Garza To Rangers -- Olt, Edwards, Grimm to Chi (Post 607)

CSF77

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Shark has the talent to be an ace. His problem is he depends on his stuff too much. If he doesn't have a pitch working he gets hammered before he can adjust. Vs pitching to location to force some easy out eay game then when he can get his pitches working go for some S/O's. he has 7 guys behind him.
 

KBisBack!

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LMAO... yea your right.. there no chance that multiple teams would be out bidding each other for his services in the off season if he becomes a FA
you should become a players agent, they would love you..
:enough:

You clearly don't grasp the concept of overpay.




Cute little icon to show how smart and funny I am
 

KBisBack!

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How do you figure? If you're talking about immediate impact, then yes. That's the point of acquiring prospects, after all. If you're talking about long-term impact, especially when you consider Garza's injury history? Who knows? It's a risk the Cubs are obviously willing to take.

Doesn't matter if I am talking immediate impact or impact five years down the road.

If traded, there is a very small chance that any of the prospects acquired will become an above average major league player.

Garza is already an above average major league player.

The odds are greatly in Garza's favor of providing a greater impact this year, next year and five years from now than any prospect acquired for Garza.

I know this is a hard concept for you to grasp, but it is the facts.


Where are you pulling these transparent "facts" from? Is it fun being this delusional?

Please.

Half the board whines about any veteran FA proposed to be signed for the Cubs will be at the end of his career in 4-5 years when the Cubs are competitive in the best case scenario baring massive FA spending.

In 4-5 years Shark will 33-34 years old. The same age many are whining are over the hill and worthless to a contending team.

To argue otherwise admits ignorance to what has been posted on this board by many people.



If the value was there, in terms of contract length and salary, and Samardzjia had shown improvement during his arbitration years and the ability to stay healthy, then I'd absolutely love to keep him -- so would most others. Nice generalization there. The same goes for Garza. The desire to potentially trade him has nothing to do with his age -- it's his injury history and the potential return on investment. People are acting like the Cubs gave up superstars to get Garza. Sam Fuld and Chris Archer are the only two guys who've even reached the majors for the Rays in that deal. Hak-Ju Lee has regressed greatly. At this point, I'd say the Cubs have won that trade, hands down.

I would say the Cubs won the Garza trade hands down also.

But that also is the same exact logic that I am using to speculate the Cubs will lose any trade involving Garza right now.

The Rays lost trading Garza away several years ago forfeiting years of team control but yet now you think the Cubs will win trading away Garza to a team that will only have a couple months of team control??

Those statements completely contradict themselves.


This is contradictory to the statement you and Pat made a few days ago -- stating that Garza and Samardzjia were both more valuable to the Cubs as rotational building blocks. Which is it?

It isn't contradictory at all.

Both Matt Garza and Jeff Samardzija hold more value to the Cubs resigning and retaining their services than any return they will get.

It is simple logic.

A bird in the hand is worth more than two in the bush.

However I don't think either player wants to stay in Chicago. So if the players don't want to stay unless they are totally overpaid. If you don't want to overpay them, you have to take the worse option and trade them for pennies on the dollar.
 

JosMin

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Doesn't matter if I am talking immediate impact or impact five years down the road.

If traded, there is a very small chance that any of the prospects acquired will become an above average major league player.

Garza is already an above average major league player.

The odds are greatly in Garza's favor of providing a greater impact this year, next year and five years from now than any prospect acquired for Garza.

I know this is a hard concept for you to grasp, but it is the facts.

Nobody is disputing that there's a chance that any trade of Garza could fail. The point is that the Cubs' management is willing to take the risk. Everyone knows that's an inherent risk when you acquire young, unproven players. But we'll keep going back to the cornerstone statement -- this is how the Cubs are approaching their rebuild. If you don't like it, stop talking about it.



Please.

Half the board whines about any veteran FA proposed to be signed for the Cubs will be at the end of his career in 4-5 years when the Cubs are competitive in the best case scenario baring massive FA spending.

Half the board is complaining? Or half the board is questioning the names you guys throw out there because you don't back up how they'll fit on the future roster, in regards to where prospects are projected to fill in, because you don't talk about contract lengths or values and you don't talk about how they could potentially effect what they've already done with the rebuilding process. There's a difference between the two.

In 4-5 years Shark will 33-34 years old. The same age many are whining are over the hill and worthless to a contending team.

To argue otherwise admits ignorance to what has been posted on this board by many people.

See my above statement.


I would say the Cubs won the Garza trade hands down also.

But that also is the same exact logic that I am using to speculate the Cubs will lose any trade involving Garza right now.

Any transaction in sports involves an inherent risk. If that wasn't the case, I'm fairly sure the Cubs would've just given Grenkie, Hamilton, Napoli, Victorino, Bourn and LaRoche all blank checks and traded away the rest of their prospects to fill out the rest of the roster. There's no foregone conclusion that Garza would resign, even if we didn't trade him. And honestly, I'd rather have multiple prospects instead of just one compensatory pick. At that point, it's a numbers game -- is it more likely to have one guy succeed if he's the only one with a chance, or have one guy to succeed if there are three potential guys to choose from?

The Rays lost trading Garza away several years ago forfeiting years of team control but yet now you think the Cubs will win trading away Garza to a team that will only have a couple months of team control??

Those statements completely contradict themselves.

I never said the Cubs will win the trade. Based on how they're rebuilding the team, trading away Garza fits the rest of the previous transactions and gives them the best chance to continue to add some potential pitching prospects. If their is any substance to Garza wanting to leave Chicago, then why would they hold onto him if they knew he didn't want to stay there? In that case, shouldn't the get rid of him and make sure to get some return on that investment?



It isn't contradictory at all.

Both Matt Garza and Jeff Samardzija hold more value to the Cubs resigning and retaining their services than any return they will get.

It is simple logic.

According to who?

A bird in the hand is worth more than two in the bush.

However I don't think either player wants to stay in Chicago. So if the players don't want to stay unless they are totally overpaid. If you don't want to overpay them, you have to take the worse option and trade them for pennies on the dollar.

So -- you don't know that Samardzjia and Garza don't want to stay? Again, make up your mind. I'll direct your attention, once again, to you saying this:

And he will also be 29 years old next year and has shown zero interest in staying with the Cubs long term with the current plan they are implementing.

Stop penning your opinions as facts If you're going to say something that you try to pass off as fact instead of your opinion, post facts, quotes or articles that support it. Otherwise, you're spinning fiction. There is ZERO proof that these guys have came out and said, "I don't want to be in Chicago -- the team sucks."
 

KBisBack!

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The point is that the Cubs' management is willing to take the risk.

The point is that is the worse way to build a competitive ballclub.


Everyone knows that's an inherent risk when you acquire young, unproven players. But we'll keep going back to the cornerstone statement -- this is how the Cubs are approaching their rebuild. If you don't like it, stop talking about it.

Dumb.





Half the board is complaining? Or half the board is questioning the names you guys throw out there because you don't back up how they'll fit on the future roster, in regards to where prospects are projected to fill in, because you don't talk about contract lengths or values and you don't talk about how they could potentially effect what they've already done with the rebuilding process. There's a difference between the two.

I don't think anyone has proposed anything that would seriously hinder this supposedly great rebuilding process in place.

You have never mentioned how any of the proposed moves hinders the rebuilding project. You have just whined and cried that it isn't possible.








Any transaction in sports involves an inherent risk. If that wasn't the case, I'm fairly sure the Cubs would've just given Grenkie, Hamilton, Napoli, Victorino, Bourn and LaRoche all blank checks and traded away the rest of their prospects to fill out the rest of the roster. There's no foregone conclusion that Garza would resign, even if we didn't trade him. And honestly, I'd rather have multiple prospects instead of just one compensatory pick. At that point, it's a numbers game -- is it more likely to have one guy succeed if he's the only one with a chance, or have one guy to succeed if there are three potential guys to choose from?



I never said the Cubs will win the trade. Based on how they're rebuilding the team, trading away Garza fits the rest of the previous transactions and gives them the best chance to continue to add some potential pitching prospects. If their is any substance to Garza wanting to leave Chicago, then why would they hold onto him if they knew he didn't want to stay there? In that case, shouldn't the get rid of him and make sure to get some return on that investment?

If you actually read what I had written instead of whining and crying about it, I have said I think they will trade him because I don't think they are willing to resign him.

One step forward. Three steps back.

Doesn't mean that is the best thing.









So -- you don't know that Samardzjia and Garza don't want to stay? Again, make up your mind. I'll direct your attention, once again, to you saying this:



Stop penning your opinions as facts If you're going to say something that you try to pass off as fact instead of your opinion, post facts, quotes or articles that support it. Otherwise, you're spinning fiction. There is ZERO proof that these guys have came out and said, "I don't want to be in Chicago -- the team sucks."

I have never once penned my opinions as facts.

In fact I have always proposed them as my opinion.

However it fits your agenda to whine and cry about everything and anything I have said rather than actually read and comprehend what was written.
 

WindyCity

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@Buster_ESPN: This may well be Matt Garza's last start with CHC, who are said to be making progress with at least 2 teams. Deal over break appears likely.
 

Mr. Cub

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@Buster_ESPN: This may well be Matt Garza's last start with CHC, who are said to be making progress with at least 2 teams. Deal over break appears likely.

Dumb.
 

patg006

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@Buster_ESPN: This may well be Matt Garza's last start with CHC, who are said to be making progress with at least 2 teams. Deal over break appears likely.

Believe it when you see it. Nobody wants to be first to spend big prospects on SP. Rangers are my guess if there is anything.

Otherwise this is Olney blowing smoke out of his ass. Not for the first time either.....
 

CSF77

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The right-hander has shrugged off the flurry of trade rumors, which he jokes have followed him everywhere. The Rangers had two scouts at Wrigley to watch the right-hander, while the Tigers, Orioles, Pirates and Blue Jays also had representatives present. A few more were probably watching on TV.

O's just got Feldman. Not sure if they will deal again.
B. Jays maybe a dark horse.
Pirates not sure if they deal with in the div.
Tigers 2nd most likely.
Rangers most likely.

So on the Rangers: Trade that could work: Jorge Alfaro #5 ranked Catcher maybe with Mike Olt #2 ranked 3B. In return Garza and Navarro (make it a package deal)

This way they could plug Olt into 3B next year while Bryant is developing. It leaves open options for either to take the other corner OF spot.

I was figuring that they were going to wait on Baker to get off of the DL but not so sure now. Arrieta not really dominating AAA and Rusin got whacked the last time up. Still it was only one game. Need more games in at this level to see if he settles or is not good enough to compete at this level.
 

Willrust

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Matt Garza for:

C.J. Edwards

1 of either Ryan Rua or Rougned Odor

& throw in Alex Claudio
 

CSF77

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Matt Garza for:

C.J. Edwards

1 of either Ryan Rua or Rougned Odor

& throw in Alex Claudio

Edwards is an interesting arm. I'll give ya that one.

Ryan Rua has 28 HR's but another RH hitting IF. Rather add in on the Cubs side to get Joey Gallo who hits from the left side to balance out all of the potential RH sluggers developing up.

But that is getting into a return that creates some buzz.
 

patg006

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Heyman tweets Orioles no longer talking to cubs about Garza. Asking price too high for them.
 

nwfisch

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I'll share the post I just made on Facebook.

[h=5]Even though I understand what Theo Epstein and co are trying to build for the Cubs, I think trading Matt Garza would be a huge step backwards. At some point the Cubs have to start using their talent to acquire MLB wins, not building the A-AAA levels. I'm not privy to the offers they're receiving for Garza, but as a GM, I would want to be blown away by a host of top prospects with high ceilings and limited floors for a solid #2 starter. Just watching the games lately it seems these players are finally starting to come together, and that the Cubs are only a piece or two away from contending for the division. That said, I still hope for the best for the Cubs, even though the best may not be what I want.[/h]
 

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I'll share the post I just made on Facebook.

[h=5]Even though I understand what Theo Epstein and co are trying to build for the Cubs, I think trading Matt Garza would be a huge step backwards. At some point the Cubs have to start using their talent to acquire MLB wins, not building the A-AAA levels. I'm not privy to the offers they're receiving for Garza, but as a GM, I would want to be blown away by a host of top prospects with high ceilings and limited floors for a solid #2 starter. Just watching the games lately it seems these players are finally starting to come together, and that the Cubs are only a piece or two away from contending for the division. That said, I still hope for the best for the Cubs, even though the best may not be what I want.[/h]

I would feel that way if they were talking a out trading Shark or Travis Wood.

But with Garzas age and his injury history I don't think he is a great long term fit.
 

dabynsky

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I don't understand why we are talking extension with Jeff, but not with Garza.

They are almost as same age, so the whole idea of him being too old applies to Jeff to.

And Garza has some killer stuff, threw the no hitter.

Re-sign Garza, and heck of a team player.
Years of control, years pitching and injury history are the biggest differences between Matt Garza and Jeff Samardzija. Trading Garza makes sense to me depending on the return. My expectations have been low on a return for a while which is why I have advocated for resigning Garza. However, if a team surprises with an offer I won't complain about dealing Garza.
 

CSF77

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This has more to do with the Ricketts' willing to pay. I can see them paying 15 mil avg for 4 years tops. I believe that 6 years is what Garza's camp wants.
 

dabynsky

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This has more to do with the Ricketts' willing to pay. I can see them paying 15 mil avg for 4 years tops. I believe that 6 years is what Garza's camp wants.

I would be hesistant to give six years to Matt Garza. I think he is hardly as injury prone as some make him out to be, but six years is a lot of risk in a deal for any arm.
 

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