Game of Thrones Thread

remydat

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After what Jaime just saw, he thought it was a good idea to try to end the war right then. None of us knew if the dragon had anything left, that's why it was exciting.

Tyrion didn't want his brother to risk his life trying to kill his queen. From Tyrion's perspective risking his life was stupid.

Everyone knows if Daney dies the war is over, what the Dothraki do after the war is debatable. We had a nice debate, I appreciate your theories, I hope you enjoyed mine.

But yeah Dorne, it's in their nature, just to wet and cold in KL, if you gotta rape and pillage do it where you feel good. They don't want to have to loot parkas.

Again why would the war be over? The Dorthraki raping and pillaging is still them at war. The Unsullied are still a massive army at Casterly Rock. Where do they go? The North still has beef with the Lannisters. The Dorne still may want revenge for Ellaria. Kiling Dany ends perhaps the easy coordination of all these factions but it does not end their separate reasons for wanting to war with the Lannisters. Not to mention there are still 3 dragons about.

Tyrion knew his attack was hopeless. In that moment he expressed zero concern for Dany. His concern was for his idiot brother because he knew his idiot brother had pretty much no chance of hurting his Queen. So did Bron hence why he galloped over there to save Jamie's dumb ass.

In any event, debate is always good so no worries.
 

ZOMBIE@CTESPN

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i thought the mad king allowed jaime in the kingsguard to spite tywin? being that jaime was his eldest son and most desirable male heir...if anything tywin would want jaime off of the kingsguard asap

but what i was questioning iis how was jaime able to stay in the kingsguard even though he knowingly murdered the king...if a cia agent killed the president he would get a modern day lynching on live tv

is the kings guard something like being a maester? no matter what a maester is assigned to a certain castle no matter who is in charge...is the kingsguard similar?

Sorry busy at work

So here it goes Jamie joins kingsguard to spite father

Jamie kills the mad king basically by his fathers orders cause he struck a deal. Jamie stays in kings guard, cersei marries rob, and 7 kingdoms live happily ever after

I guess he decided to stay in kings guard to stay close to his sis so they can keep banging
 

Warrior Spirit

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Well I was thinking about it more from Dany and Jon's relationship. Outside forces may bicker regarding who has the stronger claim but I think Dany given her personality would most likely realize that as a son of her older brother, he has a stronger claim to the throne. A more ruthless person may disregard that or challenge whether it is the strongest but I think Dany wouldn't. Instead, she would most like offer a marriage as a compromise.

I agree the Northerners would likely not be pleased but I think pacifying them would hinge on the truth coming out about Rhaegar and Lyanna. I think initially they would assume Jon was a product of rape and thus be totally against the idea of Jon remaining King of the North but I suspect Rhaegar and Lyanna may actually have been in love. In any event, if Jon and Dany did wed, I would think he would give up Winterfell to Sansas since he would most likely have to spend too much time in KL to remain King of the North.

Of course, not saying this is how it all plays out but just speculating based on following this train of thought through to the end.
I've given some thought to this and conclude it's pretty much irrelevant. While I do think it will turn out Jon's the legitimate heir of Rhaegar, the Iron Throne's not really his thing. I also believe one or both of them will die in the final season. Don't expect Cersei to be totally defeated this season cause the focus is about to shift completely to the NK and his army of the dead. This is made obvious in the preview for week 5 so this next episode will be used to put all the pieces together in preparation for that big war.
 

remydat

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I've given some thought to this and conclude it's pretty much irrelevant. While I do think it will turn out Jon's the legitimate heir of Rhaegar, the Iron Throne's not really his thing. I also believe one or both of them will die in the final season. Don't expect Cersei to be totally defeated this season cause the focus is about to shift completely to the NK and his army of the dead. This is made obvious in the preview for week 5 so this next episode will be used to put all the pieces together in preparation for that big war.

Oh I was not saying this was the likely outcome. It was more of a tangent in response the exchange TJ and I were having about Targaryen blood. That would be too neat an ending most likely for Martin.

He should just go real dark and just have the NK overrun Westeros and everyone dies. Let it be an abject lesson on what happens when petty humans don't work together for the common good.

Then Bran can reveal this was all part of his plan to rid the earth of petty humans so he can play in the forest with the Children of the Forest.
 

remydat

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Two people want the throne, one dies war over.

The war doesn't just involve two people. There are hostilities from multiple people involved. The Dothraki want plunder so there is no reason for them to end their desire for plunder simply because Dany is dead. Varys does what he thinks is in the best interest of the country and Cersei is not that in his view. Tyrion is still at odds with his brother and sister and can't just be like no biggie. Missandei and Greyworm believed in Dany and it's not a given they just up and leave now that she is dead rather than seek revenge. And when Dany walked out of the fire after killing the other Dothraki leaders, she was recognized as their Queen so the idea they will just like the death of their Queen slide is unfounded.

The situation is far more complicated than two people want the crown and it's this very simplistic way of thinking that makes Jamie more of a soldier than a strategist. When it comes to strategy, he should probably let Cersei do the thinking for him.
 

nc0gnet0

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I've given some thought to this and conclude it's pretty much irrelevant. While I do think it will turn out Jon's the legitimate heir of Rhaegar, the Iron Throne's not really his thing. I also believe one or both of them will die in the final season. Don't expect Cersei to be totally defeated this season cause the focus is about to shift completely to the NK and his army of the dead. This is made obvious in the preview for week 5 so this next episode will be used to put all the pieces together in preparation for that big war.

No one knows for sure, as GRRM has never clarified where Bastards fall in the line of succession to the throne........

In order for Jon to clearly have a better claim than Dany, he has to not only be discovered as a son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, but his true parents must have also been married, removing his "bastard" status. If both things are found to be the case, Jon has the better claim*, as Westeros follows male-preference primogeniture succession laws.

Male-preference primogeniture succession means not only are Sons>Daughters, but sons of sons have a greater claim as well.

At question here is where in the order do the Male bastards fall? Naturally, they are at the end of the list of all the male siblings, but would a bastard such as Jon (unless found to be legitimate) precede a legitimate daughter, such as Dany? There is no answer to this question because GRRM hasn't weighed in.

Further complicating the issue is, Aerys II Targaryen, named Visery as his heir to the throne, skipping over Rhaegar, who in which would have been the rightful heir. It is unclear what this did to Rhaegar's heirs....of which Jon is one (presumably).

And then there is this vague statement made during the targaryen dynasty. "in the eyes of many, the Great Council of 101 AC thereby established an iron precedent on matters of succession: regardless of seniority, the Iron Throne of Westeros could not pass to a woman, nor through a woman to her male descendent's."

One thing we do know, that if we are following the Targaryen line of succession, and if Rhaegar and Lyanna did manage to get married, then Jon is the rightful heir.

But then there is still that pesky Night's watch oath Jon took.

Interestingly enough, the lines of succession so far in the show have all flowed through Robert Baretheon. And this is where things get interesting, because all the legitimate heirs that flow through Robert are dead, and one male bastard remains, Gendry.
 

nc0gnet0

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The war doesn't just involve two people. There are hostilities from multiple people involved. The Dothraki want plunder so there is no reason for them to end their desire for plunder simply because Dany is dead. Varys does what he thinks is in the best interest of the country and Cersei is not that in his view. Tyrion is still at odds with his brother and sister and can't just be like no biggie. Missandei and Greyworm believed in Dany and it's not a given they just up and leave now that she is dead rather than seek revenge. And when Dany walked out of the fire after killing the other Dothraki leaders, she was recognized as their Queen so the idea they will just like the death of their Queen slide is unfounded.

The situation is far more complicated than two people want the crown and it's this very simplistic way of thinking that makes Jamie more of a soldier than a strategist. When it comes to strategy, he should probably let Cersei do the thinking for him.


Not necessarily true, Jamie has been the chief strategist so far, he anticipated Tyrion's siege on Casterly rock, and it was his idea to plunder the Reach, and enlist Randayl as his ally. Your giving Cersei way to much credit here. A great political manipulator she is indeed, but a war strategist she is not.
 

remydat

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Not necessarily true, Jamie has been the chief strategist so far, he anticipated Tyrion's siege on Casterly rock, and it was his idea to plunder the Reach, and enlist Randayl as his ally. Your giving Cersei way to much credit here. A great political manipulator she is indeed, but a war strategist she is not.

When did it say it was his plan? Cersei had told the Iron Bank dude she would repay the debt and was quite confident about doing so. I got the impression she had that planned all along and I don't recall Jamie saying it was his idea. I simply recall Jamie explaining to Olenna or Bron (I forget who) the plan. Of course I may have missed where it was explicit that it was his plan.

Cersei was also the one that summoned all the Lords including Randayl and implored them to defend against the foreigners. Jamie was the one to then talk to Randayl on the side to convince him because Randayl doesn't like Cersei. But again, I don't recall it being Jamie that came up with the idea but rather Jamie that did the convincing.
 

Ares

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No one knows for sure, as GRRM has never clarified where Bastards fall in the line of succession to the throne........

In order for Jon to clearly have a better claim than Dany, he has to not only be discovered as a son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, but his true parents must have also been married, removing his "bastard" status. If both things are found to be the case, Jon has the better claim*, as Westeros follows male-preference primogeniture succession laws.

Male-preference primogeniture succession means not only are Sons>Daughters, but sons of sons have a greater claim as well.

At question here is where in the order do the Male bastards fall? Naturally, they are at the end of the list of all the male siblings, but would a bastard such as Jon (unless found to be legitimate) precede a legitimate daughter, such as Dany? There is no answer to this question because GRRM hasn't weighed in.

Further complicating the issue is, Aerys II Targaryen, named Visery as his heir to the throne, skipping over Rhaegar, who in which would have been the rightful heir. It is unclear what this did to Rhaegar's heirs....of which Jon is one (presumably).

And then there is this vague statement made during the targaryen dynasty. "in the eyes of many, the Great Council of 101 AC thereby established an iron precedent on matters of succession: regardless of seniority, the Iron Throne of Westeros could not pass to a woman, nor through a woman to her male descendent's."

One thing we do know, that if we are following the Targaryen line of succession, and if Rhaegar and Lyanna did manage to get married, then Jon is the rightful heir.

But then there is still that pesky Night's watch oath Jon took.

Interestingly enough, the lines of succession so far in the show have all flowed through Robert Baretheon. And this is where things get interesting, because all the legitimate heirs that flow through Robert are dead, and one male bastard remains, Gendry.

His oath was till death, he died, oath fulfilled technically.
 

nc0gnet0

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When did it say it was his plan? Cersei had told the Iron Bank dude she would repay the debt and was quite confident about doing so. I got the impression she had that planned all along and I don't recall Jamie saying it was his idea. I simply recall Jamie explaining to Olenna or Bron (I forget who) the plan. Of course I may have missed where it was explicit that it was his plan.

Cersei was also the one that summoned all the Lords including Randayl and implored them to defend against the foreigners. Jamie was the one to then talk to Randayl on the side to convince him because Randayl doesn't like Cersei. But again, I don't recall it being Jamie that came up with the idea but rather Jamie that did the convincing.

Maybe you better watch again? (this video is just for confirmation from the producers that jamie is responsible for the strategy, I m not sure the war room Jamie/cersei sequence has made it to youtube yet).

[video=youtube_share;UN-rbTB0ds8]https://youtu.be/UN-rbTB0ds8[/video]

Also re-watch the war room Scene when Jamie and Cersei are talking while standing on the huge painted map.
 

Ares

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I don't disagree, but then again, Jon doesn't let anyone know he died either........

Isn't it odd no one has questioned him leaving the Night's Watch?

I mean the entire North knows their deal and presumably they know Jon was the fucking Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.... not a single person has come forward and been like "Hey so um how come u allowed to leave da Night's Watch?"
 

nc0gnet0

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Isn't it odd no one has questioned him leaving the Night's Watch?

I mean the entire North knows their deal and presumably they know Jon was the fucking Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.... not a single person has come forward and been like "Hey so um how come u allowed to leave da Night's Watch?"

I agree, but I don't think anyone in the North would begrudge him leaving under the circumstances (regardless of dieing or not) though, however, I am only saying ultimately he might be in the position where it is brought up again.......I think it is a mute point though, as I don't think Jon has any desire for the Iron throne, but if Dany were to do, he might be convinced to take it.
 

remydat

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Maybe you better watch again?

[video=youtube_share;UN-rbTB0ds8]https://youtu.be/UN-rbTB0ds8[/video]

Also re-watch the war room Scene when Jamie and Cersei are talking while standing on the huge painted map.

I never watched the inside look so there would be nothing to watch again as this is the first time I'm seeing this. I was referring to where in the show does it say it was his plan. Not discounting that the writers said it but simply saying that was not what I was referring to when I asked the question.

I will rewatch the War Room scene this weekend.
 

Ares

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I agree, but I don't think anyone in the North would begrudge him leaving under the circumstances (regardless of dieing or not) though, however, I am only saying ultimately he might be in the position where it is brought up again.......I think it is a mute point though, as I don't think Jon has any desire for the Iron throne, but if Dany were to do, he might be convinced to take it.

See idk... the way the North is about the Night's Watch I would think someone woulda spoke up.... Ned was executing deserters, no questions asked.... I kinda presume most Northern houses have a hard line on the Night's Watch oath.
 

remydat

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See idk... the way the North is about the Night's Watch I would think someone woulda spoke up.... Ned was executing deserters, no questions asked.... I kinda presume most Northern houses have a hard line on the Night's Watch oath.

If there was a male Stark that could rule the North other than Jon, I suspect they would take a harder line but given it's just Jon, I suspect they won't question it much.
 

Ares

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If there was a male Stark that could rule the North other than Jon, I suspect they would take a harder line but given it's just Jon, I suspect they won't question it much.

Well Bran is back and no mater what he says, he is Ned Stark's son and is the Lord of Winterfell.
 

remydat

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Well Bran is back and no mater what he says, he is Ned Stark's son and is the Lord of Winterfell.

True but that dude is in another world it seems. Literally and figuratively.
 

nc0gnet0

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Well Bran is back and no mater what he says, he is Ned Stark's son and is the Lord of Winterfell.

Even Jon would agree to this, thing is, Bran doesn't wan't to be Lord of Winterfell, and this is a common debate..........IMO Lord of Winterfell and King of the North are Two separate titles, and while Rob Stark might have been both, being Lord of Winterfell does not automatically make you King of the North. What I am saying is, theortically Jon could be King of the North, while Bran was Lord of Winterfell.
 

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