aren't in the flow of the offense. Rose is like a pitcher who tries to strike everyone out and because of that the defense behind him isn't as good since they're on their heels. If a pitcher throws strikes and involves the defense behind him, he gets better defensive support. Basketball is probably even more sensitive to this.

He's so intent on scoring that he still has a 30% assist rate. Yup. Makes sense.

We get it. You don't like Rose.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Also...pitches are supposed to throw strikes regardless of their defense.

 

[1ke]

No he didn't. 2011 was so long ago, it's questionable whether it's even relevant anymore.

You clearly are very are selective. Why do you hate him so much? It's pretty clear. Does he owe you money, did he leave a pearl necklace on your mum? It's odd.