Game of Thrones Thread

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

Would they happen to be Russian hackers lol

 

[remydat]

Lysa is batshit crazy and Petyr had been fostered with Lysa and Catelyn Tully. He loved Catelyn since childhood just as Lysa fell in love with Petyr. He almost committed to certain death wanting to fight Ned's brother Brandon to marry her. She wanted to marry Brandon and asked he spare Petyr's life so he left him with a scar to remember him by. Naval to collarbone as he described it. That was a valuable lesson for Littlefinger as he learned that he would never win as a fighter but instead had to rely on his wit.

I don't see the unattainable part you're referencing. He basically made his plays to try to get Catelyn and now he's been making his plays to try to get Sansa which clearly reminds him greatly of his lost love. Sansa isn't exactly giving him the complete cold shoulder either. A part of me thinks he has snuck far enough into her head that its still a possibility.

Catelyn was unattainable because she didn't love him back. It was unrequited. He had Lyssa head over heels for him but he wanted Catelyn. And I'm saying if Sansa was just a dim witted girl who couldn't play the game then he would have lost interest in her. His interest in teaching her is to make her a worthy prize for him. He doesn't want a Lyssa that would do whatever he wants. He wants someone fierce and independent like Catelyn who in the end chooses him.

The unattainable bit comes in because the more Sansa learns and grows, the less likely she will end up choosing him because she will see him for who he is. So in essence, LF's love is doomed because all the things he does to make Sansa a worthy prize are the very things that will eventually drive her away from him.

Of course that is just my read of the situation. Not saying it is fact and I could obviously be dead wrong.

 

[nc0gnet0]

No it's more that I don't think it's a question of growth. It's a question of the more time he is shown without Cersei as a motivation, the better he looks. So all that has changed over the seasons is that he's been shown interacting with more people than just Cersei. At the start of the show he was portrayed a certain way to get the audience to view him as a villain but that was never the sum total of who he was in that moment. He's always been capable of both good and evil. Again I asked this earlier but explain to me using an example how you think he has grown?



So I guess where you said I Cersei and his family earlier. Cersei is obviously the primary factor but I also allowed that it's his family in general.

Not buying what exactly, I don't think remorse is required in this instance. His judgment is clouded when it comes to Cersei and his family. Why would he have remorse when ultimately he thinks he did something for Cersei or his family? I already said he's a douche in that regard.

However what does that have to do with how he behaves with Brienne when his family is not involved? That's the point. This is not growth. He can be a decent dude when his family and Cersei is not the focal point of his decisions or motivations.

you could not be more blatantly wrong, and if you can't see the difference between jamie season one, and jamie season 7, when the vast majority of viewers can, well, I am sorry. I won't deny the fact the Jamie has always had a dark side, the same can be said about the vast majority of characters on the show, that is what makes them so interesting. But we watch the characters grow, through their experiences. Your trying to say Jamie has had no growth.

Jamie in season one, without hesitation, without remorse, pushed a ten year old out the window, never thought twice about it. Jamie in season 7 did not jump up and immediately kill the servant girl who walked in on him and Cersei. He had remorse for the soldiers he killed from the Reach, while fighting for Cersie.

 

[number51]

You are not making much sene. LF teaching Sansa how to play the game is a fairly popular theory among fans.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3nrffi

Season 4 lol. Fix your calendar.

 

[remydat]

you could not be more blatantly wrong, and if you can't see the difference between jamie season one, and jamie season 7, when the vast majority of viewers can, well, I am sorry. I won't deny the fact the Jamie has always had a dark side, the same can be said about the vast majority of characters on the show, that is what makes them so interesting. But we watch the characters grow, through their experiences. Your trying to say Jamie has had no growth.

Jamie in season one, without hesitation, without remorse, pushed a ten year old out the window, never thought twice about it. Jamie in season 7 did not jump up and immediately kill the servant girl who walked in on him and Cersei. He had remorse for the soldiers he killed from the Reach, while fighting for Cersie.

What? In Season 7 Cersei is Queen and makes it quite clear that she doesn't give a fuck who knows about them sleeping together. He does nothing because everyone already knows the rumors and they are not at risk because she just finished killing the High Sparrow and anyone who could question their affair. In season 1, Cersei is married to the King and if anyone found out about them, they likely would be killed.

So what you are calling growth is simply a change in circumstance and power. And you wonder why I question this idea of growth. The difference in those two situations is not growth, it's power. You literally picked the worst example to try and prove your point.

In season one, if Robert was dead, Cersei was Queen with the High Sparrow blown to bits, all Jamie would have done to Bran would be to tell him to fetch them some wine.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Great that's two examples? What about all the other quotes? What about the below video where he is clearly instructing her by asking her questions about his motives.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3nrffi

He is literally talking about the killing of Joffery so that she can think through his motives and machinations as a teacher would. He's not just answering questions. He could have simply said yes he killed Joffery but he goes through the trouble of having her explain her thought process as to why she suspects him and who else she suspects. He goes through the trouble of telling her a man without a motive is a man no one suspects. He talks to her about keeping his fools confused. There is no inherent benefit to him doing so. He could have explained this without revealing this info. He reveals it because he wants her to learn because again manipulation and learning are not mutually exclusive.

lol, you mean the video where he lets Sansa know that while he indeed did have a part in the killing of Joffrey, and in doing so he implicated her, basically making her his prisoner by stripping her away of any alternatives? Lol. There most certainly was a benefit to him.

 

[remydat]

Season 4 lol. Fix your calendar.

This response is odd. The topic was LF teaching Sansa which obviously would occur over several seasons. So not sure you concern with me picking an example from a given season. Were you confused in thinking the topic was limited to Season 7?

 

[nc0gnet0]

What? In Season 7 Cersei is Queen and makes it quite clear that she doesn't give a fuck who knows about them sleeping together. He does nothing because everyone already knows the rumors and they are not at risk because she just finished killing the High Sparrow and anyone who could question their affair. In season 1, Cersei is married to the King and if anyone found out about them, they likely would be killed.

So what you are calling growth is simply a change in circumstance and power. And you wonder why I question this idea of growth. The difference in those two situations is not growth, it's power. You literally picked the worst example to try and prove your point.

In season one, if Robert was dead, Cersei was Queen with the High Sparrow blown to bits, all Jamie would have done to Bran would be to tell him to fetch them some wine.

If Robert was dead, Joffrey would be king, and had Joffrey found out, Jamie would be dead. But I digress, the events of the next few episodes will prove who is right or wrong, and enough said on that matter.

 

[number51]

This response is odd. The topic was LF teaching Sansa which obviously would occur over several seasons. So not sure you concern with me picking an example from a given season. Were you confused in thinking the topic was limited to Season 7?

Were you confused in thinking that LF is a teacher? He is not, he knows it, Sansa knows it, everybody knows it except you. I can't wait for the Hawk to weigh in, if he agrees with me I will switch over to your side.

 

[remydat]

lol, you mean the video where he lets Sansa know that while he indeed did have a part in the killing of Joffrey, in doing so he implicated her, basically making her his prisoner be stripping her any any alternatives? Lol. There most certainly was a benefit to him.

There was a benefit to him revealing how Joffery died but he could have simply said, "I killed Joffery using your necklace." In which case, the convo doesn't last 3-4 minutes. The convo last so long because he doesn't merely tell her but has her think through who could have helped him and why. That is what clues us in that he is trying to teach her. What had no inherent benefit was his comments about a man without a motive. He gives her far more information than she needs if his intent is merely to manipulate.

So you are confused. My argument is not either or. That's your argument. I'm telling you he is manipulating and teaching her at the same time. If he is not teaching her then explain logically why he would talk about a man without a motive or talk to her about keeping his fools confused? Again, those words have no inherent benefit beyond the fact he is saying those things so Sansa can learn.

 

[remydat]

Were you confused in thinking that LF is a teacher? He is not, he knows it, Sansa knows it, everybody knows it except you. I can't wait for the Hawk to weigh in, if he agrees with me I will switch over to your side.

If everyone knows it then how is it that the video I linked is titled.

Game of Thrones S04E04 - Littlefinger teaches Sansa how to play

I also love how the showrunners think LF is Sansa's teacher but apparently it's only me.

Benioff also provided some thoughts on why Sansa chose to go along with Littelfinger’s scheme. “Sansa started as such a naive innocent,” he said. “She’s been traumatized by what she’s seen and she spent almost a couple years in shell shock. At a certain point she’s either going to die or survive and become stronger. She’s chosen the latter option and she’s learned from an incredibly devious teacher in Littlefinger. The interesting thing about Littlefinger is he seems to have no almost no weaknesses aside from his affection for Sansa. He’s been obsessed with her since that early episode at the joust.”

http://ew.com/article/2015/04/26/game-thrones-sansa-ramsay-interview/

Like holy fuck. Now please, let me see how you go from everyone knows he's not her teacher to you trying to rationalize why one of the showrunners flat out says she's learned from a devious teacher in LF. But hey CCS knows more than the showrunners of course.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Lysa is batshit crazy and Petyr had been fostered with Lysa and Catelyn Tully. He loved Catelyn since childhood just as Lysa fell in love with Petyr. He almost committed to certain death wanting to fight Ned's brother Brandon to marry her. She wanted to marry Brandon and asked he spare Petyr's life so he left him with a scar to remember him by. Naval to collarbone as he described it. That was a valuable lesson for Littlefinger as he learned that he would never win as a fighter but instead had to rely on his wit.

I don't see the unattainable part you're referencing. He basically made his plays to try to get Catelyn and now he's been making his plays to try to get Sansa which clearly reminds him greatly of his lost love. Sansa isn't exactly giving him the complete cold shoulder either. A part of me thinks he has snuck far enough into her head that its still a possibility.

Huh? Sansa has given him nothing but the cold shoulder. He doesn't love her as he did her ugly ass mom. More like desire and would consider her a conquest. Other than that, he only sees what she could do for him not vice versa. His chances with her right now are sub zero.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[remydat]

http://ew.com/article/2015/04/03/game-thrones-sophie-turner-interview-season-5/

Oh and it's clear Sophie Turner thinks Sansa and LF have a certain dynamic and that they manipulate each other but no Sansa doesn't manipulate people despite the actress playing her saying she does.

 

[nc0gnet0]

There was a benefit to him revealing how Joffery died but he could have simply said, "I killed Joffery using your necklace." In which case, the convo doesn't last 3-4 minutes. The convo last so long because he doesn't merely tell her but has her think through who could have helped him and why. That is what clues us in that he is trying to teach her. What had no inherent benefit was his comments about a man without a motive. He gives her far more information than she needs if his intent is merely to manipulate.

So you are confused. My argument is not either or. That's your argument. I'm telling you he is manipulating and teaching her at the same time. If he is not teaching her then explain logically why he would talk about a man without a motive or talk to her about keeping his fools confused? Again, those words have no inherent benefit beyond the fact he is saying those things so Sansa can learn.

No, your confused, and I never said that Sansa hasn't learned anything from little finger, she obviously knows not to trust him, that he never gives anything without wanting something in return, so yup, teacher he is indeed. You can argue that LF is trying to teach Sansa, I can argue he is trying to impress as well as control her as his main motivation. And if he can't dazzle her with his brilliance he has the baffling her with his bullshit down pat. But we both agree that Sansa will be LF downfall, and we can argue to wits end as to his intent, and it will always be a matter of opinion.

 

[xer0h0ur]

Huh? Sansa has given him nothing but the cold shoulder. He doesn't love her as he did her ugly ass mom. More like desire and would consider her a conquest. Other than that, he only sees what she could do for him not vice versa. His chances with her right now are sub zero.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

She is in a position to completely ruin Littlefinger at any moment by simply telling the Vale bannermen that Petyr murdered Lysa because she was going to push her out the moon door. She hasn't. She also keeps accepting his counsel on day to day rule and sure she is showing him that she isn't the innocent little bird she once was but she isn't completely shutting him out. Lets not forget that she always has had dreams of being the queen. It would sure seem to me she is entertaining the idea of the possibility by leaving that door open should it go from eventuality to certainty. In that regard they are both using each other to an unspoken degree of agreement. Would there be actual love there? Nope. Probably not.

 

[nc0gnet0]

If everyone knows it then how is it that the video I linked is titled.

Game of Thrones S04E04 - Littlefinger teaches Sansa how to play

I also love how the showrunners think LF is Sansa's teacher but apparently it's only me.

Benioff also provided some thoughts on why Sansa chose to go along with Littelfinger’s scheme. “Sansa started as such a naive innocent,” he said. “She’s been traumatized by what she’s seen and she spent almost a couple years in shell shock. At a certain point she’s either going to die or survive and become stronger. She’s chosen the latter option and she’s learned from an incredibly devious teacher in Littlefinger. The interesting thing about Littlefinger is he seems to have no almost no weaknesses aside from his affection for Sansa. He’s been obsessed with her since that early episode at the joust.”

http://ew.com/article/2015/04/26/game-thrones-sansa-ramsay-interview/

Like holy fuck. Now please, let me see how you go from everyone knows he's not her teacher to you trying to rationalize why one of the showrunners flat out says she's learned from a devious teacher in LF. But hey CCS knows more than the showrunners of course.

Ahh, the great teacher, responsable for moments like this?

https://youtu.be/WC9Y4MiOS9c

To LF Sansa is a tool, not a student. And yes, she choose to fight, I already pointed this out, she had no other choice but to go with LF, something he made sure of.

 

[nc0gnet0]

http://ew.com/article/2015/04/03/game-thrones-sophie-turner-interview-season-5/

Oh and it's clear Sophie Turner thinks Sansa and LF have a certain dynamic and that they manipulate each other but no Sansa doesn't manipulate people despite the actress playing her saying she does.

Lol, reallying on the actors take, really? I could bring up other instances where the actors totally got things wrong.

 

[remydat]

No, your confused, and I never said that Sansa hasn't learned anything from little finger, she obviously knows not to trust him, that he never gives anything without wanting something in return, so yup, teacher he is indeed. You can argue that LF is trying to teach Sansa, I can argue he is trying to impress as well as control her as his main motivation. And if he can't dazzle her with his brilliance he has the baffling her with his bullshit down pat. But we both agree that Sansa will be LF downfall, and we can argue to wits end as to his intent, and it will always be a matter of opinion.

No you are still confused because you are still trying to imply my argument is that he is merely trying to teach her. No my argument is that he trying to teach and manipulate her. And sure I suppose it is opinion except one of the showrunners agrees with me so my opinion is backed up by someone with more credibility on this matter than either of us.

 

[nc0gnet0]

She is in a position to completely ruin Littlefinger at any moment by simply telling the Vale bannermen that Petyr murdered Lysa because she was going to push her out the moon door. She hasn't. She also keeps accepting his counsel on day to day rule and sure she is showing him that she isn't the innocent little bird she once was but she isn't completely shutting him out. Lets not forget that she always has had dreams of being the queen. It would sure seem to me she is entertaining the idea of the possibility by leaving that door open should it go from eventuality to certainty. In that regard they are both using each other to an unspoken degree of agreement. Would there be actual love there? Nope. Probably not.

In doing so she will admit she has lied, and then is faced with them forcing to choose who is telling the truth, and ultimately Lord Robyn is the one to decide. She made a mistake, lying about it at first, and is now faced with the task of getting rid of LF yet still keeping the Vale as an ally. And I am sure there is a part of her that thinks LF might still be useful, but each episode that fades more and more.

 

[remydat]

Ahh, the great teacher, responsable for moments like this?

https://youtu.be/WC9Y4MiOS9c

To LF Sansa is a tool, not a student. And yes, she choose to fight, I already pointed this out, she had no other choice but to go with LF, something he made sure of.

Great go have this argument with the showrunner then. I stand by my statement. I have provided evidence for why my statement is true based on someone with an intimate knowledge of the subject matter. You respond with nothing of substance.

Lol, reallying on the actors take, really? I could bring up other instances where the actors totally got things wrong.

I'm not relying on anything. People were suggesting my opinion was not shared by others so I provided evidence that it was. Not just random others but a showrunner and one of the actors. If you want to provide instances where the actors got it wrong then do so.

However just claiming you can without providing proof is not going to change my opinion. Do you honestly think I should alter my opinion when a showrunner and the actress who plays Sansa agree with me? Based on ramblings of people on the internet that I don't know?