Educating Our Children, Private Schools Doing More With Less

[R K]

I am also a product of the public school system and I disagree that there is no difference in the quality of education between public and private overall.

Really it's what you do with the "education" portion of that when you have the chance. That's 100% individual. I still would prefer to teach my children the basics of life without someone throwing in other, more powerful beliefs. I hate to bring up religion but what do you think a Catholic School teaches? They teach Catholosism. They preach what "they" believe in as well as the "educational" portion.



I loved the school district I grew up in. So much my SON went there through 5th grade as well. Even had two of the same teachers!



To each his own. Public School exposes children to so much more than the "protected" private school.





Only those who can afford it can use the "Private" school system.

 

[MassHavoc]

Ignorance is believing only one news source. Fox is news just like MSNBC, CNN, HNN, etc. If you are not watching all of them then you are only getting some news. The fact that your numbers are not identical to story I linked to proves that there is a disparity and still a significant one at that.

Except my numbers come from the department of Ed. Who spends more money than any of those organizations to do surveys and collect information to answer these exact things. And yet you still sidestep everything I've previously stated and have someone derailed this into a argument about fox news. Congrats Bully.

 

[IceHogsFan]

According to the Illinois State Board of Education, in 2007 the state average score was 20.3 out of 36, which does not include private or special-purpose schools. Rockford School District’s average was 18.6.

 

[Pez68]

Oh damn we are all fucked!

Kidding aside I dropped out of PUBLIC HIGHSCHOOL.... Went on for two Bachelors a Masters and scored in the 98th percentile in the COUNTRY on the LSAT.



Public School in the Northern Suburbs of Chicago, was and I believe still is one of the BEST educationals systems in the Country.



Why? Because they have the property tax revenue to be so. The largest difference in many of the "Public School" scenarios is the INCOME directly paid to the system itself through Property Taxes.

The difference in public schools is largely inflated too though. This is mostly because of the neighborhoods feeding into the schools. Obviously the lower class neighborhoods are going to test lower, because they have a higher percentage of drop outs, gang members, etc. How is that really an indicator of the quality of education though? Doesn't the majority of that burden rest with the parents, their upbringing, and their environment? Obviously schools in nicer neighborhoods, where life is easier, more comfortable, and safer, are going to have test scores that reflect this.

 

[R K]

The difference in public schools is largely inflated too though. This is mostly because of the neighborhoods feeding into the schools. Obviously the lower class neighborhoods are going to test lower, because they have a higher percentage of drop outs, gang members, etc. How is that really an indicator of the quality of education though? Doesn't the majority of that burden rest with the parents, their upbringing, and their environment? Obviously schools in nicer neighborhoods, where life is easier, more comfortable, and safer, are going to have test scores that reflect this.

Private Schools, especially those such as Catholic, have an agenda. It's not just to educate the children in the basic skills of Math, Science, English and History. It's to promote their way or belief in life.



Sorry IHF to make this religious but in the manner of Private Catholic Schools, it is 100%.

 

[R K]

IHF remove CPS from that equation and let me know what the test scores are then.

 

[Pez68]

To sum up my opinion, I think that education has a lot more to do with the parents and the individual student, than the teachers, the school, or the funding. If you don't teach your kids to do their best, work hard, and keep on plugging away until they get something right, they're not going to do well in school. If you don't stress the importance of education, none of this shit matters. Doesn't matter how "highly rated" their school is, or how much you pay for it.



I had friends that were extremely smart, but they ended up being colossal underachievers. Why? Their parents were never home, they didn't pay attention to what they were doing, and their kids ran around town instead of going home and taking care of their school work first. They fucked off in school, instead of learning. They came to school high in high school, so learned nothing. It had nothing to do with the teachers, or the school, and everything to do with the parents.

 

[IceHogsFan]

Illinois Private Schools By County

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

This will sound ass backwards cause I've lost all faith in organized religion, but if I raise a family in Beverly they will go to St. Barnabas. There is nothing wrong with 4 generations of my family going to the same school and even though you get "brainwashed", it does not stick at all. I did however pick out the points I see as great, still do community service and always will. Catholic schools are very good in my opinion, hell I still go to one, but the religion factor is not really a factor. But in terms of high school, the culture of going to an all boys (insert jokes) high school is pretty fucking hilarious, the most outrageous things that have ever happened in classrooms happened in front of my eyes, ask Shoots He Scores or GeneFoley they were they with me. I no joke had zero problem going to school throughout my time at Rice, everyday whether it was a kid picking up a dollar with shit all over it, a 75 year old teacher spitting on a kid, a 4'10'' British teacher class getting so out of hand deans were called daily, the hottest teacher in the school getting mauled by a death ball, blockades etc......good stuff happened also. And although I did little to no homework, much like I am doing now in college, I still learned a shit ton.



Also I still wish teachers were allowed to discipline physically, that or fights were an accepted part of going through school, and no not the fights where some poor kid just gets pummeled for no reason, planned fights where two kids agree and you go somewhere. We had a ton when I was at St. Barnabas, everyone settled there differences, no one was seriously hurt other than black eye or fat lip, and it was over. At Brother Rice shit hit the fan when kids would fight, other kids would get involved just a lot of pussification of the whole one on one point of a fight. Its dragged on the same way here at college, except kids are a hell of a lot bigger and consequences can be downright scary with some of the fights that happen here, still fun as shit to witness though.

 

[IceHogsFan]

To sum up my opinion, I think that education has a lot more to do with the parents and the individual student, than the teachers, the school, or the funding. If you don't teach your kids to do their best, work hard, and keep on plugging away until they get something right, they're not going to do well in school. If you don't stress the importance of education, none of this shit matters. Doesn't matter how "highly rated" their school is, or how much you pay for it.



I had friends that were extremely smart, but they ended up being colossal underachievers. Why? Their parents were never home, they didn't pay attention to what they were doing, and their kids ran around town instead of going home and taking care of their school work first. They fucked off in school, instead of learning. They came to school high in high school, so learned nothing. It had nothing to do with the teachers, or the school, and everything to do with the parents.

100% Agree



When you take that into consideration and you have parents that are involved and you are striving for their best education then you may consider a private or charter school to achieve that. We all want what is best for our children and some schools are certainly better then others depending on where you reside. Believe me, I know parents at my daughters school that are not role models, are not involved in their childrens lives and think that just throwing them into the private school system will make up for their lack of parental skills and it is sadly not going to happen.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

To sum up my opinion, I think that education has a lot more to do with the parents and the individual student, than the teachers, the school, or the funding. If you don't teach your kids to do their best, work hard, and keep on plugging away until they get something right, they're not going to do well in school. If you don't stress the importance of education, none of this shit matters. Doesn't matter how "highly rated" their school is, or how much you pay for it.



I had friends that were extremely smart, but they ended up being colossal underachievers. Why? Their parents were never home, they didn't pay attention to what they were doing, and their kids ran around town instead of going home and taking care of their school work first. They fucked off in school, instead of learning. They came to school high in high school, so learned nothing. It had nothing to do with the teachers, or the school, and everything to do with the parents.

I was a pot head in high school, and only did that once. Bro Toole's chemistry lasted about 3 extra hours due to reefer, also hard to contain laughter when you looked at his Special person shoes.

 

[IceHogsFan]

I was a pot head in high school, and only did that once. Bro Toole's chemistry lasted about 3 extra hours due to reefer, also hard to contain laughter when you looked at his Special person shoes.

Your responses have surprised me PSR.



You definitely are a puzzle. Keeping in mind I grew up in the burbs and went to Hinsdale South and Lockport. My cousin (non-catholic family) was also a graduate of Rice. Back in the 80's he had some interesting stories to share of the brothers there.

 

[R K]

I was a pot head in high school, and only did that once. Bro Toole's chemistry lasted about 3 extra hours due to reefer, also hard to contain laughter when you looked at his Special person shoes.

I was a stoner in high school as well. Folllowed the Dead for a while in both high school and college. Those experiences for me are part of the reason I am so successful now. Without a doubt.

 

[IceHogsFan]

I was a stoner in high school as well. Folllowed the Dead for a while in both high school and college. Those experiences for me are part of the reason I am so successful now. Without a doubt.

You definitely missed your generation of tuning in, dropping out, etc...



Quite being a bully and changing the discussion.

 

[R K]

You definitely missed your generation of tuning in, dropping out, etc...



Quite being a bully and changing the discussion.

 

[Shoots_he_scores]

PSR basically hit the nail on the head with my opinion too. They try to brainwash you to some degree, but honestly most of the people I know who went to catholic schools have stopped with the whole religion thing. They do teach you some better values as a person though. I especially think the all boys high school is a great idea, less things for teenage boys to get involved in during school. Not to mention the things we did in high school would never happen in a co-ed school.



And IHF some of the brothers at Rice, oh the stories we could tell.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

I went through 13 years of Catholic school, don't believe I was brain washed. One of the main things that is different is that there is more discipline

In the schools. You were also taught to respect others. I think that is two of the major things that public education lacks.

My father, who only taught in public schools for about 15 years, would completely agree. He hated that it became taboo to provide mentoring in respect and disciple....and that he had to just push kids through because it was too much of a hassle to hold them back or even try to correct the issues of a failing student.



I also agree about the parents needing to have more of an influence, but they are just another part of the equations. Kids are at school from quite a long period of their childhood...reinforcing respect and disciple are not bad things.



Ultimate it takes a village. The schools and parents are just a part of it, a large part albeit, but there are many parts.





Throwing money does not solve the issues, and unfortunately most of that money being thrown is so that educators and associated administrators are not "underpaid". We pay into Dist 214, and feed into Fremd H.S. At Fremd, 84% of the instructors make over 100k...





With drug testing, I did sports in HS. In order to participate we signed a waiver agreeing to a random test if asked. I really have no issue with it either, as I had to give piss that was going to be drug tested (limited), for the annual sports physical as well.

 

[TSD]

Good point. My daughter is also required to provide community service hours for each semester. So giving back and helping others without being paid teaches them of thinking outside of their "me" world. An example, she helped me for two hours after the storm shovel homes in our neighborhood which she can count for her hours.

I had to do that for high school.



It doesn't suprise me in the least catholic school students would be superior in a scholastic competition than "most" schools. Most of them come from decent homes with parents that support them in doing well. Not at all saying there are none in public schools, but you will simply encounter more bad students, parents arent going to send a kid to catholic school if hes getting shit grades.



I dont think cost per student is so simple. it depends on the school. The catholic school I went to until 6th grade taught k-8 it was a small 3 floor box attached to a church, and 1 teacher per grade(1 teacher taught every subject each grade), and had like crap for facilities. The jr. high I went to in the ghetto had a better computer lab, gym, teachers(who taught only one subject, so it only taught 3 grades but had 8 or 9 teachers. The kids just came from shit and most didnt give a crap, while in my opinion I think I got a better education from the public school, it starts with the students themselves. So comparing those two schools, it doesn't surprise me public school may cost more per student than private, despite on a whole under-performing by comparison to private school counterparts.

Illinois Private Schools By County

Hey the one I went to still exists.



St. Mary Nativity School, Joliet

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

Your responses have surprised me PSR.



You definitely are a puzzle. Keeping in mind I grew up in the burbs and went to Hinsdale South and Lockport. My cousin (non-catholic family) was also a graduate of Rice. Back in the 80's he had some interesting stories to share of the brothers there.

Thing is I have a legion of friends from the same background who all share the ballpark of my views. On religion and other things. As I said they "brainwash" you, but there is really nothing to it, when your in grammar school and high school the last thing on your mind is theology. Theology was always the guaranteed B or A class while doing no work. I mean theology at Brother Rice when your a junior was long before I got there and remains to this day a film class, literally all you do is watch movies and write papers on them, I still have them all on my computer back home, what does "The Hustler" have to do with god, it just doesn't, great movie and glad we got to watch it but completely irrelevant to a Catholic education. Most had little to do with theology, so I mean there's little argument that we were being brainwashed. And senior year I had a great teacher teach me "World Religions", I brought in George Harrison's All Things Must Pass album and we meditated to it when studying Hinduism. We also got to go yoga for 2 days with a hot yoga teacher, that was a great day.



I mean really private schools are better for a number of reasons IMO, also public school was not a choice for high school in my district, would have attended Rice regardless though. So it may appear that I am a puzzle, but in reality when I post things on why illegal immigration doesn't bother me it relates straight back to the fact that all I was ever taught was that I am no better than anyone, especially those not doing harm. Also on top of working with others on jobs, doing charity work with and for them with churches in little mexico paints a much different picture than you'd see on the news or in that article, I mean "evil people who are criminals for living here" just grinds my gears. And the fact that I don't subscribe to any religion goes back to the fact that after learning about the other main religions of the world you see what is wrong with the petty bullshit, who said what, if God ever said that, its all the same message, half the world believes in the same God, yet way to many people are being done wrong for that to be the case.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

Good point. My daughter is also required to provide community service hours for each semester. So giving back and helping others without being paid teaches them of thinking outside of their "me" world. An example, she helped me for two hours after the storm shovel homes in our neighborhood which she can count for her hours.

Yea that stuffs good but at Rice no one was serious about it. One of the few things I am proud of from high school, and even though it was forced by my dad, was the fact that every friday morning, freshman to senior year in the winters we'd wake up at 5 and go work at the homeless shelter til I went to school at 7:40. Awful thought to think of that 5 o'clock number, but when I'm back I still find myself back there.



Again going back to religion (sorry to harp on it), but my dad is a hardcore Catholic, as are the most of the 300+ families in our parish. Yet when it comes time to help others than their peers and those they feel comfortable helping with, well there is usually about 5 workers at the shelter, 2 show up to go to the food dispensary (to help out in the dirty ghetto with criminals), 10 show up to do baskets for Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter. To me it doesn't add up, Barnabas is insanely well off and people barely go to church to begin with, but then the church crowd gets even thinner (down to the single digit percentile) when it comes time to do what the man the praise would have done, there is something wrong, EXTREMELY WRONG. So I mean by all means go to church, doesn't bother me, went every sunday til college, but do something about it. And the excuses can poor out why people don't help, but if you got the stories of the people who do they won't hold water.