Game of Thrones Thread

[remydat]

FTR Jamie is a very different character in the books.... he certainly grows and becomes more sympathetic as the book story moves along.

Also IIRC the last you hear of Jamie in the books, Brienne shows up where he is camped outside Riverrun and then they disappear together.

I think Cersei hears this from someone as she is either in captivity or awaiting her trial.

I got the feeling Martin wasn't steering Jamie as a character towards simply returning and going back to being the same old Jamie banging his sister.

Yes agreed he is slightly different in the books although I would still say it's not a matter of growth but simply which aspect of his personality is being presented. In short, Jaime is chivalrous in general but a coward/impotent when it comes to his family and sister in particular. He's been that way from the start and nothing has really changed. Away from his sister, you see the chivalry come out more but once he is back around his sister, the cowardice and impotence returns.

There is no real growth there until he grows the balls to stand up to his sister which remains to be seen.

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

On one hand that battle showed fear but on other hand when they saw their people being burned alive it showed sadness maybe some disgust. Can lose respect trying to gain allies. Can't see everyone pussying out cause of dragons. Might embolden the strong to come up with another tactic to kill them.

 

[remydat]

I agree with this assessment completely. While it might not have crippled the Lannister forces, it dealt them a blow, and at the moment they are in the wholly shit, what are we going to do against that phase. The look of pure horror on Jamies face was priceless. Not to mention, Dany only brought one dragon, imagine what three can do.

If it were to have taken out more than half the Lannister forces, as a few here seem to think, the show would almost be over, and Cersei would almost be forced to surrender now. I don't think D & D plan on removing their major antagonist this early in the game.

Well the fundamental issue is they needed reinforcements before this attack hence why Cersei needed to repay the Iron Bank so they could loan her money for more men. So this attack still weakened her forces period as she really doesn't have the numbers to take any kind of losses.

And now her fate it would seem is dependent on Dany not wanting to raze the city, the Iron Bank lending her more money to raise an army after hearing what one dragon did, Euro Greyjoy coming to her rescue, or her ability to get someone to betray her enemies.

In short, she doesn't really control her own destiny in so much as her fate is dependent on getting someone else to help her.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

He's tried to teach her his game for much of their interactions. Hell he just did so again recently when he talked about everyone being an enemy and a friend and how one should fight every battle simultaneously. She'd have to be pretty stupid not to have gained some insight from the man considering all the pearls of wisdom he's dropped on her.

I wouldn't paint him as her teacher. Taught her what he needed to in order so she didn't fuck up his plans to gain power for himself. The only thing he really taught her is how to deal with a conniving prick with a Napoleonic complex. She has no more trust or respect for him as made obvious by her recent sarcastic replies to him including the big burn, “No need to seize the last word, Lord Baelish. I’ll assume it was something clever.”

Knowing she has no trust left in him, he'll try to oust her until Bran spills the dirt on him and they decide to oust him for good.


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[remydat]

I wouldn't paint him as her teacher. Taught her what he needed to in order so she didn't fuck up his plans to gain power for himself. The only thing he really taught her is how to deal with a conniving prick with a Napoleonic complex. She has no more trust or respect for him as made obvious by her recent sarcastic replies to him including the big burn, “No need to seize the last word, Lord Baelish. I’ll assume it was something clever.”

Knowing she has no trust left in him, he'll try to oust her until Bran spills the dirt on him and they decide to oust him for good.

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That's not really true at all. He's told her stuff that wasn't necessary. Further he has still been instructing her even after he knew she distrusts him as he advised her again about fighting every battle simultaneously. His instruction is not dependent on her trust or respect because he's obsessed with her or more precisely the idea of her.

He is living out his Catelyn Stark fantasy with Sansa. That will ultimately be his downfall. If he had remained as objective and cutthroat as he usually is with everyone else then Jon Snow would be dead and Sansa would probably be Queen of the North after his Vale armies routed Ramsey in the aftermath of the Battle of the Bastards.

It is precisely because of his obsession with Sansa that he's telling her things he would not otherwise reveal and he's doing things the would not otherwise have done.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

He's tried to teach her his game for much of their interactions. Hell he just did so again recently when he talked about everyone being an enemy and a friend and how one should fight every battle simultaneously. She'd have to be pretty stupid not to have gained some insight from the man considering all the pearls of wisdom he's dropped on her.

More clever stuff, clever and meaningless.

Little Fucker has been the most overrated character in the show. His soul is required in hell..: and will be delivered there in less than 3 weeks, thankfully.


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[number51]

That's not really true at all. He's told her stuff that wasn't necessary. Further he has still been instructing her even after he knew she distrusts him as he advised her again about fighting every battle simultaneously. His instruction is not dependent on her trust or respect because he's obsessed with her or more precisely the idea of her.

He is living out his Catelyn Stark fantasy with Sansa. That will ultimately be his downfall. If he had remained as objective and cutthroat as he usually is with everyone else then Jon Snow would be dead and Sansa would probably be Queen of the North after his Vale armies routed Ramsey in the aftermath of the Battle of the Bastards.

It is precisely because of his obsession with Sansa that he's telling her things he would not otherwise reveal and he's doing things the would not otherwise have done.

5/10

He does have some special feelings for her, creepy AF but as genuine as Littlefinger is capable of being.

That being said he's not a mentor, teacher, unclebuddy or anything else, he is a selfish, ruthless, power hungry, dick. Sansa told Bran, Baelish will never give anyone anything with out wanting something in return. Sansa has learned by observing monsters like Cersi and Littlefinger, not because they were teaching her, they were just being themselves, and she was there.

One man's opinion.

Remy, I understand your take on this, and I respect your opinion, you may be right, his 'love' for Sansa may be his undoing. I just can't do the 5 pages of back and forth.

Let's call it 100 posts, for those non default 20 posts per page guys.

 

[xer0h0ur]

Fuck that. Remy always thinks we have to take his opinions to be fact. Fuck off. Your interpretation is merely that. Yours.

 

[Ares]

Fuck that. Remy always thinks we have to take his opinions to be fact. Fuck off. Your interpretation is merely that. Yours.

Lemon peppa yo wangs homie....

Also I have to post it cause leaked episode 4 reminded me...

 

[remydat]

More clever stuff, clever and meaningless.

Little Fucker has been the most overrated character in the show. His soul is required in hell..: and will be delivered there in less than 3 weeks, thankfully.

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Not meaningless at all. Sansa was a naive idiot before him.

5/10

He does have some special feelings for her, creepy AF but as genuine as Littlefinger is capable of being.

That being said he's not a mentor, teacher, unclebuddy or anything else, he is a selfish, ruthless, power hungry, dick. Sansa told Bran, Baelish will never give anyone anything with out wanting something in return. Sansa has learned by observing monsters like Cersi and Littlefinger, not because they were teaching her, they were just being themselves, and she was there.

One man's opinion.

Remy, I understand your take on this, and I respect your opinion, you may be right, his 'love' for Sansa may be his undoing. I just can't do the 5 pages of back and forth.

Let's call it 100 posts, for those non default 20 posts per page guys.

We don't have to go back and forth because nothing you said here actually contradicts anything I said. Being a teacher/mentor does not preclude one from being a selfish, ruthless, power hungry, dick.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/teaches

You are imagining some mutually exclusive dynamic between being a teacher and douche that is not actually present. One can be both.

Fuck that. Remy always thinks we have to take his opinions to be fact. Fuck off. Your interpretation is merely that. Yours.

Except it's not an interpretation at all. I am curious as to what you guys are calling an interpretation. The only response to my posts have been people crying about how LF is a douche which is irrelevant. I've had plenty of teachers that I hated and thought were douchebags.

And leave all the personal commentary out of it. Swooping in to complain about me when we are discussing fictional characters is a bit much don't you think. Particularly when it is devoid of any actual rebuttal to what I am saying.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Not meaningless at all. Sansa was a naive idiot before him.
.

Maybe she grew up over the years. Learned more from the Lannisters than loser LF. If you saw a teacher/student thing going on between them, i dont know what you were watching.


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[xer0h0ur]

The interpretation comment was with regard to Jamie. Just because you see his character arc that way doesn't mean that is what it is.

 

[remydat]

Maybe she grew up over the years. Learned more from the Lannisters than loser LF. If you saw a teacher/student thing going on between them, i dont know what you were watching.

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Wait what? Are you suggesting a person can have more than one teacher. Shocking. Don't know where I suggested otherwise. I was probably watching the episodes where LF explained the Game to her when she questioned him about various things. In so doing, he was imparting knowledge to her.

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

The second littlefinger gave Sansa to the bastard was when she took control over her own life. She learned from experience and she has experienced allot. I can't underestimate littlefinger ever but it seems it's Sansa now manipulating lf not the other way around. But I keep going back to how good of is ar playing the game of thrones. The wild card is bran who lf never could have planned for a stark soothsayer. Is this how he finally loses or does he even manipulate bran

 

[remydat]

The interpretation comment was with regard to Jamie. Just because you see his character arc that way doesn't mean that is what it is.

Oh I never said otherwise. Some people gave their opinion and I countered with mine. Not sure what the problem is. I think that's just basic discourse. We aren't all going to agree on our interpretation of characters. I simply stated that he's the same guy since the beginning. If you want to give an example of how he's grown then feel free. If you don't think it's worth it then that's fine too.

I just don't see the point of getting bent out of shape about it and devolving into a personal attack over our opinions on fictional characters. Lighten up Francis.

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

Wait what? Are you suggesting a person can have more than one teacher. Shocking. Don't know where I suggested otherwise. I was probably watching the episodes where LF explained the Game to her when she questioned him about various things. In so doing, he was imparting knowledge to her.

Is he imparting knowledge to her or manipulating her?

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Wait what? Are you suggesting a person can have more than one teacher. Shocking. Don't know where I suggested otherwise. I was probably watching the episodes where LF explained the Game to her when she questioned him about various things. In so doing, he was imparting knowledge to her.

Oh, that's what he was doing when he killed her aunt and forced her to marry a madman who viciously raped her. Pfff, and I thought he was just using her.


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[nc0gnet0]

Maybe she grew up over the years. Learned more from the Lannisters than loser LF. If you saw a teacher/student thing going on between them, i dont know what you were watching.


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I agree with this, if Sansa has learned anything, it is from Cersei. I don't see Sansa manipulating people under false pretense, as this would be what she would have learned from LF.

I'm not so sure LF was so much into teaching Sansa, as opposed to trying to gain her trust/ear. I guess Sansa did learn a little from LF come to think of it, as she played him brilliantly to get the Vale forces when she needed them (although she should have never kept that from Jon).

 

[nc0gnet0]

Oh I never said otherwise. Some people gave their opinion and I countered with mine. Not sure what the problem is. I think that's just basic discourse. We aren't all going to agree on our interpretation of characters. I simply stated that he's the same guy since the beginning. If you want to give an example of how he's grown then feel free. If you don't think it's worth it then that's fine too.

I just don't see the point of getting bent out of shape about it and devolving into a personal attack over our opinions on fictional characters. Lighten up Francis.

There is a definite redemption arc in the books, as GRMM has said as much. You can argue it is not was well portrayed in the show version, and I could agree with you, but it is still there. But there is no question that he is not without hope, but he is still torn between love and doing the right thing.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

There is a definite redemption arc in the books, as GRMM has said as much. You can argue it is not was well portrayed in the show version, and I could agree with you, but it is still there. But there is no question that he is not without hope, but he is still torn between love and doing the right thing.

I think he's real close to getting over that love thing.


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