Former Broncos GM says Bears finally are doing right by Jay Cutler

[proton]

fact of the matter...WHICH NO ONE is willing to say..............jay is NOT Kurt Warner. jay was NOT smart enuff to run Martz' "O".

Perhaps if Jay had Orlando Pace in his prime at LT giving him the extra time to throw to the outstanding Rams WR's he could have run the Martz offense. But he had neither things.

 

[Bearly]

"‘‘Make-or-break year? Yeah, probably,’’ Sundquist said. ‘‘When [Emery] sits back at the end of the season and says, ‘Do I extend him? Is this the direction that we’re going to go for another couple of years?’ it will have a lot to do with how this particular formula of players and coaches ends up producing this year.’’


:smh:.........how about, HOW jay produces

I thought Jay was a player.

 

[Bearly]

Perhaps if Jay had Orlando Pace in his prime at LT giving him the extra time to throw to the outstanding Rams WR's he could have run the Martz offense. But he had neither things.

Either was Warner once he was getting the shit kicked out of him. Took him 3 years to get his MOJO back from the shell shock. Bulger played well for a bit and than suffered the same fate. That O kills QBs and these guys had a great Oline.

Both Warner and Bulger had 3 years before going to total shit for 3 more. This with associated players groomed for it. The pressure and beating gets to them.

"2002–03 seasons
Warner began the 2002 season as the Rams' starter, but he played poorly, throwing seven interceptions against only one touchdown as the team went 0–3. In the Rams' fourth game, this one against the Dallas Cowboys, Warner broke a finger on his throwing hand. Warner attempted to come back later in the season, but his injury allowed him to play only two more games (both losses). In contrast to his 103.4 career passer rating entering the season, Warner posted a minuscule 67.4 rating in 2002. The following season, Warner was replaced as the Rams' starting quarterback for good after fumbling six times in the team's opening-day game against the New York Giants. Warner later revealed that he had previously broken his hand and that it had not fully healed, making it more difficult to grip the football."

 

[FirstTimer]

More like c for effort. They did try, but it was half assed there was no commitment from JA and Lovie was apparently incapable of holding up his end of bringing in OCs and developing who they did get.

All you have to do is compare 2 terminal deficiencies on the team: safeties and WRs. Bears selected a safety every draft for how many years? 7, 8?

That's not the saying. But whatever. Glad that's what you took away from that post.

 

[FirstTimer]

It's true but there wasn't an urgency either. Until this year, the only Olineman we drafted since Cutler arrived were Carimi at the end of 1 and Webb and LL in 7. We signed a couple backup Gs and Scott as well. Pace was a poor signing but as usual we were desperate. He was cut by a team to clear the same amount we paid for him. Yes it was to improve things but everyone knew Pace was a stop gap. We also didn't draft a WR before 3 until last year either. When Emery sees a problem he addresses it like he did the Oline this year and WRs last. JA and Lovie lacked urgency and decisiveness. How about TE. JA trades away Jay's favorite target and doesn't even draft another. Brought in 2 blocking TEs that didn't block that well for Martz.

The signed Orlando Pace almost immediately. I think it was the same day or the next day. You then go on to list a bunch of lineman the Bears drafted and signed. I would say the Bears signing Pace immediately "because they were desperate" was a sign of urgency.

 

[FirstTimer]

Trading Olsen away still kills me. So stupid. And its a perfect example of how O took a backseat to the D.

Bears generally bent over backwards to keep players that were good but not great on D. And then on O, they let literally the team's only decent red zone target and biggest receiving threat (after the freakin HB) go.

The Olsen trade had more to do with the OC the Bears brought in than anything else. I don't think it was O taking a backseat to the D I think it was getting rid of a player that Martz didn't really use in the offense.

 

[FirstTimer]

Well, some of those spectacular plays/throws also won a couple of games for the team too. My underlying point isn't about Jay being a bonehead or not. It's that he has no control over what the defense can/cannot do. If people are gonna start this argument about that season then we can make cases for the better players on the defense getting beaten like a drum and giving up TD's.

It's also the same argument about Jay(or any QB), too much credit & too much blame.

:dontsay:

 

[FirstTimer]

Is it any coincidence that Martz was probably the one coach Jay has had in Chicago that he actually trusted because he could coach?

Yeah. Jay trusted Martz so much he actively helped get him run out of town.

 

[Bearly]

....then he wasn't worth 2, 1st round picks

Really? Pick 2 of our last 10 1st round picks that you'd rather have. Rex,Tommie Harris, and Olsen were the best. Jury still out on Shea and Long. You can complain about JAs drafting etc but this isn't just 2 consecutive picks. This is picking the best 2 of 10. Typical fan not understanding the value of draft picks.

 

[FirstTimer]

Cutty didn't fire him...

Actually.............


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/05/cutler-was-in-favor-of-martzs-firing/

In Chicago, Jay Cutler’s relationship with Mike Martz helped push Martz out the door. Martz “retired” but his contract was up this month. He wasn’t going to be brought back.

In a report that is sure to be denied by Cutler eventually, Brad Biggs of the Chicago Tribune writes that Cutler met with coach Lovie Smith Tuesday to let Smith know he was in favor of “moving on without Martz.”

 

[FirstTimer]

Jay got hurt in the 10th game of the year in 2011 and didn't play again that season. He had 2319 yards, 13tds, and 7 ints through ten games with an insanely easy schedule to finish the season. If you extrapolate his stats out for an entire season, he was on pace for 3712 yards, 21 tds, and 11 ints. That would have been his best yardage and td/int ratio since his arrival in Chicago.

Unless you believe all of that is just because Martz was some genius play-caller and that Jay's mechanics didn't improve at all then it clearly shows he was adapting to Martz's teaching.

Man. Color me impressed!

 

[Bearly]

It's still not like he had final say. If he did, perhaps it should be looked at as another Lovie failing instead of excuse for him. Says here he talked to Lovie and not the GM. maybe Lovie was just checking in with Jay before letting Martz go to see if he could be talked out of it. If you recall, somebody was getting fired after that finish with Jay on the mend and I suspect Lovie was making sure it wasn't Lovie.

 

[FirstTimer]

Yeah because taking out an O and substituting an "ff" in enough is a real time saver. I actually have a Master's degree but I mean whatever.

There's never really been a question to Jay's work ethic either. Try to find something with a basis in reality to bitch about instead of just being a typical whiny bitch.

Are Community Colleges giving out Master's Degree's now?

 

[FirstTimer]

It's still not like he had final say. If he did, perhaps it should be looked at as another Lovie failing instead of excuse for him. Says here he talked to Lovie and not the GM. maybe Lovie was just checking in with Jay before letting Martz go to see if he could be talked out of it. If you recall, somebody was getting fired after that finish with Jay on the mend and I suspect Lovie was making sure it wasn't Lovie.

I never said he did.

Why would he talk to the GM? The GM doesn't hire and fire assistants in the NFL. The HC has control of his staff for hirings and firings. That's the way it works, especially with a tenured coach like Smith.

It's like this board has no concept of how NFL organizations are run.

 

[Bearly]

Man. Color me impressed!

Jay's mechanics regressed a bit last year. I hated to see it but it seemed like he was just winging it in general. There's no doubt that he needs a strong mentor.

 

[FirstTimer]

And Cutler still sucked after getting Marshall. Go figure.

I think the misperception of the Angelo era is that he didn't try to give Cutler weapons and protection. I think Angelo did try by using high draft picks on guys like Olsen, Williams, Carimi...Benson was already there, Forte was later drafted...but most of these picks sucked. It seemed like Angelo was against spending a premium pick on a WR, so he would use mid-round picks on guys like Mark Bradley, and most of those mid round WRs were absolute garabage.

EDIT: I see this had already been discussed. My bad.

Williams and Bradley were drafted before Cutler got to Chicago but yeah...same concept. Look at Knox etc

 

[Bearly]

I never said he did.

Why would he talk to the GM? The GM doesn't hire and fire assistants in the NFL. The HC has control of his staff for hirings and firings. That's the way it works, especially with a tenured coach like Smith.

It's like this board has no concept of how NFL organizations are run.

Quote Originally Posted by Willis1524 View Post
Cutty didn't fire him...

"Actually............."


Sure you did. Of course I understand the hierarchy and if he goes to Lovie, it's ultimately Lovie's decision. He'd have to go the tell the GM to go over Lovies head and be responsible for the firing of Martz as you implied. I thought that perhaps you didn't understand. Lovie had control but like I said, somebody was not coming back. The GM had a hand in that part. I personally think Lovie's job was on the line if he insisted on bringng back Martz. You do understand that the GM can fire the head coach or do you think that's Cutler fired JA as well?

You make a lot of I'm not saying, I'm just saying kind of posts.

 

[Bearly]

Is it any coincidence that Martz was probably the one coach Jay has had in Chicago that he actually trusted because he could coach?

This. Even if he didn't like the playcalling etc. He recognized Martz's grasp.

 

[FirstTimer]

Sure I do but if he goes to Lovie, it's ultimately Lovie's decision. He'd have to go the tell the GM to go over Lovies head and be responsible for the firing of Martz as you implied. I thought that perhaps you didn't understand. Lovie had control but like I said, somebody was not coming back. The GM had a hand in that part. I personally think Lovie's job was on the line if he insisted on bringng back Martz.

:dontsay:

Why would Lovie's job be on the line if he brought Martz back? The Bears were playing well under Martz until Cutler got hurt. Hanie, an Angelo "guy"(who Martz fucking hated and didn't want anyways) came in, sucked, and basically cost the Bears a playoff birth. Angelo's job should have been on the line because he wanted Caleb Hanie on the roster. Martz was right about Hanie. Angelo whiffed.

Talk about revisionist history. If Cutler and Martz got along and Cutler had gone to Smith in support of Martz I have a feeling Martz is still coaching the Bears offense in 2012.

 

[FirstTimer]

This. Even if he didn't like the playcalling etc. He recognized Martz's grasp.

Good call. That's why Cutler went to Smith telling him to fire Martz.