Garza To Rangers -- Olt, Edwards, Grimm to Chi (Post 607)

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,406
Liked Posts:
2,813
Location:
San Diego
Most of the farm players who could possibly be future long-term MLBers won't be up until second half of 2014, so that seems to make some sense anyway...meaning that 2014 will look familiar to 2013, except that September 2014 finally sees some of that young talent showing up at Wrigley.

I expect their development to go one year at a time. Baez should have been promoted up to AA at the trade deadline. The 2 guys that were ahead of him in HR's in the FSL were promoted at that point. He is still in Daytona. I expect moves to be happening once a year and near the deadline after the short term players get bumped.

So at SS:

MLB Castro: Going no where
AAA: Fall guy 30 Y/O Donny Murphy See ya
AA A.A. Moved up.
A+ Baez moved up.

They could have done this at the draft. But no they are milking it out.

Why? Because Castro's paycheck is manageable right now. Finanacally it is better for the Ricketts to keep a few year gap between players at the same position vs rushing the next generation up. They are payroll relief.
 

Parade_Rain

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Aug 23, 2012
Posts:
9,995
Liked Posts:
3,624
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Illinois Fighting Illini
I expect their development to go one year at a time. Baez should have been promoted up to AA at the trade deadline. The 2 guys that were ahead of him in HR's in the FSL were promoted at that point. He is still in Daytona. I expect moves to be happening once a year and near the deadline after the short term players get bumped.

So at SS:

MLB Castro: Going no where
AAA: Fall guy 30 Y/O Donny Murphy See ya
AA A.A. Moved up.
A+ Baez moved up.

They could have done this at the draft. But no they are milking it out.

Why? Because Castro's paycheck is manageable right now. Finanacally it is better for the Ricketts to keep a few year gap between players at the same position vs rushing the next generation up. They are payroll relief.
That's an interesting take. So let me ask then, would you say that even though Epstein said this was a 5 year project, they aren't even interesting in winning until at least 2016 and Castro could hit .220 next year and no one in the FO would care?
 

Willrust

New member
Joined:
May 1, 2013
Posts:
442
Liked Posts:
34
So on the major league team I have see nothing to make me believe they are building up a major league team va trade or F/A.

Trade for Travis Wood?
FA signing of Edwin Jackson?
Extension with Rizzo & Castro?
Extension offer to Samardzija?
 

chibears55

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 18, 2013
Posts:
13,554
Liked Posts:
1,915
i had to look twice at the subject of this thread to see if i was in the Matt Garza Rumor thread..


One National League executive predicted that the Cubs' Matt Garza will be the first pitcher traded; he's thought to be eminently available, as the Cubs are not comfortable with his asking price on a potential new contract. The Padres and Dodgers are among the teams pursuing Garza, reported Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports earlier today.

Looks like garza going to be testing The FA market..
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,406
Liked Posts:
2,813
Location:
San Diego
Trade for Travis Wood?
FA signing of Edwin Jackson?
Extension with Rizzo & Castro?
Extension offer to Samardzija?

E. Jaxx was to generate interest to get some season ticket sales.
Covered the extensions. They can get out of them by trading and back filling with depth.

As above. Shark was not as dumb as Castro and Rizzo it appears. He is taking control of his earning potential vs letting the Ricketts' dictate his earning potential.

I covered all of this. Guess you like looking at the surface vs looking at the reasoning behind them.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,406
Liked Posts:
2,813
Location:
San Diego
That's an interesting take. So let me ask then, would you say that even though Epstein said this was a 5 year project, they aren't even interesting in winning until at least 2016 and Castro could hit .220 next year and no one in the FO would care?

Theo was hired to create a farm system and a method to produce talent. If his job was to build a WS team in 5 year then he is doing it wrong.

If after 5 years the system is producing quality talent then he did the job that Tommy paid him to do

If the talent bottoms out and they have to keep signing F/A then he failed.
 

Boobaby1

New member
Joined:
Apr 18, 2013
Posts:
2,236
Liked Posts:
1,180
That's an interesting take. So let me ask then, would you say that even though Epstein said this was a 5 year project, they aren't even interesting in winning until at least 2016 and Castro could hit .220 next year and no one in the FO would care?

The care with Castro is business. You sure as heck don't want another flop of a contract if you are Theo, and you surely would like to trade him for the right piece if it became available. Castro's escalating contract is a concern, and it will be doubly hard to get rid of him the longer he is a Cub, and the longer he doesn't produce.

Did Epstein ever put a timeline on his success if their is one? No!

He left that open as he should. It is fans that are either over anxious, or very patient. His contract is merely a guideline for Rickett's to sit down and discuss with him the overall picture of the Cubs organization. If it looks good at that time, expect the Cubs to give him an extension and start filling gaps with free agents. Some could be elite, but don't expect it anytime soon.
 

dabynsky

Fringe Average Mod
Donator
Joined:
May 17, 2010
Posts:
13,947
Liked Posts:
3,118

czman

Well-known member
Joined:
May 7, 2013
Posts:
2,208
Liked Posts:
542
If they trade Garza by the end of June they defer 1/2 of his contract onto another team. Again follow the money and you understand why they do things the way they do them.

Scott Feldman is costing the Cubs 1 mil per month. They will wait to get the best return. Garza would be a 5 mil savings if they trade him early. 3.42 mil if they wait til the dead line.

Looking at Castro's deal:
13:$5M, 14:$5M, 15:$6M, 16:$7M, 17:$9M, 18:$10M, 19:$11M, 20:$16M club option
Baez A+ Baez AA Baez AAA Baez Rookie can trade out Castro before it gets too expensive.

Rizzo
13:$0.75M, 14:$1.25M, 15:$5M, 16:$5M, 17:$7M, 18:$7M, 19:$11M, 20:$14.5M club option (or $2M buyout due 1/15/20), 21:$14.5M club option (or $2M buyout due 1/15/21)

Vogelbach
13 A 14 A+ 15 AA 16 AAA 17 Rookie right when it starts to escalate....

Those deals were set up that way for a reason. they have a opt out.

Expect the future to be along these lines.

Ownership is going to run at low cost.


If you look at everything through the lens of the Cubs are making every decision based solely on money than that is what you will see. However, that does not make it true. You can rationalize anything if you try hard enough.

The Cubs are still over 100 million a gain and did go out and spend on a FA this season. You say they spent poorly, but that does not change the fact they spent. You can claim it is only for ticket sales. That is pure conjecture though. Like I typed, if all you want to see is money grubbing than that is all you see.

The Cubs have spent money. They have spent a lot on infrastructure. People may disagree, but it is still spending money.

As far as I am concerned they are way behind schedule. I don't like some of the moves they have done. I just don't think we have nearly enough data to say all they care about is money. They stated when they evaluated the team it would take time and that they would build from infrastructure first. That is exactly what they are doing.

Agree or disagree they warned fans. Like I typed I think the team is behind schedule. I don't think they have used their assets very well. Being bad at acquiring talent is different than being only in it for the money. We should not confuse the two.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Boobaby1

New member
Joined:
Apr 18, 2013
Posts:
2,236
Liked Posts:
1,180
Jim Bowden posted a report on the players he thinks the Cubs could acquire for Garza. Bowden thinks RHP Cody Allen and RHP Dylan Baker might be enough from the Indians. The Rangers could send LHP Robbie Ross and IF Drew Robinson while LHP Robbie Erlin and RHP Keyvius Sampson might be a fit from San Diego. As for the Dodgers, Bowden thinks a package of RHP Stephen Fife and RHP Matt Magill might land Garza.

Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer mentioned the importance on Monday of turning short term assets into long term, controllable assets. The players Jim Bowden listed seem to be less than what many think the Cubs could acquire for Matt Garza.

As the Boston Herald reported, the Padres and Red Sox would be good fits for Garza. Both organizations are deeper than the other teams plus the Cubs front office helped build those systems.

And just in case for those that might be wondering which minor league pitcher would likely replace Garza in the rotation. Chris Rusin has been aligned with Garza and makes his next start on Wednesday.

Of the teams and players mentioned, I would have to say that the Padres and Dodgers have the best return for Garza.
 

patg006

New member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
1,413
Liked Posts:
986
Location:
Chicago
Of the teams and players mentioned, I would have to say that the Padres and Dodgers have the best return for Garza.

Read that article, and I gotta say, the cubs would be on the losing side of every suggestion. Most return prospects were damaged goods, and half of the pitchers had shoulder issues. Erlin and Sampson look like the best, but I dont like it.

I understand Bradley nor Skaggs will be in a return for Garza, but I like Dave Holmberg in Arizona's organization. A package around him would be a start.
 

dabears253313

Well-known member
Joined:
Sep 7, 2012
Posts:
4,058
Liked Posts:
1,158
In the end, hopefully these are all just rumors and Matt Garza remains a Chicago Cub.

If they do trade him, they better get something good for him in return considering they gave up a couple of top prospects for him.
 

Boobaby1

New member
Joined:
Apr 18, 2013
Posts:
2,236
Liked Posts:
1,180
Read that article, and I gotta say, the cubs would be on the losing side of every suggestion. Most return prospects were damaged goods, and half of the pitchers had shoulder issues. Erlin and Sampson look like the best, but I dont like it.

I understand Bradley nor Skaggs will be in a return for Garza, but I like Dave Holmberg in Arizona's organization. A package around him would be a start.

Unfortunately, if they don't extend him, this is probably some of the best they will get. I would rather have a couple that have at least started in the bigs versus a throw in college or high school player in next years draft.
 

patg006

New member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
1,413
Liked Posts:
986
Location:
Chicago
In the end, hopefully these are all just rumors and Matt Garza remains a Chicago Cub.

If they do trade him, they better get something good for him in return considering they gave up a couple of top prospects for him.

The best time to have done that was last year, when he had this year as a kicker for more. Teams dont have an extra year going for them contractually, and Garza isnt the cleanest bill of health--lowering his overall return.

I think he can get a top 3-5 prospect package.....nothing elite.
 

SilenceS

Moderator
Staff member
Donator
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
21,829
Liked Posts:
9,038
Five Trades for Matt Garza
By Jim Bowden

Chicago Cubs right-hander Matt Garza might end up being the best starting pitcher dealt at baseball’s July 31 trade deadline.

After beginning the season on the disabled list, Garza has returned to form as a top-of-the-rotation difference-maker. In his past three starts, he’s gone at least seven innings and given up less than a run per game with 23 strikeouts. It’s clear his stuff is all the way back and his command and control is phenomenal. As such so is his trade value.

The Cubs’ front office is concentrating on fixing its pitching in the long-term, and that’s what they’ll focus on in any trade talks for Garza. The preference will be acquiring young starting pitching which is either close to the big leagues or major league ready.

The Cubs match up well with the Cleveland Indians, Texas Rangers, San Diego Padres, Los Angeles Dodgers and Colorado Rockies, as all can offer them major league-ready pitching either in the rotation or the bullpen. Garza’s injury history makes him somewhat of a risk, and perhaps that will temper some the return on Garza the Cubs are hoping for. So here are five trades the Cubs could realistically make for Garza:

1. Cleveland Indians

RHPs Cody Allen and Dylan Baker

The Indians don’t have any young starting pitching to surrender for a rental such as Garza, but they might be willing to sacrifice a significant bullpen arm if they can make a major acquisition for the pennant race. Allen’s velocity is now up to 94-97 mph and his hard 84 mph slider is nasty, with curveball-type tilt. Allen, 24, is striking out more than 10 per nine innings and could replace Kevin Gregg as the Cubs’ closer if Gregg is dealt as expected at the deadline, as well. Baker would be a solid throw-in for the Cubs. Baker was the Indians’ fifth-round draft pick in 2012 and currently has a 3.63 ERA in low Class A. He throws in the mid-90s with a hard slider that doesn’t break much and looks more like a cutter.


2. Texas Rangers

LHP Robbie Ross and IF Drew Robinson

It would be difficult for the Rangers to part with Ross, who’s been an integral part of the Rangers’ bullpen the past two years. However, Garza would be a solid No. 2 starter between ace Yu Darvish and No. 3 Derek Holland and would greatly improve their chances of winning the AL West and advancing in the playoffs.

The Cubs, on the other hand, could put Ross into the rotation -- he started in the minors -- and since he’s not eligible for salary arbitration until 2015, he would fit nicely in their long-term plans. Robinson would be a solid throw-in. He can play second or third and has some gap-to-gap power.


3. San Diego Padres

LHP Robbie Erlin and RHP Keyvius Sampson

Erlin originally was drafted in the third round by the Rangers in 2009. He was included in a 2011 trade deadline deal for setup man Mike Adams, who was one of the best in the business at the time. Erlin had a 5.25 ERA in 12 Triple-A starts this season, but has pitched very well since being promoted to the majors, posting a 3.60 ERA with 12 strikeouts and one walk in 15 innings. His fastball sits 88-91 mph with a slow 12-6 curveball and a solid change.

Sampson has a history of shoulder and elbow injuries but finally appears healthy. This season he has a 3.64 ERA between Double- and Triple-A with almost a strikeout per inning. He has a 90-94 mph fastball with late sink and a solid changeup.


4. Los Angeles Dodgers

RHPs Stephen Fife and Matt Magill

In Fife and Magill, the Dodgers can offer the Cubs two young major league-ready starters, both of whom have had time in the majors this year. Fife’s 88-92 mph fastball highlights a solid four-pitch mix that includes a curveball, changeup and slider. His repertoire doesn’t wow scouts, but he should be a solid back-of-the-rotation starter in time.

Magill’s fastball, however, is 92-95 mph and runs in on right-handed hitters. When his slider has optimum spin, it’s a wipeout pitch. His changeup needs more work to be effective. He has had trouble with control and command at the major league level, but in time he should settle down and improve. He also could become a back-of-the-rotation starter.


5. Colorado Rockies

LHP Drew Pomeranz and C Will Swanner

Pomeranz made his 2013 major league debut Sunday against the Giants after posting a 4.20 ERA in 85 2/3 innings pitched at Triple-A Colorado Springs. He was acquired two years ago for Ubaldo Jimenez, but struggled a year ago finishing with a 4.93 ERA in his first full season with the Rockies. Scouts have told me they like Pomeranz but question if he ever will be effective at Coors Field.

As a result, Colorado might deal him to get an arm like Garza to go with Jorge De La Rosa and Jhoulys Chacin at the top of its rotation. Pomeranz would be quite a coup for the Cubs’ Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer, if they could get him for Garza.

Swanner, 21, is a big-framed, slow-legged catcher with power. He profiles as a backup catcher and first baseman, but because of the power would be a nice throw-in for the Cubs.

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/the-gms ... st?id=7053
 

patg006

New member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
1,413
Liked Posts:
986
Location:
Chicago
^This is what I'm talking about.

Cubs dont win in any of these deals.

Replace Robbie Ross with Cody Buckel and you'd have my attention....
 

Boobaby1

New member
Joined:
Apr 18, 2013
Posts:
2,236
Liked Posts:
1,180
^This is what I'm talking about.

Cubs dont win in any of these deals.

Replace Robbie Ross with Cody Buckel and you'd have my attention....

You better hope the Dodgers get Nalasco. That will aid the Cubs in getting a better return for Garza.
 

WindyCity

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Dec 12, 2011
Posts:
30,816
Liked Posts:
35,414
^This is what I'm talking about.

Cubs dont win in any of these deals.

Replace Robbie Ross with Cody Buckel and you'd have my attention....

Agreed those deals are underwhelming top to bottom.
 

daddies3angels

Is it next year yet?
Donator
Joined:
Apr 17, 2010
Posts:
10,038
Liked Posts:
819
Location:
Peoria IL
if those are type of deals Cubs going to get then im going to puke
 

Top