Duncan Keith - Norris Trophy Lock?

[Forklift]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="LordKOTL" data-cid="225269" data-time="1397057474">
<div>


Less, actually. Toews & Kane make $6.3M.  The amount of capspace needed might be as low as 5.4M--just to reinforce your point :icon-smile: That extra .6M might help with whomever fills in depth-wise.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


This is where Stan Bowman will really have to put on the green visor. While I'm fairly certain Kane and Toews will both be extended in time for McDonough to have his annual Big Reveal at the Convention this summer, the paper that comes due at the end of 2015 also includes RFAs Saad, Kruger and Leddy. Not to mention if Clendening, Dahlbeck, Svedberg, Carey of LeBlanc stick around.</p>


 </p>


OK, fine - I chuckled when I typed LeBlanc.</p>

 

[LordKOTL]

To add to that I think one or both of Leddy/Oduya goes. Hammer is about 1M underpaid, and we have Clendening, Dahlbeck, and Runblad who could take on 4-6 slots going forward. </p>


 </p>


I also think Bickell might be moved, as well as Versteeg--injured or not both have underperformed. Other than that the real question is who do we keep and who is depth--and is there any "core" that could be cylcled out for new blood if they can be viably replaced.</p>

 

[MassHavoc]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Forklift" data-cid="225262" data-time="1397054975">
<div>


Not to mention - using $9 million/per as your baseline - keeping both players requires the Hawks to have $6 million in cap space over their current available amount. Any other team needs to clear $9 million just to get one.</p>


 </p>


Also, let's call this a hunch...these guys probably like winning Stanley Cups. I mean, they'd be the Toast of the Town wherever they play, but Chicago is a pretty damn good town to get toasted in.</p>
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 </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="LordKOTL" data-cid="225269" data-time="1397057474">
<div>


Less, actually. Toews & Kane make $6.3M.  The amount of capspace needed might be as low as 5.4M--just to reinforce your point :icon-smile: That extra .6M might help with whomever fills in depth-wise.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


You know Forklift, this is a great point that I hadn't really thought about. For them to go to any other team separately, it's going to cost them 9m, which I'm sure they would be able to do but they would have to make significant trades to get enough space, or it's going to be a team that has the space, but doesn't  have anyone around them to play with and I don't think they want to go into a rebuild again after all their success unless it's a strange Toews to Winnepeg or Kane to Buffalo situation. But that still doesn't make sense. But really it's going to cost the Hawks 5.4 mil more which is a decent player, but you can find that much, to keep them both, or another team 9 mil just to get one while trying to keep their team intact. Plus, the cap keeps going up so that 5.4 won't seem like near as big a deal in the coming years.</p>

 

[puckjim]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Forklift" data-cid="225282" data-time="1397061635">
<div>


This is where Stan Bowman will really have to put on the green visor. While I'm fairly certain Kane and Toews will both be extended in time for McDonough to have his annual Big Reveal at the Convention this summer, the paper that comes due at the end of 2015 also includes RFAs Saad, Kruger and Leddy. Not to mention if Clendening, Dahlbeck, Svedberg, Carey of LeBlanc stick around.</p>


 </p>


OK, fine - I chuckled when I typed LeBlanc.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


Is this Latin for "Trading Brent Seabrook?"</p>

 

[Forklift]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MassHavoc" data-cid="225293" data-time="1397064149">
<div>


You know Forklift, this is a great point that I hadn't really thought about. For them to go to any other team separately, it's going to cost them 9m, which I'm sure they would be able to do but they would have to make significant trades to get enough space, or it's going to be a team that has the space, but doesn't  have anyone around them to play with and I don't think they want to go into a rebuild again after all their success unless it's a strange Toews to Winnepeg or Kane to Buffalo situation. But that still doesn't make sense. But really it's going to cost the Hawks 5.4 mil more which is a decent player, but you can find that much, to keep them both, or another team 9 mil just to get one while trying to keep their team intact. Plus, the cap keeps going up so that 5.4 won't seem like near as big a deal in the coming years.</p>
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</blockquote>


 </p>


I think these guys worked as hard as they did to get where they've gotten so they wouldn't have to play in places like Winnipeg or Buffalo.</p>

 

[Variable]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="puckjim" data-cid="225300" data-time="1397071395">
<div>


Is this Latin for "Trading Brent Seabrook?"</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


You mean Crawford?</p>

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="puckjim" data-cid="225300" data-time="1397071395">
<div>


Is this Latin for "Trading Brent Seabrook?"</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


Not a good idea, Seabrook is as solid as they come despite his recent play. </p>

 

[puckjim]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="225302" data-time="1397072130">
<div>


You mean Crawford?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


Why would they trade Crawford after just re-signing him?</p>

 

[puckjim]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="PSR" data-cid="225303" data-time="1397073803">
<div>


Not a good idea, Seabrook is as solid as they come despite his recent play. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>


He is, but they've got a logjam of defensemen coming up, and Nick Leddy is going to win the Norris Trophy one day.</p>


 </p>


Seabrook would fetch a nice value, especially with the pending cap crunch.</p>


 </p>


Can't keep everyone...</p>

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="puckjim" data-cid="225305" data-time="1397074589">
<div>


Why would they trade Crawford after just re-signing him?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


Because Raanta can get the job done just as effectively. It was an unfortunate signing in the offseason.</p>

 

[puckjim]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="PSR" data-cid="225307" data-time="1397076649">
<div>


Because Raanta can get the job done just as effectively. It was an unfortunate signing in the offseason.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


There is not one shred of proof that Raanta can get the job done just as effectively.</p>


 </p>


Crawford is an above average goaltender that was signed to a contract slightly above market value, but that will be below market value by the time it expires.</p>


 </p>


His numbers this year have been quite good, especially since returning from the injury.</p>

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="puckjim" data-cid="225309" data-time="1397077089">
<div>


There is not one shred of proof that Raanta can get the job done just as effectively.</p>


 </p>


Crawford is an above average goaltender that was signed to a contract slightly above market value, but that will be below market value by the time it expires.</p>


 </p>


His numbers this year have been quite good, especially since returning from the injury.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


The only proof you need is the team in front of him. Niemi got it done as a completely unproven rookie, Crawford got it done as an average goaltender, in terms of spending money elsewhere to make the entire team better the proof is in the pudding. </p>

 

[puckjim]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="PSR" data-cid="225310" data-time="1397077273">


The only proof you need is the team in front of him. Niemi got it done as a completely unproven rookie, Crawford got it done as an average goaltender, in terms of spending money elsewhere to make the entire team better the proof is in the pudding.</p></blockquote>
Raanta has not been in the same Zip Code of Niemi in 2010.


Crawford is not an average goaltender.


Since January Stats:


2.00 GAA Average

.926 Save Percentage

 

[LordKOTL]

Since the Olympic break Crawford on average has let 2 per game in regardless of Softie or D shitting the bed.  Raanta on average has let in 3+ per game regardless of Softie or D shitting the bed.</p>


 </p>


I don't think Crawford is going anywhere--Raanta hasn't even gone through the obligatory Sophomore Slump yet and can go either the way of good enough or mediocrity--plus, we're rather shallow in net after Crawford and Raanta.</p>


 </p>


After this year we lose or need to resign Zeus, Morin, Smith, Regin, Brookbank, Khabi, Raanta, Labarbera, & PMB.  Assuming none resign that's $9.5475M freed, and $6.030833M taken up by extensions, giving us a shade over 3.5M plus the difference in next year's cap to this year's.  We also have 20 guys signed into next year--the only critical position is a backup goaltender to resign. </p>


 </p>


So, for the 3.5M of spare space plus going into next year....</p>


Our RFA's our currently making:</p>


Raanta .925M</p>


Morin .735M</p>


Smith .5625M</p>


 </p>


Our UFA's are currently making:</p>


PMB: 2M </p>


Labarbera 1M</p>


Khabi 1.7M</p>


Brookbank 1.25M</p>


Regin .375M</p>


Zeus 1M</p>


 </p>


The questions are:</p>


1) Do we really need to re-sign *any* of the UFA's?</p>


2) With Labarbera making 1M and Raanta an RFA, how much more will he really make?</p>


3) Smith is the most deserving of a raise of the RFA guys, but how much more than .525M will he realistically get?</p>


4) Will Raanta and Smith, and possibly Morin, really cost more than $3.5M+ than what they are making now?</p>


 </p>


I honestly don't think Crawford or Seabs are going anywhere this summer.  I think we can fit everyone needed over the summer even if the cap wasn't going up, and I can see Bickell and Oduya dropped beforre Crawford and Seabs--especially since Oduya's going into a contract year next year.</p>

 

[puckjim]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="LordKOTL" data-cid="225315" data-time="1397079904">

Since the Olympic break Crawford on average has let 2 per game in regardless of Softie or D shitting the bed.  Raanta on average has let in 3+ per game regardless of Softie or D shitting the bed.

 

I don't think Crawford is going anywhere--Raanta hasn't even gone through the obligatory Sophomore Slump yet and can go either the way of good enough or mediocrity--plus, we're rather shallow in net after Crawford and Raanta.

 

After this year we lose or need to resign Zeus, Morin, Smith, Regin, Brookbank, Khabi, Raanta, Labarbera, & PMB.  Assuming none resign that's $9.5475M freed, and $6.030833M taken up by extensions, giving us a shade over 3.5M plus the difference in next year's cap to this year's.  We also have 20 guys signed into next year--the only critical position is a backup goaltender to resign. 

 

So, for the 3.5M of spare space plus going into next year....

Our RFA's our currently making:

Raanta .925M

Morin .735M

Smith .5625M

 

Our UFA's are currently making:

PMB: 2M 

Labarbera 1M

Khabi 1.7M

Brookbank 1.25M

Regin .375M

Zeus 1M

 

The questions are:

1) Do we really need to re-sign *any* of the UFA's?

2) With Labarbera making 1M and Raanta an RFA, how much more will he really make?

3) Smith is the most deserving of a raise of the RFA guys, but how much more than .525M will he realistically get?

4) Will Raanta and Smith, and possibly Morin, really cost more than $3.5M+ than what they are making now?

 

I honestly don't think Crawford or Seabs are going anywhere this summer.  I think we can fit everyone needed over the summer even if the cap wasn't going up, and I can see Bickell and Oduya dropped beforre Crawford and Seabs--especially since Oduya's going into a contract year next year.</p></blockquote>


Where does Bickell "drop" to?

 

[Variable]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="puckjim" data-cid="225305" data-time="1397074589">
<div>


Why would they trade Crawford after just re-signing him?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


Because the Blackhawks aren't a team that needs to pay their goalie 6 million a year. Leave that to teams like Edmonton or Toronto. Doesn't mean I think he's going to be traded, or that its realistic to expect that, just that he is a whole hell of a lot more replaceable on this team than Seabrook is.</p>

 

[puckjim]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="225317" data-time="1397086140">

Because the Blackhawks aren't a team that needs to pay their goalie 6 million a year. Leave that to teams like Edmonton or Toronto. Doesn't mean I think he's going to be traded, or that its realistic to expect that, just that he is a whole hell of a lot more replaceable on this team than Seabrook is.</p></blockquote>


Really?


Which goalie can give you those numbers at a better price?

 

[Variable]

Probably quite a bit. Gotta understand, goalies are so dependent on the team in front of them. With a puck possession team like the Hawks are, goalies that may "look" bad on other teams, would be fine on a team like the Hawks. A guy like Anton Khudobin was out there for the taking last off season. You could probably cut that 6 million cap hit of Crawford's in half and be fine in goal with the style of play the Hawks use. Big, long term goalie contracts are pretty much the thing nightmares are made of in today's NHL.</p>

 

[puckjim]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="225319" data-time="1397094288">

Probably quite a bit. Gotta understand, goalies are so dependent on the team in front of them. With a puck possession team like the Hawks are, goalies that may "look" bad on other teams, would be fine on a team like the Hawks. A guy like Anton Khudobin was out there for the taking last off season. You could probably cut that 6 million cap hit of Crawford's in half and be fine in goal with the style of play the Hawks use. Big, long term goalie contracts are pretty much the thing nightmares are made of in today's NHL.</p></blockquote>


Yeah, right.


Crawford should have won the Conn Smythe, but you're replacing him with Anton Khudobin.


Please.

 

[Variable]

Well see Jim, in order to even have this discussion with you, you have to tell me if you agree that goalies are very dependent on the quality of team in front of them or not. If the answer is no, this is pointless.  Because this is the same guy you're talking about who should've won the Conn Smythe and justifying the  contract the Hawks gave him off of that when the season before after Phoenix and those horrible OT goals he gave up, people would've liked to have never seen him with the Hawks again. Because no one would've come out and said after that they'd expect him to be in the running for the Conn Smythe the very next season. So.....you understand my caution here with these overreactions and me having to ask you that question.</p>