Game of Thrones Thread

[nc0gnet0]

No you are still confused because you are still trying to imply my argument is that he is merely trying to teach her. No my argument is that he trying to teach and manipulate her. And sure I suppose it is opinion except one of the showrunners agrees with me so my opinion is backed up by someone with more credibility on this matter than either of us.

You could have jsut as easily substituted Cersei with LF in that remark by the producers and it would hold true. So is Cersei trying to teach Sansa as well?
Is it LF's intent to teach Sansa how to be a master manipulator, or is it his intent to use his ramblings to persuade her to do things he wants her to do?

 

[Ares]

hey, at least this thread is no longer a rape discussion, amirite?

 

[Warrior Spirit]

She is in a position to completely ruin Littlefinger at any moment by simply telling the Vale bannermen that Petyr murdered Lysa because she was going to push her out the moon door. She hasn't. She also keeps accepting his counsel on day to day rule and sure she is showing him that she isn't the innocent little bird she once was but she isn't completely shutting him out. Lets not forget that she always has had dreams of being the queen. It would sure seem to me she is entertaining the idea of the possibility by leaving that door open should it go from eventuality to certainty. In that regard they are both using each other to an unspoken degree of agreement. Would there be actual love there? Nope. Probably not.

She is not accepting his counsel. Couldn't you tell by her sarcastic comebacks. She will be the one to order him killed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nc0gnet0]

Great go have this argument with the showrunner then. I stand by my statement. I have provided evidence for why my statement is true based on someone with an intimate knowledge of the subject matter. You respond with nothing of substance.



I'm not relying on anything. People were suggesting my opinion was not shared by others so I provided evidence that it was. Not just random others but a showrunner and one of the actors. If you want to provide instances where the actors got it wrong then do so.

However just claiming you can without providing proof is not going to change my opinion. Do you honestly think I should alter my opinion when a showrunner and the actress who plays Sansa agree with me? Based on ramblings of people on the internet that I don't know?[/QUOTE]

Funny how you use that argument when it fits your argument, but dismiss it when it doesn't. You might want to consider the bolded in you argument about the lack of any redemption arc for Jamie.

 

[remydat]

You could have jsut as easily substituted Cersei with LF in that remark by the producers and it would hold true. So is Cersei trying to teach Sansa as well?
Is it LF's intent to teach Sansa how to be a master manipulator, or is it his intent to use his ramblings to persuade her to do things he wants her to do?

Holy shit, I tell you that you are confused because my argument is that he trying to teach and manipulate her. Your response is to still question me by setting up an either/or scenario. Once again, it is not a binary decision. Here maybe this will help you understand.

Is it LF's intent to teach Sansa how to be a master manipulator? Yes.

Is it his intent to use his ramblings to persuade her to do things he wants her to do? Yes

Now explain to me in a logical fashion given what the showrunner said why the answer to your two questions can't both be yes aside from you simply not wanting it to be yes to both questions. Because you have provided no actual logical reasons why the answer isn't Yes to both. All you do is keep trying to take two completely independent questions and pretend like they are a single question.

 

[nc0gnet0]

However just claiming you can without providing proof is not going to change my opinion. Do you honestly think I should alter my opinion when a showrunner and the actress who plays Sansa agree with me? Based on ramblings of people on the internet that I don't know?

Her is one of Sophia turners quotes in an interview before the season in which whe was with Ramsay.

"It’s definitely a dark season for her. She just escaped King’s Landing, and she goes back to a place where she becomes somewhat of a prisoner again. Despite being a prisoner again, she plays it out very differently this time compared to before. She tries to take command and begins to manipulate the people who are keeping her prisoner—which is nice."

lol

 

[remydat]

Funny how you use that argument when it fits your argument, but dismiss it when it doesn't. You might want to consider the bolded in you argument about the lack of any redemption arc for Jamie.

Except I don't recall anyone posting an article where a showrunner claimed Jamie was on a redemption arc. If they did and I missed it then post it again and I will admit that per the showrunner, Jamie is on a redemption arc. When I claim the showrunner said something, I provide the proof.

Further, I am not even arguing the redemption angle so much as I am arguing the growth angle. And there is an inherent difference between the intent of the author/showrunner and whether a viewer thinks it's been translated on screen.

I said LF is a teaching and manipulating her because that is how I interpret his actions. It seems the showrunner agrees with me. If you want to accept the showrunner's intent is for LF to be seen as a teacher but argue it has not been translated well on the show then I have no problem with that because that is a subjective argument. However that is not what you are arguing. Instead you are trying to deny something for which the showrunner has made clear is essentially an element of the relationship they are trying to show. That's just dumb.

All while claiming I am doing the same yet the difference is I provided proof of what the showrunner said. I have seen no proof that the showrunner supports anything you said but would welcome it.

 

[Ares]

If you two don't play nice, I will bring Hawk in here and start discussing rape again

 

[nc0gnet0]

Holy shit, I tell you that you are confused because my argument is that he trying to teach and manipulate her. Your response is to still question me by setting up an either/or scenario. Once again, it is not a binary decision. Here maybe this will help you understand.

Is it LF's intent to teach Sansa how to be a master manipulator? Yes.

Is it his intent to use his ramblings to persuade her to do things he wants her to do? Yes

Now explain to me in a logical fashion given what the showrunner said why the answer to your two questions can't both be yes aside from you simply not wanting it to be yes to both questions. Because you have provided no actual logical reasons why the answer isn't Yes to both. All you do is keep trying to take two completely independent questions and pretend like they are a single question.

Logic? LMAO

Explain to me the logic of purposely trying to teach someone how to be a master manipulator, when it is your intent to keep on manipulating them? When your life will ultimately depend on them not know your manipulating them? How is that logical?

 

[remydat]

Her is one of Sophia turners quotes in an interview before the season in which whe was with Ramsay.

"It’s definitely a dark season for her. She just escaped King’s Landing, and she goes back to a place where she becomes somewhat of a prisoner again. Despite being a prisoner again, she plays it out very differently this time compared to before. She tries to take command and begins to manipulate the people who are keeping her prisoner—which is nice."

lol

Not sure what is funny. She is the one who tells Ramsey that his position is not safe with Roose and Walda's unborn son and eventually Ramsey kills his father and Walda. More importantly, it is she who breaks down Theon's fear of Ramsey which eventually allows Theon to kill Myranda and help her escape. So not sure what is funny. She manipulated Theon for sure and she picked at the open wound of Roose and Walda having a legitimate son.

That's obviously what she was referring to when she made the state is it not? Did her actions particularly with Theon not eventually lead to her escape?

 

[remydat]

Logic? LMAO

Explain to me the logic of purposely trying to teach someone how to be a master manipulator, when it is your intent to keep on manipulating them? When your life will ultimately depend on them not know your manipulating them? How is that logical?

The same logic that I said earlier applies to Sith Lords. You groom your successor and that successor either is good enough to defeat you or you destroy them. LF wants someone worthy of his love. In order for Sansa to be worthy, she must be a formidable player of the Game of Thrones.

Now, explain to me the logic of the showrunner saying LF is her teacher but you somehow believing that was not the intent? Do you think the showrunner just hates you and purposefully said this years ago because he knew that we would argue about it today?

Let me guess, the showrunner is actually the Three Eyed Raven Bran Stark trapped in the present after defeating the Night King. That's how he knew that we would one day argue about this.

Look we are going in circles. The showrunner agrees with me. Nothing short of George Martin coming on CCS and telling me the showrunner is wrong is going to lead me to accept your word over the showrunner's. Are you actually surprised by this? Again do you really expect to change my opinion because you said so when the showrunner agrees with me?

 

[nc0gnet0]

http://ew.com/article/2015/04/03/game-thrones-sophie-turner-interview-season-5/

Oh and it's clear Sophie Turner thinks Sansa and LF have a certain dynamic and that they manipulate each other but no Sansa doesn't manipulate people despite the actress playing her saying she does.

Of course she would say that and I never once said Sophi Turner and Aidan Gillen don't have a certain dynamic. As a matter of fact gillen might be one of the best actors on a GOT's. My point was Sophie's take on things isn't always spot on. The actors doen't even know the sum total of there scenes until the season is released, and only given their scripts the day of the shoot. Their knowledge of things is limited to the scenes they have acted in.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Not sure what is funny. She is the one who tells Ramsey that his position is not safe with Roose and Walda's unborn son and eventually Ramsey kills his father and Walda. More importantly, it is she who breaks down Theon's fear of Ramsey which eventually allows Theon to kill Myranda and help her escape. So not sure what is funny. She manipulated Theon for sure and she picked at the open wound of Roose and Walda having a legitimate son.

That's obviously what she was referring to when she made the state is it not? Did her actions particularly with Theon not eventually lead to her escape?

So your saying Sansa purposely wanted Ramsey to kill Walda and her son? Walda's son was very much born, btw. That is your evidence of her manipulating? She manipulated Theon...hmmm, maybe.......not sure on that one, I see it more as helping him, as he was every much a prisoner if not more so than she was. Not sure how anything she "learned" from LF came into play there.

 

[The Hawk]

maybe you guys just assuming too much that bron cares about these skunks or snakes. He cares about himself and gold not much else

Nope. I think that he respected the snake because they got over him. Bronn is also all about respect. Thinking about it, I think it is HE who ends up killing the Mountain. Remember that he was asked by Tyrion if he were to become his champion but declined. But it wasn't that he didn't think that he could have killed him, he just didn't think it would have been worth the risk, right? Bronn is going to last until the end of this series because he and Breinne are the most honest of all of them.

 

[The Hawk]

He has always been a sellsword. Why try to read anything more into it?

He is much more than that. He is Jamie's "HAND". Bronn right now is one of the strongest characters in the story. Hell, he just saved Jamie's life and almost killed Dany's dragon. I think that when all of the dust settles, that Bronn will be still standing and will prosper.

 

[remydat]

Of course she would say that and I never once said Sophi Turner and Aidan Gillen don't have a certain dynamic. As a matter of fact gillen might be one of the best actors on a GOT's. My point was Sophie's take on things isn't always spot on. The actors doen't even know the sum total of there scenes until the season is released, and only given their scripts the day of the shoot. Their knowledge of things is limited to the scenes they have acted in.

But the issue here is you have provided no proof that your take is spot on. So if I have to choose between your take and the actresses' take then I would take hers since she simply has more credibility than you by virtue of being intimately involved in the project. Like what evidence in this thread have you provided to suggest your take is spot on?

So your saying Sansa purposely wanted Ramsey to kill Walda and her son? Walda's son was very much born, btw. That is your evidence of her manipulating? She manipulated Theon...hmmm, maybe.......not sure on that one, I see it more as helping him, as he was every much a prisoner if not more so than she was. Not sure how anything she "learned" from LF came into play there.

I'm saying Sansa agreed to go to the Bolton's because LF told her she could destroy them from within. And she made the comment when Walda was still pregnant as Walda first says they are going to have a baby at the dinner and Sansa looks at Ramsey and can tell he is not happy. You can tell from the below she has filed that away. So the point of her comment was to sow discord between father and son.

[video=youtube;gYL1VSjho6Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYL1VSjho6Q[/video]

And I never said something LF taught her came into play here. You laughed at Turner's comment and so I explained that her comment is correct. She does try to manipulate things to her advantage. This side debate had nothing to do with LF and everything to do with your claim that the actress doesn't always get it right. I disagree with you using her comments in this instance as evidence for your point. Turner is well within her rights to view Sansa's comments to Ramsey and her interaction with Theon as attempts to manipulate the situation. It's like you are suggesting your opinion of what Sansa is doing trumps what the actress thinks her character is doing. Again you have no evidence to support that view beyond your own opinion.

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

One thing I never thought of. Now let's say arya goes on her mission to kill cersei would the mountain see through her disguises similar to night king able to see bran when he is in the zone?

 

[The Hawk]

Lysa is batshit crazy and Petyr had been fostered with Lysa and Catelyn Tully. He loved Catelyn since childhood just as Lysa fell in love with Petyr. He almost committed to certain death wanting to fight Ned's brother Brandon to marry her. She wanted to marry Brandon and asked he spare Petyr's life so he left him with a scar to remember him by. Naval to collarbone as he described it. That was a valuable lesson for Littlefinger as he learned that he would never win as a fighter but instead had to rely on his wit.

I don't see the unattainable part you're referencing. He basically made his plays to try to get Catelyn and now he's been making his plays to try to get Sansa which clearly reminds him greatly of his lost love. Sansa isn't exactly giving him the complete cold shoulder either. A part of me thinks he has snuck far enough into her head that its still a possibility.

No way. That is fucking silly. He is not in her head. Sansa understands what LF is all about and it is SHE that is playing him not the other way around. Personally I think that it will be Brienne that ends up killing him.

 

[remydat]

[video=youtube;EqSGIceHh8k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqSGIceHh8k[/video]

Just found the scene. It is clear that Sansa is fucking with Ramsey here. She gives a little half smile that he can't see before acting like she is merely curious or questioning when she knows exactly what she is doing.

You should watch the full vid as it's funny as fuck. Like you tell me what you think just happened here when the outcome is that Ramsey murdered his father, Walda, and their son? Let me guess, she was just making small talk.

 

[The Hawk]

Were you confused in thinking that LF is a teacher? He is not, he knows it, Sansa knows it, everybody knows it except you. I can't wait for the Hawk to weigh in, if he agrees with me I will switch over to your side.

Little Finger wants to think that he is a great manipulator and it has enabled to prosper. As for your stupid fucking comment about me, eat shit.