houheffna
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Why do you act as if Nash is so easy to duplicate? Rose is not that type of player. There is a reason why Nash was 2x MVP...guys like him don't grow on trees...
Why do you act as if Nash is so easy to duplicate? Rose is not that type of player. There is a reason why Nash was 2x MVP...guys like him don't grow on trees...
Commodore K'nection
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Ok so what you're saying is our offense blows. So why not revamp the offense. Spread the floor, use the 2-man pick and roll and and create open passing lanes for bigs to finish. Teach Derrick to abuse the defense the way Nash does it with his bounce pass.
Changing our offense has nothing to do with how we play on defense. Korver, Deng, Bogans can all hit the spot up 3 when the floor is spaced. Use Rose and any of the bigs on the pick-and-roll, where Rose can either take it himself, give it up for a big to finish, or kick it to a spot-up shooter in the corner all based on what the defense gives us.
Or we can stick with the offense that struggled to get us 90 pts a game in the playoffs, and say oh well, Derrick needs more help trade everyone for Dwight Howard.
Commodore K'nection
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What you don't understand is, Steve Nash wasn't always the Steve Nash that we know now. HE BECAME this play-maker by learning his craft. His first several years in the league Nash (think Dallas years) averaged 2.1, 3.5, 5.5, 4.9, 7.3,7.7, 7.3, 8.8 assists per game.
It was later in his career in his second stint in PHX that he honed his craft enough, almost a decade into his career, that he became the Nash we know now. An unstoppable creator on offense that simply abuses the defense at will.
It all goes back to my point about Rose being too small to play like Kobe. At 6-2 he doesn't have the tools to shoot 25 shots a game and still shoot a high %. But Rose's strengths--quickness and ball handling--are tools that Kobe doesn't have. Instead of playing like Kobe, put the work in to develop into an unstoppable play-maker that is a bigger, stronger, better finishing version of Steve Nash.
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Just because our offense is different doesn't mean it blows.
Also, this guy you keep saying Derrick should turn into, Steve Nash? Yeah guess how many rings he has?
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I notice one thing in a majority of these videos. Moses popped up and parted the red sea for a ton of these dunks.
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Nope.
I stopped reading here because you clearly have no ability to comprehend simple ideas.
Commodore K'nection
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Steve Nash doesn't have any rings because the Suns don't play any defense. D'Antoni didn't believe in defense, Alvin Gentry is only a little bit better.
I'm haven't made a single comment in this thread about changing our defense. Keep the same system, just make changes to improve our offense. As it stands now, Derrick Rose gets 50% or more of the shots, the rest of the 9 guys just stand around and watch Rose break down 1, 2 or sometimes 3 guys on offense.
You mentioned we should get a shooting guard and a low post player. We already have a low post player, Carlos Boozer. One that we've lacked for years, but now finally have but don't use. Derrick rarely throws him the ball in the post, Thibs even mentioned this in the Heat series. He said we need to post the ball more, but Rose looks into the post, doesn't like what he sees initially and tries to break down his man. Throw it into the post, if it's not there, kick it out and throw it back in once Boozer repositions.
The problem is, D-Rose thinks like a scorer first, instead of giving his teammates a chance to do what they were brought in to do.
Commodore K'nection
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If you watched the video I posted on the original post, the one with the Nash/Stoudemire pick-and-roll highlights, you'll see the same thing. But OVER and OVER and OVER again. Moses parts the red sea for Stoudemire. Why? It's not because he's Jewish. It's because when you run the pick-and-roll correctly (meaning hard screen, hard roll to the basket) it causes the defense to get mixed up.
Two defenders are chasing Steve Nash, Nash's original defender chasing him around the screen, and also the Big who was guarding Stoudemire who now switched to Nash. So Nash has taken on two defenders leaving Amare with a clean look to the basket.
The DIFFERENCE between Rose and Nash is that Steve Nash knows how to thread the pass through the defenders and give Amare an easy dunk. Rose on the other hand, tries continually to go around the screen and drive to the hole, completely ignoring the big man who set the pick who is now wide open.
The reason the red sea parts is because when you run a P&R, it creates confusion on the defense. Guys don't know who they are suppose to guard, signals get mixed up and good PGs know HOW to exploit this like Nash.
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DRose needs a real Center.
Commodore K'nection
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Bottom line, when Rose gets other players involved, we usually win. I can't think of any game off the top of my head where Rose got 10 or more assists and we lost. When Rose is in pass-first mode, defenses get discombulated.
I can think of several games where Rose jacks up 25+ shots (the entire Heat series) and we lose. It's not a coincidence. The Bulls play well as a team when the entire team is involved. When Rose tries to do everything, we shoot poorly as an offense and struggle to score.
I can think of several games where Rose jacks up 25+ shots (the entire Heat series) and we lose. It's not a coincidence. The Bulls play well as a team when the entire team is involved. When Rose tries to do everything, we shoot poorly as an offense and struggle to score.
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Even this thought process doesn't make sense. What if Rose puts guys in position to score and they just miss shots? Rose can't control that. I'd love Rose to get "more people involved" but when 2/5th of the starting lineup have little to no offensive game that's kind of tough to do..Plus The Bulls offense is designed for Rose to be the lead scorer. You may not like it but that's more of an issue you should raise with Thibs rather than blaming it on Rose.
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Lol? Boozer is a mid range guy. His points come from 17 foot shots.
Commodore K'nection
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I agree with your point about missing shots. It's a fact, sometimes Rose makes passes to wide-open teammates who miss shots. Rose doesn't get credit for an assist. But in this entire Heat series, that wasn't the case.
With the exception of Game 3, as the series wore on Rose took progressively more and more of the teams shots.
G1: 25% of total team FG attempts
G2: 28%
G3: 25%
G4: 31%
G5: 35%
The more shots he took, the worse his shooting percentage grew. In the two games that he shot "only" 25% of the team's total FG attempts, his FG% was over 40%. Not great, but not
In the other three games, when Derrick went Black Mamba, his FG% was a putrid 30%. The ridiculously high FG attempts tell you that Rose simply wasn't making enough plays for his teammates. Even if teammates were missing open shots, it would be reflected in their FG attempts. The fact that Rose's FG attempts grew every game reflect that he wasn't giving them enough chances to make plays.
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Commodore K'nection
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That's incorrect. In the Bulls offense for whatever reason Boozer gets his scoring off mid-range shots. But for most of his career (in Cleveland and Utah) he was a post/power player first. Even though he's adept at hitting the mid-range J like Chris Bosh, Boozer is equally adept at playing in the paint. Rose just didn't give him a chance like Deron Williams did in Utah.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd60KdzvDys]YouTube - Carlos Boozer - The Alaskan Beast[/ame]
Commodore K'nection
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Here is another one. This is 41 pts from one game. Watch how many of his points come in the paint vs mid-range jumpers. Only 2 of his pts (not counting FTs not shown) came from shooting a 17-foot jumper. The rest were in or around the paint. We already have a post player, we just don't deploy him because of the way Rose controls the ball.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WCJSX2Ri-w&feature=related]YouTube - Carlos Boozer Scores a Career High of 41 Points[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WCJSX2Ri-w&feature=related]YouTube - Carlos Boozer Scores a Career High of 41 Points[/ame]
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What the heck...? He's not screaming? Who is this guy? xD
But seriously, this is the Boozer we need in order to get to the Finals. Get him some pick and roll action or whatever he needs to do to get that kind of scoring position.
Commodore K'nection
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Here is our 'Nash to Amare' connection. I found this play between Rose and Taj Gibson. This is probably the best assist of Derrick Rose's career. Derrick goes around a Taj pick taking two defenders with him then threads a pass off the ground to Taj for the easy dunk.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI5WlQwbBmc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI5WlQwbBmc[/ame]
This is the kind of play-making that was missing in the Heat series. Isn't this a heck of a lot easier way to score two points than taking on 3 guys in the paint by himself? Derrick can break down a defense with his quickness but needs to complement that with his passing to exploit holes in the defense.
If Derrick can work with Coach Thibs on this element of his game, and come back next season more dedicated to creating for his team, the Bulls offense can take on the Heat.
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houheffna
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I really think Rose is fine the way he is...he was always a traditional point. His teammates dictate how he plays the game. By the way, one of the problems is that Boozer did not finish well under the basket. The personnel will have a lot to do with Rose's play. You will see that over the course of his career...
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The game is changing. More athletic stronger point guards dominate the game now. We have the best one out there, you don't fix what's not broken.
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We just need people to step up in big games. Rose can't do it himself.