Game of Thrones Thread

[The Hawk]

In doing so she will admit she has lied, and then is faced with them forcing to choose who is telling the truth, and ultimately Lord Robyn is the one to decide. She made a mistake, lying about it at first, and is now faced with the task of getting rid of LF yet still keeping the Vale as an ally. And I am sure there is a part of her that thinks LF might still be useful, but each episode that fades more and more.

It is going to be Sansa who takes LF down. Maybe with Bran's help?

 

[The Hawk]

Well, it is obvious that Sansa is learning somethings from LF, as she did Cersie. In a broad stroke I guess that makes them a teacher, but to present it in such a way that they are doing it for Sansa's benefit is not only a stretch, but an out right fallacy. Definitely not the normal teacher/student relationship by any stretch of the imagination.

What she is learning from LF is nothing. That boat has sailed a long time ago. She USED LF not the other way around

 

[nc0gnet0]

The same logic that I said earlier applies to Sith Lords. You groom your successor and that successor either is good enough to defeat you or you destroy them. LF wants someone worthy of his love. In order for Sansa to be worthy, she must be a formidable player of the Game of Thrones.

Now, explain to me the logic of the showrunner saying LF is her teacher but you somehow believing that was not the intent? Do you think the showrunner just hates you and purposefully said this years ago because he knew that we would argue about it today?

Let me guess, the showrunner is actually the Three Eyed Raven Bran Stark trapped in the present after defeating the Night King. That's how he knew that we would one day argue about this.

Look we are going in circles. The showrunner agrees with me. Nothing short of George Martin coming on CCS and telling me the showrunner is wrong is going to lead me to accept your word over the showrunner's. Are you actually surprised by this? Again do you really expect to change my opinion because you said so when the showrunner agrees with me?

Rubbish, LF is not grooming Sansa to be his successor, and I am not into Star Wars so I won't argue the finer points of your example, it is lost on me. Again, never denied Sansa has learned some things from LF, rather, I think you are completely misunderstanding LF's intent, there is no duality there, it is binary, and it is all to further his ambitions, Sansa is a pawn in the game, a tool.

And while the show producers may have made that statement, it was clear that we were being lead to believe that at first, but it would not be the first time we were lead to believe something from them that wasn't true (cough cough jon is dead)

To LF, Sansa is the game piece he thinks will do best... for him. In order to imagine LF as the "teacher/good guy" you'd have to reconcile that with the overwhelming evidence of just how shitty an individual he really is. Entrapping Sansa in KL, making her complicit in his crimes in the Vale, and trying to isolate her affections. If he's doing any grooming, it's of the sexual kind common to pedophiles and perverts. Sansa is learning some of his methods, but I don't expect she'll follow in his footsteps, and LF certainly isn't magnanimously teaching her out of a sense of good will and concern, it is all for his personal gain, exclusively. At the very best, Sansa is one of his personal "prizes" a substitute for Catelyn, in his quest for the Iron Throne.

As for Jamie, I am not sure in your mind what a redemption arc is. Jamie is portrayed as a bad guy, then we see a different side of him and grow to like him, despite for every two steps forward he seems to take one step back (recently this would be reversed).

So let me ask you this, if he turns his back on Cersei, and joins Jon to help fight the WW's despite Cersie, is this any sort of redemption? If your answer is no, then we are never going to agree on what a redemption arc even is.

As for him dong what I suggested, there have been moments in the show, not so much dialogue, but facial expressions that to me, and many others that not only foreshadow this happening, but illustrate he is in fact slowly changing (he is,, by his own self admission, a slow learner).

he did keep his word to Catelyn, and I am sure Cersei would not approve, to find her daughters and keep them safe, albeit thru Brienne.

his facial expression when confronted by edmore, about his deeds, did give him pause for reflection and a glimpse of remorse, albeit fleeting.

again his expression when first saw Cersei after she blew up the Red Keep

And finally his expression when confronted by Olenna.

So your saying the show runners did not purposelessly put these moments in the show, to foreshadow he was starting to see the light, and this cannot be called a redemption arc?

 

[number51]

Were you confused in thinking that LF is a teacher? He is not, he knows it, Sansa knows it, everybody knows it except you. I can't wait for the Hawk to weigh in, if he agrees with me I will switch over to your side.

If everyone knows it then how is it that the video I linked is titled.

Game of Thrones S04E04 - Littlefinger teaches Sansa how to play

You do understand that you can learn from people that are not teachers? Sansa learned from Cersi, does that make her a teacher? No it's just you with this bizarre infatuation with LF as teacher, mentor, roll model.

 

[number51]

Little Finger wants to think that he is a great manipulator and it has enabled to prosper. As for your stupid fucking comment about me, eat shit.

I'm sorry man, it's just that you are insane and if we agree on something, I am forced to reconsider my position.

Remy, you are correct, Littlefinger is in fact Sansa's teacher.

 

[The Hawk]

Sansa and Jon are doomed to be without love. They are cursed.

 

[nc0gnet0]

But the issue here is you have provided no proof that your take is spot on. So if I have to choose between your take and the actresses' take then I would take hers since she simply has more credibility than you by virtue of being intimately involved in the project. Like what evidence in this thread have you provided to suggest your take is spot on?



I'm saying Sansa agreed to go to the Bolton's because LF told her she could destroy them from within. And she made the comment when Walda was still pregnant as Walda first says they are going to have a baby at the dinner and Sansa looks at Ramsey and can tell he is not happy. You can tell from the below she has filed that away. So the point of her comment was to sow discord between father and son.

[video=youtube;gYL1VSjho6Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYL1VSjho6Q[/video]

And I never said something LF taught her came into play here. You laughed at Turner's comment and so I explained that her comment is correct. She does try to manipulate things to her advantage. This side debate had nothing to do with LF and everything to do with your claim that the actress doesn't always get it right. I disagree with you using her comments in this instance as evidence for your point. Turner is well within her rights to view Sansa's comments to Ramsey and her interaction with Theon as attempts to manipulate the situation. It's like you are suggesting your opinion of what Sansa is doing trumps what the actress thinks her character is doing. Again you have no evidence to support that view beyond your own opinion.

You didn't provide a video of Sansa saying anything about Waldas baby to Ramsay.........so still waiting for the manipulation you speak of.......Not saying it didn't happen, but I have no recollection of any such interaction, and I can't find it. Sansa talking to Theon was always to find an ally to help escape, not to form any sort of manipulation to exert or capture any kind of power from within, so both of your examples so far fail the litmus test.

 

[The Hawk]

One thing I never thought of. Now let's say arya goes on her mission to kill cersei would the mountain see through her disguises similar to night king able to see bran when he is in the zone?

Nah. The Mountain is just an asshole on Lannister steroids. Besides, it is going to be Bronn who kills his ass):

 

[Ares]

Nah. The Mountain is just an asshole on Lannister steroids. Besides, it is going to be Bronn who kills his ass):

The Mountain is.... at least based on the book description.... already dead.... he is more or less a zombie Qyburn created.

 

[bamainatlanta]

has anyone else noticed that Khal Drogo died with a shoulder injury and the dragon named Drogo got injured in the shoulder as well? Would Qyburn poison the arrow?

 

[The Hawk]

I'm sorry man, it's just that you are insane and if we agree on something, I am forced to reconsider my position.

Remy, you are correct, Littlefinger is in fact Sansa's teacher.

HOw really weakminded you really are. You really should stop because you are really an embarrassment. Obviously you do not have anything to add to this discussion other than to insult people.

 

[The Hawk]

So your saying Sansa purposely wanted Ramsey to kill Walda and her son? Walda's son was very much born, btw. That is your evidence of her manipulating? She manipulated Theon...hmmm, maybe.......not sure on that one, I see it more as helping him, as he was every much a prisoner if not more so than she was. Not sure how anything she "learned" from LF came into play there.

Nor did I. Little Finger will now try and turn his attention on Ayra and maybe try to play Arya against Sansa. LF will probably try and make his way to Cersei when his plans with the Starks fail.

 

[nc0gnet0]

You do understand that you can learn from people that are not teachers? Sansa learned from Cersi, does that make her a teacher? No it's just you with this bizarre infatuation with LF as teacher, mentor, roll model.

Remy is stuck in the broader definition of the term that if you learn something, anything from anyone, they are your teacher. By that definition, we are all teachers, as we are also all students. Some of us here choose to define the more traditional meaning of the term which implies a teacher is teaching you something with your personal growth in mind, and to that LF fails the definition. While it is true he presents himself to Sansa as a mentor a teacher, this in itself is nothing more than another one of his manipulations for his own personal gain, and not to help Sansa any any way. The one biggest thing Sansa learned from LF, is not to trust LF, as he will do nothing unless it advances his personal agenda.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Sansa and Jon are doomed to be without love. They are cursed.

Jon had that with Ygritte and now with Dany.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Nor did I. Little Finger will now try and turn his attention on Ayra and maybe try to play Arya against Sansa. LF will probably try and make his way to Cersei when his plans with the Starks fail.

spoiler tags

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Remy is stuck in the broader definition of the term that if you learn something, anything from anyone, they are your teacher. By that definition, we are all teachers, as we are also all students. Some of us here choose to define the more traditional meaning of the term which implies a teacher is teaching you something with your personal growth in mind, and to that LF fails the definition. While it is true he presents himself to Sansa as a mentor a teacher, this in itself is nothing more than another one of his manipulations for his own personal gain, and not to help Sansa any any way. The one biggest thing Sansa learned from LF, is not to trust LF, as he will do nothing unless it advances his personal agenda.

Exactly. The only teacher Sansa has had is experience.

 

[The Hawk]

The Mountain is.... at least based on the book description.... already dead.... he is more or less a zombie Qyburn created.

I don't give a crap. ZOmbie or not Bronn is gonna kill the Mountain. Besides, the Mountain is probably worn down by the High Sparrow's main bitch I can almost see the scene now. Cersei using the Mountain to protect her to try and protect her from the rescue attempt for the Sand Snake and her mommy. The mommy will die but not her snake kid. Nope. Jamie and Bronn will prevail. No doubt about it.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

I don't give a crap. ZOmbie or not Bronn is gonna kill the Mountain. Besides, the Mountain is probably worn down by the High Sparrow's main bitch I can almost see the scene now. Cersei using the Mountain to protect her to try and protect her from the rescue attempt for the Sand Snake and her mommy. The mommy will die but not her snake kid. Nope. Jamie and Bronn will prevail. No doubt about it.

There will be no rescue attempt. Jaime and Bronn are prisoners of war, not to mention the snake is good as dead already.

 

[ShiftyDevil]

I don't give a crap. ZOmbie or not Bronn is gonna kill the Mountain. Besides, the Mountain is probably worn down by the High Sparrow's main bitch I can almost see the scene now. Cersei using the Mountain to protect her to try and protect her from the rescue attempt for the Sand Snake and her mommy. The mommy will die but not her snake kid. Nope. Jamie and Bronn will prevail. No doubt about it.

Christ, your posts are awful.

 

[remydat]

Rubbish, LF is not grooming Sansa to be his successor, and I am not into Star Wars so I won't argue the finer points of your example, it is lost on me. Again, never denied Sansa has learned some things from LF, rather, I think you are completely misunderstanding LF's intent, there is no duality there, it is binary, and it is all to further his ambitions, Sansa is a pawn in the game, a tool.

And while the show producers may have made that statement, it was clear that we were being lead to believe that at first, but it would not be the first time we were lead to believe something from them that wasn't true (cough cough jon is dead)

To LF, Sansa is the game piece he thinks will do best... for him. In order to imagine LF as the "teacher/good guy" you'd have to reconcile that with the overwhelming evidence of just how shitty an individual he really is. Entrapping Sansa in KL, making her complicit in his crimes in the Vale, and trying to isolate her affections. If he's doing any grooming, it's of the sexual kind common to pedophiles and perverts. Sansa is learning some of his methods, but I don't expect she'll follow in his footsteps, and LF certainly isn't magnanimously teaching her out of a sense of good will and concern, it is all for his personal gain, exclusively. At the very best, Sansa is one of his personal "prizes" a substitute for Catelyn, in his quest for the Iron Throne.

As for Jamie, I am not sure in your mind what a redemption arc is. Jamie is portrayed as a bad guy, then we see a different side of him and grow to like him, despite for every two steps forward he seems to take one step back (recently this would be reversed).

So let me ask you this, if he turns his back on Cersei, and joins Jon to help fight the WW's despite Cersie, is this any sort of redemption? If your answer is no, then we are never going to agree on what a redemption arc even is.

As for him dong what I suggested, there have been moments in the show, not so much dialogue, but facial expressions that to me, and many others that not only foreshadow this happening, but illustrate he is in fact slowly changing (he is,, by his own self admission, a slow learner).

he did keep his word to Catelyn, and I am sure Cersei would not approve, to find her daughters and keep them safe, albeit thru Brienne.

his facial expression when confronted by edmore, about his deeds, did give him pause for reflection and a glimpse of remorse, albeit fleeting.

again his expression when first saw Cersei after she blew up the Red Keep

And finally his expression when confronted by Olenna.

So your saying the show runners did not purposelessly put these moments in the show, to foreshadow he was starting to see the light, and this cannot be called a redemption arc?

He is grooming her to be a formidable player in the game. It is clear he is a teacher per the showrunner and it is clear he is her weakness per the showrunners. Now you seem to want me to just completely disregard everything the showrunners said simply because you said so. That's rubbish. I'm not going to simply believe the showrunner is lying about LF being her teacher or her being his weakness imply because you say so. Present actual evidence because you are not George Martin. Your opinion is meaningless here.

Also quit with the straw man bullshit. No one said, he was a teacher/good guy. That's absurd. You literally just made up the good guy comment because you are trying to get around what the showrunner said about him being a teacher. I love how you are claiming Sansa is one of his prizes and acting like I haven't already said that is what she is. It's like you are ignoring completely my point that he is teaching and manipulating her so that she could be a worthy prize for him. To try and transform that into he is a good guy is flat out Special person.

As for the redemption arc, I said you didn't provide proof. I provided proof of what the showrunner said that supported my argument. You made some bullshit claim that Funny how I only use that logic to suit my argument and I responded that no one provided any evidence that a showrunner said Jamie was on a redemption arc. Do you have that evidence? If the showrunner didn't explicitly say it then don't try and compare me providing evidence of what the showrunner explicitly said with you trying to tell me what you think the showrunner was trying to do in a given scene. That's disingenuous.

And no when he actually turns his back on his monster of a sister then it would be growth. That's my entire point. We are seven seasons in and the dude is still wrapped around Cersei's finger even as she's driving their children to suicide and promising other dude's some pussy right in front of him. So he's exactly where he was in season one ie he's Cersei's toyboy and bitch. Any character actually experiencing growth would have killed that crazy bitch a long time ago or at a minimum slapped some fucking sense into her. Instead the dude continues to act like Cersei has the penis. I'm waiting for the scene where Cersei pulls out a big black dildo and fucks him in the ass because she's been doing it figuratively for the whole show. Like at what point do you think any reasonable man would have been like WTF? If I had to guess, I would say most dudes would have abandoned Cersei about 2 dead fucking children ago. The dude is the very definition of the word cuckold.